16t mineral wagons, Dapol vs parkside

[WilltheMechanist]

which is generally considered the better OO gauge kit?

Edited August 19, 2024 by WilltheMechanist

[Mark Forrest]

The Dapol originates from a very old Airfix kit.  While it's generally fairly accurate and goes together well, it includes a few compromises (the door hinges) and errors (the brake gear).  It is relatively simple to correct these though.  Have a look at photos of the real thing to see the difference.

The Parkside is (in my opinion) the better of the two - at least in unfitted guise, the vac braked version uses a 10' wheelbase underframe which isn't correct.

[Enfys_Rainbow]

Having built many of both, the Parkside kit is the better option however the Dapol (Airfix) is easier to build.

 

Both look fine though and for it's age, the Dapol kit is a cracker!

 

Matt

[John Isherwood]

3 hours ago, Mark Forrest said:

The Parkside is (in my opinion) the better of the two - at least in unfitted guise, the vac braked version uses a 10' wheelbase underframe which isn't correct.

 

The Parkside 16'6'' / 10'0'' chassis. would be spot-on for a 1/007 20T PIG IRON, though!

 

John Isherwood.

[Fat Controller]

2 hours ago, John Isherwood said:

 

The Parkside 16'6'' / 10'0'' chassis. would be spot-on for a 1/007 20T PIG IRON, though!

 

John Isherwood.

My recollection is that the 10' mineral is (correctly) 17'6" over headstocks .I believe the MSV ore tippler  is  16' 6" over head-stocks.; I've used some  for 4-wheeled coil wagons.

[Flying Pig]

Rumney models list a 16’6” x 9’ BR clasp brake underframe for mineral wagons.  Is that currently the only way to get one of these wagons?

[DCB]

As rolling stock I wouldn't use either they do tend to disintegrate in service, the axle guards spread and let the wheels fall out, as designed at least the Airfix has a good solid chassis supporting the coupling bosses, but downside is the later Dapol modes  seem to  have less well moulded parts and the chassis are hard to build "Square"  without much fettling. putting the wheels at an angle to the track.  There isn't much that can be done about the axleguards but a metal strip connecting both couplings will stop the couplings ripping off the body.  I did have some static Airfix 16T minerals but they made the overscale length RTR SWB opens look silly so I quietly withdrew them.

I have several Parkside bodies on RTR chassis, and  also Airfix Bake Van bodies on RTR chassis but my experience is no plastic kit chassis stands up to being used in trains for very long

[WilltheMechanist]

Thanks for the responses.

I should mention these are for use on live load coal trains, if that makes a difference.

[Mark Forrest]

5 hours ago, John Isherwood said:

 

The Parkside 16'6'' / 10'0'' chassis. would be spot-on for a 1/007 20T PIG IRON, though!

 

John Isherwood.

Wouldn't the Pig Iron have 10" solebars, heavy duty axleguards, clasp brakes and different axleboxes?

[Mark Forrest]

2 hours ago, Flying Pig said:

Rumney models list a 16’6” x 9’ BR clasp brake underframe for mineral wagons.  Is that currently the only way to get one of these wagons?

Another option is to shorten the Red Panda clasp braked underframe, if I remember correctly the instructions provided detail where to make the cuts.

[MJI]

Depends on the types you want.

 

The rake I am buiding is 4 x 10ft MXV, 20 x  MXV, 10 x MCV

 

So 3D printed them

[MJI]

https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:5878139

 

https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:5760328

[CKPR]

I prefer the original Airfix kit over the Parkside version, albeit that I rework the door hinges and add ABS brake gear and metal bufferheads. I agree with previous comments about the quality of the Dapol kits, which to be fair is hardly surprising given that the moulds are over 60 years old. Possibly because some of the detail is slightly simplified and a bit chunky, the Airfix version seems to capture the atmosphere of the old 16 tonners as I remember them - the more accurate Parkside kit seems a bit twee to my eyes ! 

Edited August 23, 2024 by CKPR

[MattR]

On 19/08/2024 at 08:58, DCB said:

I have several Parkside bodies on RTR chassis, and  also Airfix Bake Van bodies on RTR chassis but my experience is no plastic kit chassis stands up to being used in trains for very long

 

Not 16T minerals I know, but how are Slaters wagon kits? Are they similarly short-lived?

[Guest]

On 19/08/2024 at 04:19, WilltheMechanist said:

which is generally considered the better OO gauge kit?

I have ordered the Dapol 16t mineral wagon kit which arrives tomorrow.😉

[John Isherwood]

1 hour ago, Kevin Johnson said:

I have ordered the Dapol 16t mineral wagon kit which arrives tomorrow.😉

 

Better still - look out for legacy Airfix kits on Ebay - MUCH sharper detail and MUCH better plastic.

 

John Isherwood.

[Neil]

Well I've never had any problems with plastic kits standing up to wear ......

