Harbottle Posted November 18, 2009 Share Posted November 18, 2009 Apparently, McLaren are to announce later today (wednesday) that Jenson Button is to join them to race alongside Lewis Hamilton. Some people are saying that Hamilton will blow him away. I think not! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest jim s-w Posted November 18, 2009 Share Posted November 18, 2009 Remember the Senna Prost era? That was good, would this be similar? Cheers Jim Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Oldddudders Posted November 18, 2009 RMweb Gold Share Posted November 18, 2009 Now official. First Brit pairing of champions since Clark & Hill in the late '60s at Lotus, which was breached when Clark died in a minor F2 race at Hockenheim. Button quotes "new challenges" but surely we know every season is a new challenge - vide champ Hamilton finding his car to be a dog in 2009. I'm still convinced this is about greed in a sport that now reeks of it at that level. Button was only offered ??4m to stay at Brawn - which becomes Mercedes next year, I think. How is a chap to survive on that sort of salary - especially when he can earn a bit more through endorsements, and the whole F1 enterprise is wringing its hands about costs. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve K Posted November 18, 2009 Share Posted November 18, 2009 I think it's quite possible that Mercedes didn't want Button, at any price - McLaren have two British drivers, and maybe Mercedes will want two Germans? Anyhow, it's good for the sport, I reckon, if only to see who's better out of Hamilton or Button... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Oldddudders Posted November 18, 2009 RMweb Gold Share Posted November 18, 2009 I think it's quite possible that Mercedes didn't want Button, at any price - McLaren have two British drivers, and maybe Mercedes will want two Germans? Rosberg & Heidfeld certainly fit that bill! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
10800 Posted November 18, 2009 Share Posted November 18, 2009 Each may prevent the other from being world champion of course, letting someone else in, unless the car turns out to be completely dominating in 2010. It'll be fun to watch though. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Fatadder Posted November 18, 2009 RMweb Gold Share Posted November 18, 2009 Button mentioned in the press conference how 'He had been a McLaren fan since a young boy' Don't think this is so much about the money, to him the difference between the 4mill Brawn offered and the 6mill he's getting from McLaren is not exactly much. Going to be an interesting season, will be good to see if Jenson really can up his game with a team mate who I would still class as the best driver in the world. Great news for McLaren though having two top drivers (they are going to need it this year, with Ferrari also fielding 2 good drivers, and whatever German GP come up with. There was also a lot of uncertainty with Brawn post Mercedes takeover, that fact that Mercedes really seem to want 2 Germans behind the wheel would hardly bode well for Button who would clearly expect to be the no1 there (would German GP be biased towards Nico would be a constant thought I suspect....) Roll on the new season! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold RedgateModels Posted November 18, 2009 RMweb Gold Share Posted November 18, 2009 Dear Mr McLaren, can we have the cars green with a yellow stripe please? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Oldddudders Posted November 18, 2009 RMweb Gold Share Posted November 18, 2009 Dear Mr McLaren, can we have the cars green with a yellow stripe please? Fat chance! And, anyway, in 2009 it was Ross Brawn who did a Colin Chapman by reading the regs and interpreting them to the best advantage before the season started. McLaren put so much effort into getting their boy to be champ in 2008 that they, like Ferrari, rather dropped the ball for the following season. But the Mercedes people have been talking at length about Silver Arrows, so perhaps that's the colour for the 2010 Brawn successor? From memory, only Ferrari have stuck to their national racing colour in the modern era. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mucky Duck Posted November 18, 2009 Share Posted November 18, 2009 Apparently, McLaren are to announce later today (wednesday) that Jenson Button is to join them to race alongside Lewis Hamilton. Some people are saying that Hamilton will blow him away. I think not! Well, let's hope you're right, for it will be the end of Button's career if Hamilton blows him away. It will be interesting to see one driver who many regard as an underrated star alongside another who some say has been over-hyped and lucky to have had a winning car from the start of his brief F1 career. Apart from the UK marketing potential I find McLaren/Button deal puzzling. Button has hardly been the most convincing champion ??“ in fact the latter half of his 09 season was painful to watch and it was plain to see that in a less than perfect car he's not that great. Also, 2010 may prove yet again that he can't make the right career decisions ??“ he's thrown away the chance to lead the Mercedes (Brawn) team and have it moulded around him and chosen instead to go to a team which is now built around Hamilton. I know there are F1 followers who would love to see 'good boy' Jenson teach 'spoilt upstart' Lewis a few lessons but personally I can't see that happening??¦ but we'll just have to wait and see. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
