what type of couplings

[jimikelly]

hello again is there anyone who can give me advice on what type of coupling to use on my 00 layout I use RTR ,mainly TRI -and Hornby ,,, Ive tried Spratt and Winkle.. but I couldn't understand the instructions well enough to fit them..I.d like to use 3 link.. but the eyesight isnt good enough I'm looking for normal not complicated maneuvers just to shunt and to have a bit of fun doing so, and not to throw things across the room in frustration,,,many thanks

[dave_long]

If you struggle with instructions for S&Ws and your eyesight isn't good enough for 3 links then have a look at the adpatations of the standard tension lock coupling as seen in this thread from the old forum? Brian Kirby couplings Pete Harvey has produced etched couplings than will snap in place too if you cant fit the staple properly.

[DutyDruid]

Hi

 

I see that Dave has just beaten me to suggest PH Designs. Their mod for the ordinary tension lock system can be found on RM web here

 

Also, despite the title of the thread currently running, Kadee couplers when properly set up do work rather well, although on UK stock its likely to require a lot of fiddling such as changing axles and so on as well as resolving the height issues that are the subject of the current thread.

 

The other coupling systems such as Alex Jackson and Dinghams all require a lot of modification to the stock and are likely to cause you the same problems as Sprat & Winkle.

 

HTH

 

Elliott

[Gilbert]

I am using KDs on British with reasonable success - mainly Bachmann/kits and a mixture of NEM plug-ins - #18/19s mainly and #5 requiring a bit more surgery.

Chris

[jimikelly]

If you struggle with instructions for S&Ws and your eyesight isn't good enough for 3 links then have a look at the adpatations of the standard tension lock coupling as seen in this thread from the old forum? Brian Kirby couplings Pete Harvey has produced etched couplings than will snap in place too if you cant fit the staple properly.

Many thanks Dave,, I just seem to struggle on where the staple has to go to make it float ..do I have to drill holes

[dave_long]

no need to drill holes, glue or epoxy would do the trick look at the 1st image of page 2 of the link I gave you. If not like dutydruid and I have said have a look at phd designs these are etched brass replacment hooks that will just snap fit the origial couplings. see here? PHD couplings

[DutyDruid]

I just seem to struggle on where the staple has to go to make it float ..do I have to drill holes

I was a bit puzzled by this, if you are talking about S&W couplings the answer should be "no, there are etched holes in all the necessary places".

 

I had to nip down to the clubroom for other reasons and I took the opportunity to look at a couple of Parkside van kits I have fitted up with S&W couplings. As far as I can see the staple is literally there to form a hinge and the etched holes that it goes through are in exactly the right place for it to go together properly. That said, I do remember that when I built these kits and fitted the couplers I had some problems in getting them to swing freely. I think in the end what I did to get them to work was to not make the staples too tight.

 

What did defeat me with S&W though was the "3 link chain" that you have to fabricate to make them work. No matter what I do the links just keep falling to pieces and I could see myself turning up at an exhibition, getting the stock out of its boxes and then spending most of the first day re-building the chains so that I can operate the freight stock. That's why I'm now experimenting with Kadees.

 

And just to add, while searching old RMWEB for something a few days ago I came across a pic of a modified S&W coupler where the chain was actually fabricated from one length of iron wire bent to look like a 3 link chain. If the current experiment fails I may go back to S&W at least for the freight stock I use on Nictun Borrud.

 

Elliott

[dave_long]

I was a bit puzzled by this, if you are talking about S&W couplings the answer should be "no, there are etched holes in all the necessary places".? ? 

 

I had to nip down to the clubroom for other reasons and I took the opportunity to look at a couple of Parkside van kits I have fitted up with S&W couplings.? ? As far as I can see the staple is literally there to form a hinge and the etched holes that it goes through are in exactly the right place for it to go together properly.? ? That said, I do remember that when I built these kits and fitted the couplers I had some problems in getting them to swing freely.? ? I think in the end what I did to get them to work was to not make the staples too tight.

 

What did defeat me with S&W though was the "3 link chain" that you have to fabricate to make them work.? ? No matter what I do the links just keep falling to pieces and I could see myself turning up at an exhibition, getting the stock out of its boxes and then spending most of the first day re-building the chains so that I can operate the freight stock.? ? That's why I'm now experimenting with Kadees.? ? 

 

And just to add, while searching old RMWEB for something a few days ago I came across a pic of a modified S&W coupler where the chain was actually fabricated from one length of iron wire bent to look like a 3 link chain.? ? If the current experiment fails I may go back to S&W at least for the freight stock I use on Nictun Borrud.

 

Elliott

 

 

 

 

I have a feeling that he was talking about the staple used in the Brian Kirby version, that is attached to the bottom of the tension lock coupler.

 

 

I've used S&Ws myself and have not bothered with the chain links. I have instead used a staple bent back on itself at the bottom and bent through the hole at the top, and they work exceptionally well too and wont fall apart. Once the whole S&W has been blackened its hard to tell the difference. Chris Nevard (cement quay) and few others I believe have used this work around.

