Blefuscu Posted May 2 Share Posted May 2 I'm going to model some coaching stock. For the time being I'm only looking at the class 55/47 services between Kings X and Edinburgh, around 1980. From the notes I made a while ago I think I need a rake of SO-SO-SO-SO-RKB-RUO-FO-FK-BSO, or SO-SO-SO-SO-RB-SO-FK-BG, or perhaps, TSO-TSO-TSO-TSO-RB-FO-FO-BG Admittedly, my notes could have been clearer... Armed with a copy of Longworth's Coaching Stock I have found the diagrams for most of those, and some numbers for coaches that would have been in use at this time. The numbers generally checkout with coaches I've seen on my Flickr trawls.. but, oftenly, one can only make out the numbers on the first coach. SO AD203 Second Open Mk2a E5229 -E5241 TSO AC206 Second Open MK2a E5257 - E5300 TSO SC209 Second Open Mk2d E5616 - E5743 BSO AE204 Brake Standard Open Mk2a E9426-E9433 BSO AE206 Brake Standard Open Mk2d E9479, E9485, E9488, E9489, E9491 - E9495 FK AA109 (AA105?) First Corridor Mk2D E13361-E13378 FO AD105 First Open Mk2D E3170-E3188 RB AJ402 Buffet/Restaurant E1661, E1663-E1699, E1714, RUO Diagram 61? E1959-E1991 RKB AH502 Buffet/Kitchen E1512-E1526 BG NE5013A Brake Van E81573 - E81583, E81478 - E81497, also photos of E81401, E81266, E81460, E81400 Good grief, it took quite a while to pick that lot out of my notes, and I had to go back to the book on a few occasions as I think I had the wrong diagrams printed out for some of these. I'm still not 100% confident. However, (as ever - undeterred by lack of confidence!), I've made a start with Second Open Mk2a. 7 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bradfordbuffer Posted May 2 Share Posted May 2 5 minutes ago, Blefuscu said: I'm going to model some coaching stock. For the time being I'm only looking at the class 55/47 services between Kings X and Edinburgh, around 1980. From the notes I made a while ago I think I need a rake of SO-SO-SO-SO-RKB-RUO-FO-FK-BSO, or SO-SO-SO-SO-RB-SO-FK-BG, or perhaps, TSO-TSO-TSO-TSO-RB-FO-FO-BG Admittedly, my notes could have been clearer... Armed with a copy of Longworth's Coaching Stock I have found the diagrams for most of those, and some numbers for coaches that would have been in use at this time. The numbers generally checkout with coaches I've seen on my Flickr trawls.. but, oftenly, one can only make out the numbers on the first coach. SO AD203 Second Open Mk2a E5229 -E5241 TSO AC206 Second Open MK2a E5257 - E5300 TSO SC209 Second Open Mk2d E5616 - E5743 BSO AE204 Brake Standard Open Mk2a E9426-E9433 BSO AE206 Brake Standard Open Mk2d E9479, E9485, E9488, E9489, E9491 - E9495 FK AA109 (AA105?) First Corridor Mk2D E13361-E13378 FO AD105 First Open Mk2D E3170-E3188 RB AJ402 Buffet/Restaurant E1661, E1663-E1699, E1714, RUO Diagram 61? E1959-E1991 RKB AH502 Buffet/Kitchen E1512-E1526 BG NE5013A Brake Van E81573 - E81583, E81478 - E81497, also photos of E81401, E81266, E81460, E81400 Good grief, it took quite a while to pick that lot out of my notes, and I had to go back to the book on a few occasions as I think I had the wrong diagrams printed out for some of these. I'm still not 100% confident. However, (as ever - undeterred by lack of confidence!), I've made a start with Second Open Mk2a. Oh boy can feel another payment to cults! If there going that way.?....or should I say YOU WILL PUT IT ON CULTS...😃 G Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blefuscu Posted May 2 Author Share Posted May 2 6 minutes ago, bradfordbuffer said: Oh boy can feel another payment to cults! If there going that way.?....or should I say YOU WILL PUT IT ON CULTS...😃 G That's the intention... I think they'll be cheaper than the 313/55 because I can reuse a lot of the coachwork between models and just cut/add windows and roof vents etc to it. In theory. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bradfordbuffer Posted May 2 Share Posted May 2 8 minutes ago, Blefuscu said: That's the intention... I think they'll be cheaper than the 313/55 because I can reuse a lot of the coachwork between models and just cut/add windows and roof vents etc to it. In theory. Love it! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bradfordbuffer Posted May 2 Share Posted May 2 I'm shaking my bottles of resin as I speak!...there is some n gauge GUV and newspaper version on cults I'm using body with a etched brass side in 3mm might be useful to yourself cracking underframe in resin 2 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blefuscu Posted May 2 Author Share Posted May 2 Thanks, I hadn't seen that one. I might need some GUVs myself at some point too! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bradfordbuffer Posted May 2 Share Posted May 2 14 minutes ago, Blefuscu said: Thanks, I hadn't seen that one. I might need some GUVs myself at some point too! https://cults3d.com/en/users/davidjohnhope/3d-models Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blefuscu Posted May 2 Author Share Posted May 2 7 hours ago, bradfordbuffer said: I'm shaking my bottles of resin as I speak!... This is going to take a while, so don't be too vigorous or you'll get cramp! I haven't touched a vertex since posting that image... I've been looking at photo's of the gutters all evening, and other minutia, instead. Mostly the gutting though! As far as I can tell, from mk2b onwards the roof has a wrap around guttering, and the 2a doesn't. To make matter worse I found an image of a 55 pulling out of Doncaster with a rake comprised entirely of mk1 coaches in 1980. I'm already modelling the mk1 RB and BG, so I should probably do those coaches too. I can see this getting out of control... Accuracscale have good images of the underneath of their 2b and 2c models... but I expect they will differ a bit from the 2a and 2d I'm doing. I know some of the aircon stuff goes down there. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bradfordbuffer Posted May 2 Share Posted May 2 51 minutes ago, Blefuscu said: This is going to take a while, so don't be too vigorous or you'll get cramp! I haven't touched a vertex since posting that image... I've been looking at photo's of the gutters all evening, and other minutia, instead. Mostly the gutting though! As far as I can tell, from mk2b onwards the roof has a wrap around guttering, and the 2a doesn't. To make matter worse I found an image of a 55 pulling out of Doncaster with a rake comprised entirely of mk1 coaches in 1980. I'm already modelling the mk1 RB and BG, so I should probably do those coaches too. I can see this getting out of control... Accuracscale have good images of the underneath of their 2b and 2c models... but I expect they will differ a bit from the 2a and 2d I'm doing. I know some of the aircon stuff goes down there. C to the left a to right...taken on wensledale railway last year...when next in loft will dig out some old printed photos of underframe on mk2s at Carnforth 1 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blefuscu Posted May 3 Author Share Posted May 3 Thanks! Those are cracking photos, really useful! Initially, I was intending to skip over b & c, but it turns out as I'm becoming aware of these differences I might as well try and fill in the gaps, even if I don't use them myself. That book on mk2 coaches would also be really useful, but it's too expensive for me. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bradfordbuffer Posted May 3 Share Posted May 3 21 minutes ago, Blefuscu said: Thanks! Those are cracking photos, really useful! Initially, I was intending to skip over b & c, but it turns out as I'm becoming aware of these differences I might as well try and fill in the gaps, even if I don't use them myself. That book on mk2 coaches would also be really useful, but it's too expensive for me. Is that the Harris mk2 book +100 quid for 2nd hand ... Hear is a out side the box thought....I'll chip in 20quid need 4 more like minded individuals we get the mk2 stl files when ready? In return for 'research donation' To my mind I will never be able to draw the cad but can cook the files in oven at home and for us minority scales it's investing in the future of my own hobby! If you don't want to go down that route it's fine....it does feel a bit like prostitution but Hay ho! Any one else in?🦻 Blefuscu ....rm message me as still unable to send via rm message 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blefuscu Posted May 3 Author Share Posted May 3 2 hours ago, bradfordbuffer said: +100 quid for 2nd hand ... That's the one! Thanks for the suggestion, I only really mentioned it because I knew it would come up at some point. Not that I would say no to a copy, but I have all the BR diagrams, and there are quite a few exterior images around (now that I'm getting slightly better at identifying them) so I think I'll get away without it. If I were really stuck, a trip out to a surviving mk2a would be better value... Might be a different story if I were working in a larger scale, or thinking about the interior. That said, in a very direct way, you and other people are already contributing to my 'research' when you buy my .stl files off cults. Cults totally paid to get the 313 running. There's currently enough in the kitty for the book... but I still need waterslide decals made up for the 313, not to mention a load of plywood and some track at some point, and my printer died last month so that's pushed everything down the list. This month's a bit quiet but it usually brings in around £70 a month, which, LCD screens aside, usually keeps the project ticking over. 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blefuscu Posted May 3 Author Share Posted May 3 3 hours ago, bradfordbuffer said: rm message me as still unable to send via rm message I can't seem to send messages either... I can't even see the option to send one. Nor can I find any settings regarding direct messages either - so I'm stumped there. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bradfordbuffer Posted May 3 Share Posted May 3 1 hour ago, Blefuscu said: I can't seem to send messages either... I can't even see the option to send one. Nor can I find any settings regarding direct messages either - so I'm stumped there. Hope I'm not attempting to tell you how to suck eggs....apologies if I am....but I did not know until some one showed me! Hope they come in correct order Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blefuscu Posted May 3 Author Share Posted May 3 1 hour ago, bradfordbuffer said: Hope I'm not attempting to tell you how to suck eggs....apologies if I am....but I did not know until some one showed me! No problem... it's useful to see what your screen looks like. I can see the problem now, I have no envelope next to my bell. I don't think my forum account has any kind of mail functionality, and I don't see a way to turn it on. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blefuscu Posted May 3 Author Share Posted May 3 I've sent a message to admin... 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blefuscu Posted May 7 Author Share Posted May 7 A little bit of progress on the mk2a TSO this weekend... None of the handrails will be on the final STL, they are just markers for the wire holes. 