disco-dave Posted November 2, 2009 Share Posted November 2, 2009 I've been thinking about my fiddle yard and I've come up with an idea, but I'm not sure it's actually possible??¦ Below is a simplified diagram of a fiddle yard on a roundy-roundy layout. Is it possible to wire up the points so that A, B, C and D are switches and when you choose the switch for say 'D', it changes all the points to make that road in the fiddle yard the one that can be used? and vice versa for A, B and C? Cheers Nigel Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold ian Posted November 2, 2009 RMweb Gold Share Posted November 2, 2009 Nigel, What sort of point motors do you intend to use? Twin solenoid, Tortoise, servo or something else? The answer is yes, but the method varies. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
gordon s Posted November 2, 2009 Share Posted November 2, 2009 As Ian has suggested, it can be done using a diode matrix. The circuits for solenoid motors are different to those for stall motors (Tortoise) but these two sites should help you understand how it can be accomplished. Solenoid Motors Tortoise Motors Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium jamie92208 Posted November 2, 2009 RMweb Premium Share Posted November 2, 2009 I you are using 12 volt motors (eityher tortoise/fulgurex) the it used to be done with interlocking switches which seem to have now dissappeared from the RS catalogue. The easy way now is a rotary wafer switch, also mavailable from RS with 4 positions, as the operating arm moves round the wafer it reverses each set of points in and you then have the two point motors at each end of each siding wired in series. If you are interested I could look up the RS catalogue numbers and contact you off line. Basically it is a rotary switch that you put a series of wafer switches on tghe back of. They take a little bit of setting up but work well. I've installed one on my brothers layout. I'm not sure how to do it with the AC solenoid type. Jamie Guest Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Barry Ten Posted November 2, 2009 RMweb Gold Share Posted November 2, 2009 I you are using 12 volt motors (eityher tortoise/fulgurex) the it used to be done with interlocking switches which seem to have now dissappeared from the RS catalogue. I'm not sure how to do it with the AC solenoid type. Jamie Guest One of the recent-ish Model Railroaders showed a new method for wiring up a yard ladder using Tortoise-type motors that was supposedly much simpler than that generally used - if you're interested, I could dig out the reference. As far as wiring up solenoids goes, I know it's not really answering your question, but the six-road fiddle yard on my US layout is wired up using a schematic diagram and center-biased DPDT switches. To select a route, I merely flick the switches in descending order from the top of the ladder (if, for instance, I wanted to select your "C" road, I'd flick the switches "down, down, up". If a route is already set, nothing happens. If it isn't set, the point throws. The key thing is, I don't have to know, or be able to see, the pre-existing settings of the points; I can just decide which road to use and throw all the switches. It sounds like a hassle but it's actually not, and it rapidly becomes second-nature (and the work of a second or so) to select a given track. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
disco-dave Posted November 2, 2009 Author Share Posted November 2, 2009 Nigel, What sort of point motors do you intend to use? Twin solenoid, Tortoise, servo or something else? The answer is yes, but the method varies. I intended to use Hornby Surface Mounted Point Motors, as it was a fiddle yard and asthetics were not important. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold ian Posted November 3, 2009 RMweb Gold Share Posted November 3, 2009 Operating more than one point motor at a time will need a Capacitor Discharge Unit (CDU) to provide more oomph. This is connected to switches for each route to be set (either a rotary switch to select route and a heavy duty push button to set it, or a heavy duty push button to select and set each route). The switches are then connected via a diode matrix (a series of diodes that route the power to the appropriate places) to the point motors. If you put up a plan of your actual fiddle yard I can draw up a cuircuit diagram for you. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bushrat Posted December 4, 2009 Share Posted December 4, 2009 Hi everyone, I am in a similar situation, I thought that it would be a simple matter to do something, but alas and alack (mainly alack!) I cant get it to work! So here's the problem: I have a passing loop, (two points only), and am using peco solonoid point motors. Both points were installed and the motors attached. Both work fine as individual motors off separate switches (for the moment an old "Lima" point switch), but I would like them to both work by only having to push one button on the switch to operate both points. I would have thought it would be a simple matter of getting the polarity right and hooking them up to the switch but NO! (here's where the "alack" comes in) they just kinda buzz when you push the button. Have tried heavier wire to no avail. I am using a H&M controller - 16VAC output. I did this on my last layout about 10 years ago and it worked, but I cant remember how I did it, old age encroaches! Can anyone tell me in simple terms if there's an easy way of doing this please? Much appreciated, Bushrat Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karhedron Posted December 4, 2009 Share Posted December 4, 2009 If they buzz but fail to throw then it is possible that you do not have enough oomph in the system. Try adding a CDU as Ian recommends and see if that helps. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium BR60103 Posted December 5, 2009 RMweb Premium Share Posted December 5, 2009 Bushrat: You need 2 sorts of components: diodes and a DC power supply (CDU preferred). The diodes join the points so that throwing the last in the sequence either way also throws the next one down towards it. If you use a pure AC supply, the diodes don't do their work. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bushrat Posted December 6, 2009 Share Posted December 6, 2009 Bushrat: You need 2 sorts of components: diodes and a DC power supply (CDU preferred). The diodes join the points so that throwing the last in the sequence either way also throws the next one down towards it. If you use a pure AC supply, the diodes don't do their work. Yep, too many years have passed since I did all this stuff! Did up a RUFF circuit, the idea being that the cap should give a temporary voltage boost. Do you think it would work, seeing as there are only 2 point motors? If I need to add diodes, what value and where? I also have a 12 volt dc tap on the power unit, would it be better to use that? Thanks for the help guys! Ratticus Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bushrat Posted December 6, 2009 Share Posted December 6, 2009 Yep, too many years have passed since I did all this stuff! Did up a RUFF circuit, the idea being that the cap should give a temporary voltage boost. Do you think it would work, seeing as there are only 2 point motors? If I need to add diodes, what value and where? I also have a 12 volt dc tap on the power unit, would it be better to use that? Thanks for the help guys! Ratticus Disregard the top diagram, I forgot to put in the lead for the second solonoid end! Sorry, couldnt manage to delete it! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
10000 Posted December 6, 2009 Share Posted December 6, 2009 Bushrat, In the past did you use a passing contact switch as supplied by Hornby for points. Peco twin coil motors only need one coil to be energised to throw the point. !6v AC should be enough to do 2 points simultaneously with out a CDU, but a CDU is better. Feed it with 16v AC and you should get about 28v DC out of it. So to do it with only one switch other than a passing contact you need a single pole double throw switch of the type that is centre off. (sprung is best to prevent you leaving it set on which without a CDU would burn out the motor, with a CDU will prevent it from recharging.) Cannot find any in Maplins but I know they were available once because we used them in work. On the switch connect the centre common to the + on the CDU, connect one pole to one coil of the motors and the other pole to the other coil on the motors and away you go. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bushrat Posted December 6, 2009 Share Posted December 6, 2009 Hi there 1000, The switch I am currently trying is an old Lima, which is a very simple push switch which momentarily makes contact with a tag to complete the circuit, them springs back. I do have a few of the old Triang switches, which look the same as the Hornby (ie. big lever which you move). The way I have it set up is that pushing the switch energises one end only of both solonoids when the button is pushed, so you have a black button to push to route A, and a yellow button to push to get them back to route B. I am sure this is how I hooked up dual points before, the point motors are brand new out of the pack, and work fine if wired on two switches. Really quite a a puzzle....... Maybe I have lost the plot because I am building the partworks flying scotsman!! When you say they need only one coil to be energised, you do mean that you have to energise one coil to change in one direction, and energise the other coil to change back dont you? Rattus Australis Befuddledus......... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium BR60103 Posted December 7, 2009 RMweb Premium Share Posted December 7, 2009 I misread the question and my answer is consequently irrelevant. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
10000 Posted December 7, 2009 Share Posted December 7, 2009 Bushrat, that's right one coil to go one direction then the other coil to change back. The method I use for points is one recommended by CTI for use with relays it keeps the number to a minimum. Note 'Dual coil switch machines ' are point motors to us. Not shown power into CDU It uses one relay (switch) for direction setting then one per motor to operate Of course this can be extended for any number of motors and of course the commons of 2 or more motors can be connected to 1 switch. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
10000 Posted December 7, 2009 Share Posted December 7, 2009 Getting back to Nigel's OP. I knew I had seen something that may help you it just took a bit of time to find it. Diode matrix Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bushrat Posted December 8, 2009 Share Posted December 8, 2009 Thanks for the help guys, I now know what to do. I also know what NOT to do, tried the capacitor in circuit, as shown in my rough drawing, and it actually worked until the third time I changed the points. I had put the capacitor in a cardstock lineside hut to cunningly conceal it, there was a loud bang as the capacitor exploded, the lineside hut went vertical, scared the c%$p out of the dog, and totally demolished both the capacitor and hut! Was like a scene from the Adams family series, most spectacular! Never mind, its all good! Ratticus Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.