[cnw6847]

Personally I prefer KD's. I have quite a bit of US stuff fitted with them and when I got back into British I continued to use them. They can be a bit of work to fit compared to on US stuff but I believe its worth the effort.

 

Also if using magnets the steel axles on British stock can be a problem attracting over the magnet.

 

The tension lock adaptions seem a good idea also and I may have considered them if I hadn't already een using kd's

[jimikelly]

I was a bit puzzled by this, if you are talking about S&W couplings the answer should be "no, there are etched holes in all the necessary places".

 

I had to nip down to the clubroom for other reasons and I took the opportunity to look at a couple of Parkside van kits I have fitted up with S&W couplings. As far as I can see the staple is literally there to form a hinge and the etched holes that it goes through are in exactly the right place for it to go together properly. That said, I do remember that when I built these kits and fitted the couplers I had some problems in getting them to swing freely. I think in the end what I did to get them to work was to not make the staples too tight.

 

What did defeat me with S&W though was the "3 link chain" that you have to fabricate to make them work. No matter what I do the links just keep falling to pieces and I could see myself turning up at an exhibition, getting the stock out of its boxes and then spending most of the first day re-building the chains so that I can operate the freight stock. That's why I'm now experimenting with Kadees.

 

And just to add, while searching old RMWEB for something a few days ago I came across a pic of a modified S&W coupler where the chain was actually fabricated from one length of iron wire bent to look like a 3 link chain. If the current experiment fails I may go back to S&W at least for the freight stock I use on Nictun Borrud.

 

Elliott

Hi Elliott there seems I have made myself unclear as to what do I do with the staples,I cut the wire to what size and then where do I put them

[DutyDruid]

Hi Elliott there seems I have made myself unclear as to what do I do with the staples,I cut the wire to what size and then where do I put them

Ah! Unfortunately I have to go to work shortly so I can't really answer this one now. What I will have to do is to go to the club and retrieve my 2 wagons, and retrieve the instruction sheets from one of my tool boxes which I think is in the model shop where I work on a Monday, then I'll be able to give you a detailed explanation of how it all works. If I can persuade my wife she doesn't need the camera for work tomorrow I may even be able to put one together and take a series of pics to show how its done.

 

Be back tomorrow some time.

 

Elliott

[johnb]

Personally I prefer KD's. I have quite a bit of US stuff fitted with them and when I got back into British I continued to use them. They can be a bit of work to fit compared to on US stuff but I believe its worth the effort.

 

Also if using magnets the steel axles on British stock can be a problem attracting over the magnet.

 

The tension lock adaptions seem a good idea also and I may have considered them if I hadn't already een using kd's

 

 

I'd agree with cnw6847 here. I became used to KDs on US models and again on return to UK stuff continued the theme.

I've not got much Bachmann fitted with NEM pockets one is a BG which works perfectly with KD #20 couplers and a couple of Cl 25s which have #18s. Heljan locos and stock are fine as is my Hornby Cl 31 with #18s. Most of the rest that I run on my West London Parcels layout are older models and I've fitted the KD draft gear boxes with either #5 or #148 couplers.

I'm mainly running bogie parcels stock on which the KDs look quite OK and even on the ballast hoppers they not THAT noticeable. For the odd vehicle where the NEM pocket is out of position I simply hack it off and fit the draft gear box with a #5 or #148.

So, to conclude I will not be going back to the tension lock type and as the KDs suit me I won't be trying out the Sprat and Winkle and the like.

[jimikelly]

Ah! Unfortunately I have to go to work shortly so I can't really answer this one now. What I will have to do is to go to the club and retrieve my 2 wagons, and retrieve the instruction sheets from one of my tool boxes which I think is in the model shop where I work on a Monday, then I'll be able to give you a detailed explanation of how it all works. If I can persuade my wife she doesn't need the camera for work tomorrow I may even be able to put one together and take a series of pics to show how its done.

 

Be back tomorrow some time.

 

Elliott

Good afternoon guys , Hello Elliott sorry for the delay in getting back ,,,due to work,, you where going to step me through the process of fitting the spratt and winkle coupling ;;

[DutyDruid]

Good afternoon guys , Hello Elliott sorry for the delay in getting back ,,,due to work,, you where going to step me through the process of fitting the spratt and winkle coupling ;;

Still will do, its a case of getting everything I need in the same place at the same time. Just had to unexpectedly chair a meeting of the Wessex Association of Model Railway Clubs (as well as doing my prime function of being the Secretary) which has taken most of the available time yesterday and today; now have the camera I need to take the pics so will sit down tomorrow morning and build one. Not able to do it now as my wife has very kindly been to Southwick and brought back some Suthwyk Ale for me...

[DutyDruid]

Not able to do it now as my wife has very kindly been to Southwick and brought back some Suthwyk Ale for me...

Right, here we go.

 

Opening statement, I have only ever assembled a couple of these as a trial myself, so I don't pretend to be the world's greatest expert in them but at least that means I'm only just ahead of you in the learning curve and therefore reasonable qualified to share my experiences as a beginner. The instruction sheet I worked from can be found here

 

This is a picture of one coupling mounted on a Parkside van kit.

