EFE Rail - Winter 2023 Announcements inc. Southern 'Booster'

[Wickham Green too]

On 13/01/2024 at 10:49, Wickham Green too said:

Gibson 4842B ( Use the black axles trimmed to length ) ...

Do a trial fitting using a Gibson EM gauge axle and wheels with bearings and gear from an EFE wheelset ....... set the back-to back using a gauge and measure the wheel boss face-face distance : this is the length you need to cut the black axles to.  Use this trial axle to establish what spacers you need for axles 1, 3, 4 & 6 : I ended up with one Markits RAXFB23 and one washer per side ( the gear will slide freely on Gibson's 'plain' axles ). File the black axles to length and clean up the ends, fit a gear to the centre of each ( There seems no reason one side has a boss. ), add bearings and spacers then fit the new wheels using a GW Models press or similar.

[Right Away]

1 hour ago, Southern Hobbit said:

Exactly the same problem here, affecting the BR Green version. The 'nearside' wheels 2 and 3 on both bogies were sitting around 0.5mm above the rails, resulting in derailments on a variety of Peco Code 75 points (as others have reported, this is the only loco that derails). I have sent it back for repair, as feel that the mods are just masking an underlying problem.

 

It often follows that the ratio of satisfied customers to those of whom are having issues with a product/service, the former are sometimes less likely to relate (not bother) on their positive experiences, whereas, the latter will more readily and understandably expostulate on any grievance.

Once the current (no pun) orders for the EFE “Booster” have all been received, it would be interesting to note exactly the scale of the problem of poor wheel alignment which is bringing so much furore. One could hope that it is a “one-off” issue, affecting a minority of examples but the seeds of doubt have been sown. 

 

I have to say, I am extremely satisfied with my electric loco; looks good, runs sweetly and stays on the road, but I would be certain to resist the purchase of a further release until this problem is addressed.

 

[Wickham Green too]

23 hours ago, Wickham Green too said:

Well, mine came from Derails and isn't a derailer ! ...

Spoke too soon ......... while it ran fine on 00 wheels with their deep flanges, the lack of any flexibility is problematic in EM - and no doubt worse in P4. I've removed the two-point support from one end ( No.1 end, of course ) and fitted 30 thou of packing around the bogie pivot ( and a 10 thou shim one side at No.2 end to level it up ) ........ seems to have done the trick.

[JSpencer]

Mine has arrived, perfectly intact but is a derailer. One bogie is perfect sits fine with plenty of room, the other insists on having one side touching constantly the body. Frustrating this really.

 

So:

Option A: Kernow have none left, so if I send it back for replacement, there won't be any and equally how do I get a refund for import charges?

Option B: is to see if the problem can be addressed like above. 

I'm a bit worried though, if the chassic block is distorted, which is basically a mazak casting, how did it get distorted?

 

On the funny side, the post office kept telling that I would have a medical delivery soon. "Your medical delivery will arrive today."

Someone must have interpreted "Booster" as being a vaccine or something!

Doctor: "have you had your booster?"

Me: "oh yes a 20002 variant...."

 

 

[simon b]

I'm convinced it's the bogie castings that are warped, not the chassis. Waiting for a reply from rails on what to do with mine.

[Gwiwer]

Kernow has offered to take a look at my derailer but has added that because it is a sell-out anything they cannot repair would require the loco to be returned to Bachmann.  If that occurred I might be looking for a refund rather than wait just in case.  Which would be a shame.

 

Most of the issues seem to relate to the green 20002 so far as I can determine around the various clubs, forums and other traps.  I wonder if this might trace back to a production issue with this batch.  

[Kaput]

Mine (BR Green 20002) does seem to have a few wheels not quite touching the ground but so far its had no derailing issues (code 100 settrack).

Only thing i've really noticed is the bogies don't always look like they've re-centered after curves and the body was being bowed outwards a bit by the windows in the middle (filed them down but its not 100%, there really should have been a slot in the chassis molding for them).

 

I'm going to assume the issues being mostly noticed on the green 20002 is simply down to it being the most popular.

[railcar1]

Mine is the black one. Same  problem,only 8 of 12 wheels touching the track!

In my opinion the chassis  casting is fine as are the bogies generally speaking. 

The fault I think  lies with  the chassis  support spigots on the bogies not being the same hight ,causing a lean to the left.This applies to both bogies. 

