Hornby Class J50 0-6-0 'creaking'

[wasdavetheroad]

I recently bought a 'new' Hornby Class J50 R3046. After running in I like the performance powered through the track using 16Kh PWM on a 3amp radio controlled receiver. However when running forward there is an intermittent creaking noise, yes, definitely a creaking noise.

 

Anyone any idea what the cause could be?

[34theletterbetweenB&D]

I would associate a creak with vibration of a thin metal section, most likely the coupling rods, excited by a very slight bind on a crankpin or rod joint. Try applying a dab of light oil to one crankpin or rod joint in sequence, with a test run between each application. If that kills the creak, then the last location oiled indicates the rod section on which there is slight tightness. Of course, if you have already oiled around, then maybe a pick up wiper excited on the wheelback, try powdered graphite for 'killing' this to find the source.

 

I am rather envious as steam locos genuinely creaked at low speed, especially on tight curves. I'd like my Hornby J50s to creak...

[wasdavetheroad]

Thanks, to add to my confusion I ran the loco yesterday after the recommended lubrication. Even with the the body removed it still creaked!. I will try the powdered graphite. 

 

I don't like the NEM couplings on this loco. A loose fit in the pocket has them drooping all over the place and having the fishtail pocket as part of the chassis does not help. I managed a fix by 'borrowing' the NEM pockets from a Bachmann wagon and filing down the fishtails . So much for standardisation between manufacturers.

 

At least my Sentinel 0-6-0 runs really well despite the bad press it received. So does the cute Hornby J94 with a small amount of noise, apparently I  should try re-aligning the motor. They all handle my HO Kato insulfrogs at low speed though.

[34theletterbetweenB&D]

26 minutes ago, wasdavetheroad said:

I managed a fix by 'borrowing' the NEM pockets from a Bachmann wagon and filing down the fishtails . So much for standardisation between manufacturers.

That's my standard recourse to deal with 'droopy and falls out' tendencies of Hornby's coupler mounts, having long ago standardised on Bachmann's items. I regularly laugh at complaints that their coupler spares are unavailable: none of the other brands even bother AFAICS...

[wasdavetheroad]

I tried the powdered graphite and it made no difference. The loco is quieter on the rolling road but both there and on the track the creaking persists when the loco is moving forward. It does not syncronise with the wheel rotation and not on the same parts of the track either. What is left, the gears and worm?

 

I do have a shunting loco that works, an ancient black Lima Class 08 with a CD motor and planty of room for a battery. No hesitation over points and can maintain  a low speed of 5mph which is good enough for me. I really want a steam shunter for my Westhaven (fiddle) yard. I have another Lima Class 08 and a Strathpepper CD conversion kit. Maybe I could botch up an outside framed pannier or saddle tank but i don't think there ever was such a 0-6-0 loco.

[34theletterbetweenB&D]

5 hours ago, wasdavetheroad said:

Maybe I could botch up an outside framed pannier or saddle tank but i don't think there ever was such a 0-6-0 loco.

No trouble there, You have the last of the GNR 0-6-0T designs in the J50, you can have a Stirling rebuild of one of the outside frame 0-6-0s bought by Sturrock as freight power from Hawthorns, Kirtsons, Sharp Stewart, etc. from the mid 1850s; Stirling remodeled these as neat ouside frame open cab saddletanks, clear ancestors in appearance of the final GNR 0-6-0ST from Ivatt, the LNER J52 'Humpy'. 

[34theletterbetweenB&D]

On 12/05/2024 at 16:13, wasdavetheroad said:

I tried the powdered graphite and it made no difference. The loco is quieter on the rolling road but both there and on the track the creaking persists when the loco is moving forward. It does not syncronise with the wheel rotation and not on the same parts of the track either. What is left, the gears and worm?

It's difficult without actually observing it in reality and having a lot of tinker time to see what alters or prevents the creaking sound  beyond 'only when going forward'.

 

However, having had some thinking time this: "quieter on the rolling road", offers some information, essentially that the sound is likely to be coming from a wheelset and the parts directly attached or in contact with that wheelset. At this stage my inclination would be to put the model on a continuous circuit and run it for several hours; essentially 'as long as it takes for the sound to go away'.

[wasdavetheroad]

Hours of running later and still creaking. I stripped the loco down this morning and checked everything but nothing obvious, except when running slowly on the smooth test track the right hand middle wheel, the one with the gear, kicked upward a fraction of a mm at random intervals not synchronised with the wheel rotation. The left hand wheel remained in contact with the track.

[Flying Pig]

On 12/05/2024 at 08:36, wasdavetheroad said:

So much for standardisation between manufacturers.

 

UK rtr manufacturers aren't great at conforming when there are published standards and AFAIK there isn't one for the fishtail. It resembles NEM 363 but that is meant as an alternative coupler mount for restricted spaces not a secondary mount for the NEM 362 pocket.

[34theletterbetweenB&D]

On 17/05/2024 at 16:03, wasdavetheroad said:

...the right hand middle wheel, the one with the gear, kicked upward a fraction of a mm at random intervals...

It'll be pseudo-random!

 

Try the loco with the rods removed.

If the kick still occurs then it's probably a defect on the idler gear (likely acting on the left side of the axle gear to lift the right side wheel).

If the kick is eliminated with the rods off then I am all out of ideas... A simple  coupling rod induced problem (ditto such as wiper on wheelback, momentary fouling of rotating part on fixed structure) has to be at regular intervals.