 

and this picture is as seen from the side

 

If you look carefully you can see that the coupling consists of two main pieces, the mounting plate and the arm.

 

These two pics show the seperate parts still on their frets.

 

Mounting plate:

 

and arm

 

You will also need to fabricate a couple of what MSE refer to as "Staples" like this.

 

The dimensions are contained in the instructions. The staple shown in the pic above is the one that holds the arm to the mounting plate, and the leg on the left hand side still needs to be trimmed to length. According to the instructions the legs should each be 6mm long and the distance between them 8mm. You may need to have a couple of goes to get these right, the secret is to do it so that the legs are just right to go through the correct holes in the mounting plates. I bend the corners round a pair of round nosed pliers.

 

Right. What you do is to take the take the staple shown in the pic above and push its two legs through the inner set of holes on the mounting plate and solder it in place on one side of the plate. Be careful to make sure you know which way up the mounting plate should be.

 

Then make the bigger of the staples from the brass wire in the kit and solder that to the mounting plate as well. This staple makes the loop that the coupling arm on the adjacent wagon will hook on to. You use the half etch marks on the mounting plate as a locating guide for this staple.

 

The next bit is the piece that caused me the most trouble and nearly led to the van taking a flying lesson. Having bent the arm to shape and "tinned" the plate to give it added weight, you drop it over the legs of the staple so that they go through the holes you can clearly see in the plate of the arm in the photo above; then you bend the legs of the staple over so that the arm is trapped and able to swing. That's the difficult bit to get right, the coupling arm must be free to move in the vertical plane - i.e. pivot on the mounting plate. If you look carefully at the second picture (the one with my thumb in it) you will see that there is a good half mm gap between the plate of the arm and the mounting plate. My biggest problem when I first tried this was having the courage to make it that loose, but it needs to be that loose for it to work.

 

The next bit has also been a source of frustration. You are supposed to make a false 3-link coupling chain from iron wire and fix it to the arm through the hole. I have had a lot of trouble with the links falling apart. Somewhere on RMWEB, possibly the old version, there is a picture of a S&W coupling that has this chain made out of a single piece of iron wire.

 

From there, its a case of evo-sticking it on to the floor of the wagon and seeing if it works.

 

The choice you have to make is whether to go for the upper or lower position. The upper position requires you to rip holes in the headstock so I would give that one a wide berth and stick with the lower position. you will see if you look carefully at both the pics of the van that I have put strips of plastic under the coupling to make it as close to level as I can get it.

 

Hope this has been of some help, let us know how you get on.

 

Elliott

(now off to find more Suthwyk Ale in the fridge :icon_thumbsup2:)

[Ben Alder]

I have used these couplings for some time now and can state that they are reliable in operation and easy to fit and fettle. Originally I used the mounting plate, but it was sometimes difficult to find space for it on some stock, so after trials I glue a piece of polystyrene strip to the wagon and pivot the coupling from it.

 

Here is a photo showing this- I actually have just put an entry on these couplings on my blog yesterday as one or two others had asked about the same thing and there is a fuller explanation there.

 

Hope this helps,

 

Richard

 

 

 

 

[DutyDruid]

I actually have just put an entry on these couplings on my blog yesterday as one or two others had asked about the same thing and there is a fuller explanation there.

 

Ben's blog can be found here

 

This looks to be a good way of doing it if circumstances permit BUT...

 

One of our club layouts has a functional triangular junction in it so you can never tell which way round a wagon will be when it arrives in a goods yard to be shunted. This has stopped me experimenting with a large number of supposedly good so-called auto-coupling systems in the past.

 

Elliott

[Ben Alder]

Ben's blog can be found here

 

This looks to be a good way of doing it if circumstances permit BUT...

 

One of our club layouts has a functional triangular junction in it so you can never tell which way round a wagon will be when it arrives in a goods yard to be shunted.? ? This has stopped me experimenting with a large number of supposedly good so-called auto-coupling systems in the past.

 

Elliott

Thanks for the link-a skill I've not yet mastered

 

 

Richard

 

 

[jimikelly]

Ben's blog can be found here

 

This looks to be a good way of doing it if circumstances permit BUT...

 

One of our club layouts has a functional triangular junction in it so you can never tell which way round a wagon will be when it arrives in a goods yard to be shunted. This has stopped me experimenting with a large number of supposedly good so-called auto-coupling systems in the past.

 

Elliott

Good evening gents , many thanks Elliott for the information, it seems I Dont have the mounting blocks with my couplings,so Ill just use scrap blocks .and see what happens //again many many thanks to all that answered to my problem ,,,,,JIMI KELLY

[DutyDruid]

it seems I Dont have the mounting blocks with my couplings,so Ill just use scrap blocks .and see what happens

That would explain why you were having problems, presumably what you have is a starter pack rather than a trial pack. The trial pack comes complete with a fret of mounting plates as well as the coupling arms. If you do want to get the real mounting plates they are found on the MSE website as item MP4

 

Elliott