LNWR lives on Posted November 18, 2009 Share Posted November 18, 2009 It is certainly an interesting move for Jenson going to the Mclaren stable where Lewis is the chief Can he match Lewis on raw pace? i would doubt it over a season really Can he beat Lewis over the course of a seasons racing where there will be alot more emphasis on smooth driving style and preserving the car, yes i believe he could Looking at the regulation changes they are going to call for a style of driving where you look after the car, dont lock up the wheels, dont slide it around while on heavy fuel loads, regulate your racing pace and look after the car so it is there for you when you need it On paper the regulations suit Jensen more than Lewis so it will be intresting to see who comes out on top I would guess in the end Lewis as he is very much settled at Mclaren and knows how to get the team working for him. It is nice though to see the first all british line up since Hill and Coulthard at Williams in 95 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mucky Duck Posted November 18, 2009 Share Posted November 18, 2009 It is certainly an interesting move for Jenson going to the Mclaren stable where Lewis is the chief Can he match Lewis on raw pace? i would doubt it over a season really Can he beat Lewis over the course of a seasons racing where there will be alot more emphasis on smooth driving style and preserving the car, yes i believe he could Looking at the regulation changes they are going to call for a style of driving where you look after the car, dont lock up the wheels, dont slide it around while on heavy fuel loads, regulate your racing pace and look after the car so it is there for you when you need it On paper the regulations suit Jensen more than Lewis so it will be intresting to see who comes out on top I would guess in the end Lewis as he is very much settled at Mclaren and knows how to get the team working for him. It is nice though to see the first all british line up since Hill and Coulthard at Williams in 95 You may be right about the 2010 regulations suiting Button marginally more than Hamilton but I think Lewis has learnt a lot over the past year or so about car preservation. I suspect that his more aggressive style is partly attributable to and emphasised by the McLaren chassis's shortcomings in high speed corners. Even in 2007 and 2008, the car was relatively weak in this respect and that's where Hamilton tried to make up the deficit. I may be wrong but I suspect that Hamilton will not be too uncomfortable keeping at Button's pace whilst being able to nurse his car. It's when he tries to find that bit extra by stretching a lead or catching someone that he's most in danger of being tough on the car. Where Button really has to up his game is when the car isn't perfectly suited to his smooth, slightly understeer style. If we can have more passing on the track 2010's going to be intriguing??¦ I hope. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve1 Posted November 18, 2009 Share Posted November 18, 2009 I'm not entirely convinced it's the best move for JB and, it does smack of money, sadly. We'll have to see how it pans out. The really good news is that Raikkonen has at last given up. He couldn't be ars*d last season and it showed. steve Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Pannier Tank Posted November 18, 2009 RMweb Premium Share Posted November 18, 2009 The really good news is that Raikkonen has at last given up. He couldn't be ars*d last season and it showed. steve He's apparently wants to be back in F1 in 2001 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
micklner Posted November 18, 2009 Share Posted November 18, 2009 Hamilton will blow him into the weeds. Never have rated him at Williams Benetton etc and his second half performance this year sums him up. Mclaren is based around Hamilton and I cant see Dennis even if he isnt in charge??? its his team and Lewis is his boy. Green and Yellow ? dont think so Mclaren is Orange and so it should return we have had enough years of tobacco packets and Chrome. Be nice for the new Lotus to be Green and Yellow . Bring back BRM in Yardley Colours Thank you Mick Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
invercloy Posted November 18, 2009 Share Posted November 18, 2009 A return to the McLaren orange and white would be very cool now that they've regained independence. I think it will be good, they can push each other and hopefully being both Brits they will get on as they know the British press will just rip them to pieces if they don't (sadly). Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Huginn Posted November 18, 2009 Share Posted November 18, 2009 I think the one thing we are all agreed upon is that it will liven up the 2010 season. I'd go along with those who think it's a bad mistake on JB's part, 'Clan Hamilton' have a lot of influence at McLaren and will not be happy to see JB arrive and challenge Lewis Hamilton's status as No. 1 driver. Like it or not, since the Hamilton - Alonso spat, the old policy of driver equality has no longer applied. It may be paid lip service, but in reality, it's gone. Which is the better driver? What sort of car are they going to get? Hamilton likes his car very lively and always on the brink of a crisis - like Schumacher's set-up - whereas Button prefers to have a car under control, with a very smooth, balanced set-up. We saw that this year, with JB depending on having a car perfectly set-up and Rubens Barrichello being able to take a car and wring every ounce of performance out of it, even though it may be inferior to other cars on the grid. So are the McLaren team going to be able to produce a car to suit both of their drivers' style? Could be tricky and I'd bet Hamilton's more likely to get his way than the new boy... The other thing is that Hamilton is seen as the more 'racier' driver - despite JB's overtakes this season. He's probably got better PR. After all, he's always fallen lucky, this year was the first time Hamilton has had to struggle with a car that is less than perfect whereas Button has had many years experience of inferior cars... Yes, LH had a good second half, but most of the credit to that must go to the McLaren mechanics for their work in improving the car. The true test of a person is how they behave when things go wrong. Everyone can be great when luck's running their way, but when it's all going wrong, how do you cope with things then? Button used to stay reasonably positive. Hamilton - well, he gets rattled, as China 2008 and Australia 2009 show. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
