Equipment, tools, supplies - what would an engine typically carry in use?

[ID10T code]

Hello all, 

 

First off, forgive me if this has been covered before - I've searched the forum but haven't found anything that seems gives an answer to this. I am a recent convert to model railways from military modelling (although I've long held an interest in industrial railways). 

 

I'm trying to finish my 2 Dapol Hawthorn Leslie 0-4-0st to create something that looks like an engine in daily use rather than a static museum piece (or a model!), but I really have no clue as to what I should / shouldn't add to them.

 

I suppose that I have four questions here:

1) in daily use what would an industrial steam locomotive/crew typically take with it? In terms of shovels, fire irons, oil/grease cans, etc. (And what actually are all these gubbins?)

2) Where would/should things be placed? Would they be put somewhere specific, or just dumped randomly on the running plate? 

3) What things are unlikely to be carried by an industrial tank engine?

4) And at what point does adding things look unrealistic? 

 

I've seen Springside Models' set of tank engine fire irons, I've seen the various 3D printed offerings from Modelu - but to be completely honest I have no idea what half of these things are or what they're used for. My only knowledge here comes from photos in books / online, few of which actually state what the engine is carrying. For every photo I've found with an engine carrying a multitide of cans, shovels, hammers, and the proverbial kitchen sink on the running plate, I'll find just as many photos with them carrying nothing at all.  Going to my inspiration, the Middleton Railway, has been equally baffling. 

 

Mostly, how do I avoid falling into the military modeller's trap (beloved of my fellow tank and AFV enthusiasts) of gluing on so much "stuff" that my 0-4-0sts looks like they were driven past an exploding tool box? 🤣

 

As I've said, I really have no first hand knowledge here - so any guidence would be much appreciated!

 

Cheers, 

ID10T 

 

 

 

[Wheatley]

My two penn'orth

 

Minimum:

Shovel (fireman's normal size)

Oil can.

 

Probably:

Bucket containing hammer (for breaking up coal), rags, adjustable wrench. 

Gas mask case or similar containing snap tin, bottle of cold tea. 

 

Possibly:

Jack (large bottle jack for re-railing, sometimes bolted to the footplate)

Lamps if required

Shunter's pole if not being carried by the shunter

Slacking pipe for damping down dust

Rake and/or dart (long handled for breaking up clinker and getting a bit more air through the grate)

Brake stick (like a square baseball bat)

 

Exceptionally:

Long handled shovel for dropping the fire (normally left at the shed)

Tarpaulin

Rope or chain

Spare 3 link coupling

Chocks, timber packing or rerailing ramps

 

Only in stories:

Bikes

Small dragons 

 

 

 

Edited August 27, 2024 by Wheatley

[sir douglas]

4 hours ago, Wheatley said:

 

Brake stick (like a square baseball bat)

ive only heard it known as a "sprag"

[Ian Smeeton]

2 oil cans, one for lube oil, one for steam oil.

 

Shunters pole normally on the buffer beam, too long for the cab.

 

Scotch, or two on the running plate.

 

Regards

 

Ian

[Jeremy Cumberland]

The steam oil can will quite likely be kept somewhere warm, and next to the smokebox was common. Take a look at this photo and the following three: https://www.thetransportlibrary.co.uk/-/galleries/rail/neville-stead-collection/-/medias/1e4b01b0-aac6-4d87-a451-3de22b919a97-nbl-north-british-locomotive-company-industrial-steam-locomotiv. I've also seen it kept next to the firebox, or kept elsewhere and placed next to the firebox later on in the shift.

 

From what I've seen, steam oil was usually topped up just once a day, when putting the engine to bed. The can could be left in the shed, but steam oil is very thick when cold, which is why it was usually carried around in a warm part of the engine.

 

Engines that never left their home location needn't take all their oil supplies with them, and so, for example, the top-up lubricating oil can and any dispensers that were only used once a day (for axleboxes, for example) might be kept in the shed, and so the only oil can actually needed was one for the motion. This might be two oil cans, if some parts were difficult to reach and needed a longer or peculiarly shaped spout, for example.

 

In terms of fire irons, I'd expect a pricker as well as a firing shovel. The shovel would probably be pushed in ready to take the next shovelful of coal if the handle sticking out didn't get in the way. Alternatively, it would probably have a home somewhere close to the bunker where it could be kept more or less vertical. Where the pricker went depends on what space was available. For a rear bunker it could sit on top, but side bunkers have less space.

 

Here is a lovely picture of the firebox and bunker of Captain Baxter (Fletcher Jennings 158/1877) showing the shovel and steam oil can; I am not sure what the bar is below the fire hole door, but the brackets look like they are for fire irons: https://www.dreamstime.com/royalty-free-stock-images-coal-bunker-shot-showing-footplate-steam-train-image33179579

 

[Siberian Snooper]

If there's a shelf above the fire doors, then oil and tea can would reside there to keep them warm.

 

 

[auld_boot]

 

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/NER_Class_290#/media/File%3ABishop_Auckland_geograph-2380637-by-Ben-Brooksbank.jpg

[pb_devon]

Devonport Dockyard loco’s carried small bags of coal, plus some kindling.

[Mol_PMB]

On 27/08/2024 at 18:13, Wheatley said:

My two penn'orth

 

Minimum:

Shovel (fireman's normal size)

Oil can.

 

Probably:

Bucket containing hammer (for breaking up coal), rags, adjustable wrench. 

Gas mask case or similar containing snap tin, bottle of cold tea. 