 

 

 

..... as to which 16T is best, it's both or neither, the train in the video above has examples of both, they're equally good.

Edited August 22, 2024 by Neil

[Flying Pig]

17 hours ago, Kevin Johnson said:

I have ordered the Dapol 16t mineral wagon kit which arrives tomorrow.😉

 

If this sort of detail bothers you, look closely at the brakes when you have the kit.  Note that they are moulded the wrong way round and would be released when the brake lever was lowered, not applied as they should be.  This is easy to fix, just turn the brake  moulding round with the rear face outwards.  You might have to shave some detail off the back to avoid jamming the wheels.

 

If you are even more fussy, the kit does not represent the brake gear of a typical wagon built to the standard BR diagram (diagram 1/108), which had Morton brakes with shoes on one side only and a cross shaft from the lever on the other side.  For these, the Airfix/Dapol brake moulding is correct, but the lever on the brakes side should have a reversing clutch. Look closely at your rtr wagons to see what that was like - it is pretty easy to move the end of the lever upwards on the V hanger and suggest a clutch using a scrap of plastic.  The other side should have no brakes and just the plain lever as supplied, with a shaft between the two levers.  These wagons should not hve the V symbol on the side door which indicate bottom doors (as they didn't have any).

 

If you become a complete obsessive, there is a correct relationship between which side the brakes are on and the end door.  I think the end door should be on the left as you look at the braked side but someone will correct me if that is wrong.

[Wheatley]

On 19/08/2024 at 13:58, DCB said:

they do tend to disintegrate in service... no plastic kit chassis stands up to being used in trains for very long

 

What on earth are you doing with them ? Some of mine are over 40 years old, the few that have been withdrawn have either had something dropped on them or (the majority of the few) because they look like they were built and painted by a 13 yr old with three thumbs and they stand out amongst the later builds.  

 

Advantages of the Airfix/Dapol kit - the buffers are more robust so I don't need to replace them unless the heads actually get broken off. Even then i only replace the head - drill out the body and push an MJT or Wizard/51L turned head in.

 

Advantages of the Parkside kit - you don't need to buy wheels and bearings (in OO at least)  

 

Edited August 22, 2024 by Wheatley

[Enfys_Rainbow]

Here's an Airfix/Dapol kit:

 

And a Parkside one:

 

Both are equally good kits in my opinion. 

 

Matt

[Mark Forrest]

A couple of Parkside kits.

Both started out as unfitted, vac braked parts are castings from the ABS range.

[DCB]

23 hours ago, Neil said:

Well I've never had any problems with plastic kits standing up to wear ......

 

 

..... as to which 16T is best, it's both or neither, the train in the video above has examples of both, they're equally good.

But they are modified, and in a fixed formation with other kits.   I have a box full of broken Airfix wagons and I inherited several part built Parkside kits.   Two at least went on RTR chassis and get lost in the wagon fleet.  My rule of thumb is as far as possible the same unfitted freight never runs twice and all unfitted freights are remarshalled and inspected either in the yard or at the terminus.   That typically means propelling a rake of 22 wagons over 2ft radius points .   Not set track like many modellers use.                                           

[Mark Forrest]

6 hours ago, DCB said:

But they are modified, and in a fixed formation with other kits.   I have a box full of broken Airfix wagons and I inherited several part built Parkside kits.   Two at least went on RTR chassis and get lost in the wagon fleet.  My rule of thumb is as far as possible the same unfitted freight never runs twice and all unfitted freights are remarshalled and inspected either in the yard or at the terminus.   That typically means propelling a rake of 22 wagons over 2ft radius points .   Not set track like many modellers use.                                           

Just out of interest, what adhesive/solvent are you using?  I've built quite a few plastic wagons over the years (including some which had a hard life on the exhibition circuit) and haven't experienced any issues with them falling apart.  In my experience, it's things like brake levers and buffers that are the vulnerable areas; these I routinely replace with metal parts for durability.

[Neil]

7 hours ago, DCB said:

But they are modified, and in a fixed formation with other kits.   I have a box full of broken Airfix wagons and I inherited several part built Parkside kits.   Two at least went on RTR chassis and get lost in the wagon fleet.  My rule of thumb is as far as possible the same unfitted freight never runs twice and all unfitted freights are remarshalled and inspected either in the yard or at the terminus.   That typically means propelling a rake of 22 wagons over 2ft radius points .   Not set track like many modellers use.                                           

 

The Airfix wagons are only modified to the extent of removing the working door hinges; not a mod which would affect their durability. The stock on the layout was shunted regularly not kept in fixed formations, the length of the circuit from fiddle yard to fiddle yard was sixty plus feet. I have boxes full of complete and functioning kit built wagons rather than boxes of bits. It's a complete fallacy that kit built wagons are not robust.

[Guest]

My parkside kit arrived of this wagon. But I have found out the sole bars a very brittle and break easily. Can I replace these with etched ones and if I can were to purchase them from.