LNWR lives on Posted November 19, 2009 Share Posted November 19, 2009 You may be right about the 2010 regulations suiting Button marginally more than Hamilton but I think Lewis has learnt a lot over the past year or so about car preservation. Where Button really has to up his game is when the car isn't perfectly suited to his smooth, slightly understeer style. I think you have hit it on the head here, Lewis can up his game like Schumacher could in a car which doesnt deserve to be where it is whilst when Jensen has a car which has under or over steer in the set up which cant be dialed out he cant seem to drive around it and adapt his style as readily In fairness too your other point Lewis has had to learn about car preservation alot more this year and looking after his machinery because realistically at the start of the year it was only good for trundling round the track but you do have to take your hats off to Mclaren who gave him a much improved car A bad year for Lewis has helped others no end, but it has also helped him in terms of his development and maturing to become a more complete package of a racing driver Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harbottle Posted November 19, 2009 Author Share Posted November 19, 2009 "..... Button has hardly been the most convincing champion ....." Well, he scored more points and won more races than any other driver did this season. What more does he need to do? When Hamilton won the GP2 championship he had a strong early part of the season then Piquet Jr gradually caught him up towards the season end, the championship being decided at the last race. Entirely new ball-game next year without refuelling. Lewis is going to have to calm down. Jensons' smooth driving style could pay dividends having to start the race on full tanks to run the race distance. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mucky Duck Posted November 19, 2009 Share Posted November 19, 2009 "..... Button has hardly been the most convincing champion ....." Well, he scored more points and won more races than any other driver did this season. What more does he need to do? When Hamilton won the GP2 championship he had a strong early part of the season then Piquet Jr gradually caught him up towards the season end, the championship being decided at the last race. Entirely new ball-game next year without refuelling. Lewis is going to have to calm down. Jensons' smooth driving style could pay dividends having to start the race on full tanks to run the race distance. Obviously there are pro Hamilton camps and pro Button camps who both have their strong opinions already on who is the better driver. In my reply to your observations all I can say is that in GP2 Hamilton won races throughout the year and produced arguably the best GP2 drive to date late on in the season at Turkey??¦ and he wasn't out-driven by his team-mate. It was also Piquet's second season in GP2 ??“ Hamilton's first. As for Hamilton needing to calm down, I don't understand that I'm afraid. This year he had one major shunt of his own making ??“ at Monza when driving the wheels off trying for a podium on the last lap??¦ but then he had nothing to lose! This year, all Button's wins were in a vastly superior car in the first half of the season and credit to him, he made the most of it but he was comprehensively out-driven by his own team-mate in the second half of this season and it was partly Ruben's bad luck and Red Bull's failure to capitalise on Button's very poor performances that enabled him to hang on and take the title. Even his 'heroic' drive in Brazil was bettered by Vettel and Hamilton. The fact that Button has been in F1 for 10 year and his worthiness is still under so much scrutiny by those in the business must say something. I have nothing against the guy, I just don't think he's top drawer??¦ but I'm willing to be proven wrong next season. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve K Posted November 20, 2009 Share Posted November 20, 2009 Forget Hamilton v Button, just for a moment - there are strong rumours today (reported in the Telegraph, for instance) that Mercedes are in talks with Michael Schemacher for a 2010 drive! And yes, I did check my watch to see that it wasn't April 1st before I typed that... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
LNWR lives on Posted November 20, 2009 Share Posted November 20, 2009 Starnger things have happened, and it would be awesome if he came back Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
34theletterbetweenB&D Posted November 20, 2009 Share Posted November 20, 2009 This season having been the first for a long time to throw up a winner unguessable ahead of the racing made it rather fun. JB made hay very efficiently while the sun shone, which is all that can be asked of any driver. But if he finds himself in the overall best car next season, the other member of the team is a driver with a rather good record for converting overall best car into race wins and a championship. JB was fortunate in the timing; there are several much younger drivers who look like joining Hamilton as the dominent force for the next decade, this probably was there or thereabouts JB's last chance year. 2010 should be fun. Vettel is going to be a force if he has a halfway decent drive, and there are half a dozen others who only need a competitive car to be up there with proven champions Alonso, Button and Hamilton. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Pannier Tank Posted November 20, 2009 RMweb Premium Share Posted November 20, 2009 I'd go along with those who think it's a bad mistake on JB's part, 'Clan Hamilton' have a lot of influence at McLaren and will not be happy to see JB arrive and challenge Lewis Hamilton's status as No. 1 driver. Like it or not, since the Hamilton - Alonso spat, the old policy of driver equality has no longer applied. It may be paid lip service, but in reality, it's gone. I presume Jenson will carry No. 1 on his car as the World Champion, so Lewis will be No. 2 for 2010 at least. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
LNWR lives on Posted November 20, 2009 Share Posted November 20, 2009 That would be a correct assumption, cars are numbered in constructors championship finishing order except for the drivers world champion who carries the number one, even if he switches team. Jensen will be No 1 and Lewis No2 at Mclaren. Brawns (Mercedes) will then be No 3 and No 4 respectivly representing the fact they are Constructors Champions, and then the rest of the teams will be numbered according to Constructors championship placings. As in the case in both 92 and 93 when Mansell and Prost left the sport as reigning champions, the winning constructor which was Williams was given the numbers Zero and 2 representing the fact they were the Constructors Champions. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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