Inserting 0.5mm shims between the  support spigots and chassis gets all wheels  level.

[JSpencer]

My one is BR black. The good news is I have managed to fix it.

So no e-mails, no trip to the post office, no reclamations etc....

 

What did I do?

Above we saw someone adding a shim, I did the opposite.

 

Removing the chassis is very easy. Pull out the entire buffer assembly (i;e buffer + spring + shank) for all 4 buffers. This is better than some Heljan models whereby only the buffer and spring comes out (which has a risk of loosing the spring).

Undo the 4 screws. The body slides off easily.

 

I then looked at the rocking side to side play of each bogie. The good end had about 2mm up and down movement on both sides. The bad end was about 3mm on one side and less than 1 mm on the other.

On the top of the bogie, there are 2 plastic wings (support spigots in other parlance) which limit this movement with the chassis above it.

 

One option would be to add a shim and limit the movement on the 3mm side to just 1mm. I felt that would be tight.

So I gently bent down the wing on the tight side with a big screw driver.

I also filed just the top, which seemed to have a burr. The bogie righted itself.

 

Now all wheels touch the rails and the model runs perfectly fine. Well done Graham, Kernow and EFE.

Some picks below of the steps and also a few picks with the Bullied diesel.

Edit: I wonder if the diesels and electrics ever met ⁉️

 

Edited January 16 by JSpencer

[John Isherwood]

17 minutes ago, JSpencer said:

My one is BR black. The good news is I have managed to fix it.

So no e-mails, no trip to the post office, no reclamations etc....

 

What did I do?

Above we saw someone adding a shim, I did the opposite.

 

Removing the chassis is very easy. Pull out the entire buffer assembly (i;e buffer + spring + shank) for all 4 buffers. This is better than some Heljan models whereby only the buffer and spring comes out (which has a risk of loosing the spring).

Undo the 4 screws. The body slides off easily.

 

I then looked at the rocking side to side play of each bogie. The good end had about 2mm up and down movement on both sides. The bad end was about 3mm on one side and less than 1 mm on the other.

On the top of the bogie, there are 2 plastic wings (support spigots in other parlance) which limit this movement with the chassis above it.

 

One option would be to add a shim and limit the movement on the 3mm side to just 1mm. I felt that would be tight.

So I gently bent down the wing on the tight side with a big screw driver.

I also filed just the top, which seemed to have a burr. The bogie righted itself.

 

Now all wheels touch the rails and the model runs perfectly fine. Well done Graham, Kernow and EFE.

Some picks below of the steps and also a few picks with the Bullied diesel.

 

 

 

Why designers of long items of RTR bogied motive power (or rolling stock) don't design on the three-legged stool principle is beyond me!

 

One end - two body bearers onto the bogie sideframes (but with some slop); the other end a simple central pivot (reasonably loose).

 

That way, the two side bearers give lateral stability but allow longitudinal pivoting; the simple pivot at the other end allows movement in all dimensions.

 

Result - both bogies can follow the undulations of the track.

 

CJI.

[railcar1]

Often pondered that one myself CJL.

[GreenGiraffe22]

Delivered today along with the wagons 😁 had to keep wiping it between photos, been out in 0'c in my storage unit all afternoon and the body kept condensating. Can only upload 2 pics anyway as the photos are 4mb each 

 

Edit: is there a front and back end or are they identical? 

 

 

Edited January 15 by GreenGiraffe22

[simon b]

1 hour ago, cctransuk said:

 

Why designers of long items of RTR bogied motive power (or rolling stock) don't design on the three-legged stool principle is beyond me!

 

One end - two body bearers onto the bogie sideframes (but with some slop); the other end a simple central pivot (reasonably loose).

 

That way, the two side bearers give lateral stability but allow longitudinal pivoting; the simple pivot at the other end allows movement in all dimensions.

 

Result - both bogies can follow the undulations of the track.

 

CJI.

 

1 hour ago, cctransuk said:

 

Why designers of long items of RTR bogied motive power (or rolling stock) don't design on the three-legged stool principle is beyond me!

 

One end - two body bearers onto the bogie sideframes (but with some slop); the other end a simple central pivot (reasonably loose).

 

That way, the two side bearers give lateral stability but allow longitudinal pivoting; the simple pivot at the other end allows movement in all dimensions.