5 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flood Posted May 7 Share Posted May 7 The rakes with the RKB and RUO restaurant coaches were superseded by HSTs from 1978 and think that only the York semi-fasts were running as loco hauled from 1980 (not sure about trains to Cleethorpes or Hull or Bradford). Prior to 1980 the Eastern also had Mk2F FO and TSO coaches but these were allocated away during 1979. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blefuscu Posted May 7 Author Share Posted May 7 1 hour ago, Flood said: The rakes with the RKB and RUO restaurant coaches were superseded by HSTs from 1978 and think that only the York semi-fasts were running as loco hauled from 1980 (not sure about trains to Cleethorpes or Hull or Bradford). Prior to 1980 the Eastern also had Mk2F FO and TSO coaches but these were allocated away during 1979. Thanks, I didn't make a note of my sources ( I think it may have been the LNER forum? or here even?) but I had noted the RKB/RUO rake was 1978... which would make sense. I just hadn't realised they stopped then. I guess the moment I introduce the HST it becomes invalid then, so I might put those two on the back burner... or I slip backwards a couple of years. I've just remembered that I have a copy of 1980 Coaching Stock, I think that's where I picked up on them being likely Mk2D. You post gave me pause for thought regarding the quality of my original notes, and I've had a look at the 1980 ECML carriage workings. I don't pretend to find these documents easy reading... but I think I've found a mk2a rake BSO-SO-SO-SO-RBR-SO-FK , and a mk2d/f rake SO-SO-SO-SO-RKB-SO-FK-BG that would look plausible? Ultimately, I suppose, I only need to convince myself that it looks right - but i'm enjoying the research. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flood Posted May 7 Share Posted May 7 (edited) Yeh I should have stated that the RKB/RUO rakes started to be replaced from 1978 and that some services would have kept certainly the RKB coaches until enough HSTs had been delivered. Once the Mk2D TSOT coaches were delivered from 1980 to early 1981 the York semi-fasts used these instead of an RBR so the whole rake, apart from the BG, would have been air-con stock. For example: Copyright Keith Long on Flickr Edited May 8 by Flood 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blefuscu Posted May 8 Author Share Posted May 8 9 hours ago, Flood said: Once the Mk2D TSOT coaches were delivered from 1980 to early 1981 the York semi-fasts used these instead of an RBR so the whole rake, apart from the BG, would have been air-con stock. That's good to know... air-con stock is easier to print too. I like the mk2d rakes with the RBR in the middle though Something that confused me regarding the carriage workings was the reference to SO's throughout the document - yet the coaching stock book and Hugh Longworths book both suggest SO's were pretty thin on the ground at this point, so I'm assuming TSO's were used there? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flood Posted May 8 Share Posted May 8 (edited) 4 hours ago, Blefuscu said: That's good to know... air-con stock is easier to print too. I like the mk2d rakes with the RBR in the middle though Something that confused me regarding the carriage workings was the reference to SO's throughout the document - yet the coaching stock book and Hugh Longworths book both suggest SO's were pretty thin on the ground at this point, so I'm assuming TSO's were used there? The use of TSO or SO seems to have depended on the Region. The Eastern seems to have preferred SO which is slightly strange as the LNER came up with the Tourist Third/Second Open designation for 2+2 seating in the first place. One other design of Eastern Region coach you missed was the BFK. The following were certainly Eastern Region until renumbered for POIS in 1983/84: Mk2A BFK: 14088-90, 14092-94, 14098 Mk2D BFK: 14143-46, 14148-50, 14153-55, 14158, 14161 Edited May 8 by Flood 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blefuscu Posted May 8 Author Share Posted May 8 2 hours ago, Flood said: The use of TSO or SO seems to have depended on the Region. The Eastern seems to have preferred SO which is slightly strange as the LNER came up with the Tourist Third/Second Open designation for 2+2 seating in the first place. One other design of Eastern Region coach you missed was the BFK. The following were certainly Eastern Region until renumbered for POIS in 1983/84: Mk2A BFK: 14088-90, 14092-94, 14098 Mk2D BFK: 14143-46, 14148-50, 14153-55, 14158, 14161 Thanks again, that's really useful. I'll add a BFK to the list. I'm still a bit confused about the SOs. I can only find 11 Mk2 SO's E5229-38, E5249, and no Mk2A or Mk2D Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flood Posted May 8 Share Posted May 8 5 hours ago, Blefuscu said: Thanks again, that's really useful. I'll add a BFK to the list. I'm still a bit confused about the SOs. I can only find 11 Mk2 SO's E5229-38, E5249, and no Mk2A or Mk2D The start of the Eastern Region marshalling book states the following: So according to this a TSO has 64 seats and everything else is an SO. As Mk2B, Mk2C and Mk2D TSOs had only 62 seats then the Eastern Region book classes them as SO stock. As an air-con rake could have had either Mk2D or Mk2F TSO stock (before the Mk2Fs were reallocated) then they had to state the coach type with the lower of the two seat quantities. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blefuscu Posted May 10 Author Share Posted May 10 On 08/05/2024 at 23:09, Flood said: everything else is an SO. Ah, I see now! Thanks again. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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