 

Possibly:

Jack (large bottle jack for re-railing, sometimes bolted to the footplate)

Lamps if required

Shunter's pole if not being carried by the shunter

Slacking pipe for damping down dust

Rake and/or dart (long handled for breaking up clinker and getting a bit more air through the grate)

Brake stick (like a square baseball bat)

 

Exceptionally:

Long handled shovel for dropping the fire (normally left at the shed)

Tarpaulin

Rope or chain

Spare 3 link coupling

Chocks, timber packing or rerailing ramps

 

Only in stories:

Bikes

Small dragons 

 

 

 

I'd say many of the items on the Probably and Possibly lists would be carried, but not necessarily in an obvious place visible on a model.

As for the 'Only in Stories'...

 

But seriously, there were industrial railways where bikes were quite often carried and used as part pf the crew's duties. I think sometimes in Trafford Park the fireman/secondman would cycle ahead of the train to change points, flag level crossings etc, then back on his bike to catch up. On the majority of industrial sites, a bike is indeed very unlikely.

Sorry, no small dragons though.

 

[ID10T code]

Thank you all for the explanations, this really has been very informative. It's explained a lot of the things I've seen in photos but never understood or had proper context for. 

 

Much appreciated! 

 

On 27/08/2024 at 18:13, Wheatley said:

 

Only in stories:

Bikes

Small dragons 

 

 

1 hour ago, Mol_PMB said:

 

Sorry, no small dragons though.

 

 

No small dragons? Next you'll be telling me that I should return the pipe organ back to the fairground! 

[Ruston]

You can also add lumps of coal, carried on the running plate, or even wedged in handrails along saddle tanks, to the list.

 

Fire irons could be carried in the cab, on the running plate, wedged into handrails and even on the cab roof. Some older engines, especially smaller Manning Wardles, had racks made from what looked like two-pronged forks, on the saddle tank to carry fire irons.

 

Spare firing shovels were often wedged into handrails and sometimes carried on the cab roof.

 

On 27/08/2024 at 18:13, Wheatley said:

Slacking pipe for damping down dust

Never seen one on an industrial engine.

 

 

[Poor Old Bruce]

On 27/08/2024 at 23:12, sir douglas said:

ive only heard it known as a "sprag"

 

I thought a sprag was a sort  of octagonal shaped piece of wood about two to three feet long (that's a bit vague I know), about five inches diameter in the middle tapering to about two inches (ish) diameter at each end. I believe it was placed/inserted/thrown between the spokes or in the holes of a wheel of a vehicle without a handbrake e.g. a coach to stop it or stop it rolling away. A brake stick was/is (as mentioned above) a sort of baseball bat size thing with half of its length round and the other half square (rectangular?) which you stuck in the hole in the axleguard (or any other convenient place) to lever the handbrake handle down.

[Wheatley]

 

[IWCR]

Fire  Irons  would  normally  be  a  dart,  a  spoon  (long  handled  metal  shovel  to  reach  onto  the  grate)  and  an  ashpan  rake.

Note:  these  are  obviously  much  shorter  than  their  equivalent  main  line  loco  tools.

A  common  place  on  the  Hawthorn  Leslie  to carry  the  spoon  is  across  the  bunkers / firebox  top  behind  the  saddle  tank  with  the  rake  and  dart  in  the  cab  or  over  the  rear  lamp  brackets.  Look  at  pictures  of  your  prototype  in use,  you  should  be  able  to  see  how  items  are  stowed  in  local  practice.

 

Pete

[Michael Hodgson]

17 hours ago, Wheatley said:

 

 

 

 

Scotch - block of wood shaped to suit wheel, often with a handle, that is placed on rail head to stop vehicle rolling away.

Sprag - a stout piece of timber or metal shoved through a hole in wheel to stop it rotating.

   These are improvised ways of securing a vehicle with no/defective brake.  Ineffective on moving train/inadequate on gradient.

 

Brake stick - used to hold down the brake lever on a wagon - used to control speed when loose shunting wagons

Shunting pole - hook-ended stick used to couple/uncouple 3-link couplings - avoids going between.

   Dangerous especially if used by the inexperienced.

 

 

 

[IWCR]

First  picture  using  shunting  pole:

The  pole  should  be  behind  the  buffer  head,  positioned  as  shown  will  not  have  a  good  result  when  the  oncoming  wagon  arrives  and  the  buffers  touch.

 

Pete

[Mol_PMB]

2 minutes ago, IWCR said:

First  picture  using  shunting  pole:

The  pole  should  be  behind  the  buffer  head,  positioned  as  shown  will  not  have  a  good  result  when  the  oncoming  wagon  arrives  and  the  buffers  touch.

 

Pete

Absolutely agreed, and the same is true of the shunter's arm. I think the modern phrase would be 'life-changing injuries'.

[Nick C]

On 28/08/2024 at 20:09, Mol_PMB said:

But seriously, there were industrial railways where bikes were quite often carried and used as part pf the crew's duties. I think sometimes in Trafford Park the fireman/secondman would cycle ahead of the train to change points, flag level crossings etc, then back on his bike to catch up. On the majority of industrial sites, a bike is indeed very unlikely.

Sorry, no small dragons though.

 

I've seen photos of a bike being carried like that on the Drewry shunters on the Wisbech and Upwell - presumably for that reason as there'd have been lots of crew-worked infrastructure...

 

The small dragons would usually be kept near the loco shed for lighting-up purposes - though of course it was necessary to make sure they were penned so that they didn't eat the coal.

[doilum]

Having spent well over a decade researching and building the locomotives of Area 8 it is surprising how little " clutter" could be found on the colliery locomotives. Perhaps because they were rarely more than half a mile from home, or because of the rough riding on waste tip rails or just a sense of tidiness any extra equipment must have been confined to the cab. I have found one or two exceptions but these may have been on exceptional  occasions. 

Best advice is to use Google images to provide evidence from specific local collieries or factories.