 

Result - both bogies can follow the undulations of the track.

 

CJI.

Most of the old lima models were like that, worked well.

[Jack P]

7 hours ago, Wickham Green too said:

Spoke too soon ......... while it ran fine on 00 wheels with their deep flanges, the lack of any flexibility is problematic in EM - and no doubt worse in P4. I've removed the two-point support from one end ( No.1 end, of course ) and fitted 30 thou of packing around the bogie pivot ( and a 10 thou shim one side at No.2 end to level it up ) ........ seems to have done the trick.

 

Any photos of the finished article? (or as you went along?)

[Right Away]

11 hours ago, JSpencer said:

….

 

 

 

 

 

“Three EFE assembly staff on vacation in UK succumb to the wrath of modeller dressed as railway employee.”

 

             Seriously though, thanks for your detailed workaround. Hopefully we’ll all get there in the end.

[Wickham Green too]

11 hours ago, GreenGiraffe22 said:

... Edit: is there a front and back end or are they identical? ...

When looking at the 'A' side ( the plain one ), No.1 end is to your left ................... but operationally they were fully reversible.

 

9 hours ago, Jack P said:

Any photos of the finished article? (or as you went along?)

I hope to get 'BRITISH RAILWAYS' lettering on it today - then I'll consider it finished.

[JSpencer]

And here is mine pulling 2 trains. The first a rake of Maunsells, the second a fitted freight (cattle wagons and vans). 

 

Runs really well.

 

 

[simon b]

2 hours ago, JSpencer said:

And here is mine pulling 2 trains. The first a rake of Maunsells, the second a fitted freight (cattle wagons and vans). 

 

Runs really well.

 

 

 

Looks great, especially with the rake of green coaches behind. At the risk of a thread divert are there more pics of your layout anywhere? 

[JSpencer]

9 minutes ago, simon b said:

 

Looks great, especially with the rake of green coaches behind. At the risk of a thread divert are there more pics of your layout anywhere? 

 

 

Thank you very much. No I've never really done any post about the layout itself.

Here is a DCC video I posted on Youtube several years back. Since then I've added the overhead wire and 3rd rails (seen in the photos). I've plans to add an upper circuit at some point in the next year or so.

 

 

Edited January 16 by JSpencer

[GreenGiraffe22]

Pleased to report no issues at all, at least on my outer loop 😁

 

 

Edited January 17 by GreenGiraffe22
Link didn't embed properly

[Fair Oak Junction]

4 minutes ago, GreenGiraffe22 said:

Pleased to report no issues at all, at least on my outer loop 😁

 

Looks right at home! 👌

[GreenGiraffe22]

I Tweeted a video of it pulling 10 carriages underneath, just for a bit of fun, problem is when I try and run that many carriages, whatever order I have them in, the extra weight always seems to make the leading bogie derail of whatever carriages is 2nd in the rake. Physics I guess 

[Wickham Green too]

Something to do with damnednamic couplings I'd guess !

[GreenGiraffe22]

37 minutes ago, Wickham Green too said:

Something to do with damnednamic couplings I'd guess !

 

I do really like the magnetic ones that came with the open third, will have to get some more of them 

[JSpencer]

3 hours ago, GreenGiraffe22 said:

I Tweeted a video of it pulling 10 carriages underneath, just for a bit of fun, problem is when I try and run that many carriages, whatever order I have them in, the extra weight always seems to make the leading bogie derail of whatever carriages is 2nd in the rake. Physics I guess 

 

I used to suffer the same problem. A coach would suddenly pop off for no apparent reason.

If the coaches have a close coupling system (V shaped slot that allows the coupling to move side to side), on larger trains, you need bar like couplings that lock the couplings between coaches into a bar like position between them. 

 

Things like these if you never uncouple the vehicles (other makes available):

https://www.accurascale.com/en-eu/products/fixed-dellner-coupling-bars-4-couplings?_pos=5&_sid=7301d8a52&_ss=r

 

or magnetic:

https://www.accurascale.com/en-eu/products/magnetic-dellner-coupling-pack-8-couplings?_pos=1&_sid=7301d8a52&_ss=r

 

or mechanical:

https://www.kernowmodelrailcentre.com/p/28425/40271-Roco-Close-Coupler

 

These systems also work if stock is being pushed by a loco (like a class 73 with a 4-TC set).