marsa69 Posted November 27, 2009 Share Posted November 27, 2009 Spartan Bridge: East Lancashire in 7mm (Are we there yet? No!) by marsa69 original page on Old RMweb __________________________________________ ??? posted on Wed Nov 19, 2008 2:14 am Hi all Well here goes. Like many other people on this site and numerous others, I've long been saying that I'm going to build a layout but never actually managing to do anything about it. I've officially been modelling in 'O' gauge for 14mths but in that time only managed to complete 3 wagon kits but buy plenty of other bits and pieces for the proposed layout that has never come. First a bit of 'history' to the area modelled. I love modellers licence and a huge slice of it has been used in the history, planning and design of this layout. When the Manchester & Leeds opened their Bolton - Bury stretch in 1848 they decided to build a joint line with the East lancashire Railway. The new 'joint' line left the Bolton - Bury line just past Darcy Lever passing through Breightmet, Harwood, Tottington and finally reaching the village of 'Spartan Bridge' in 1850. Spartan Bridge is situated roughly halfway between Edgworth and Ramsbottom and was founded by the ancestors of Leonard Spartan, 30th Earl of Spartan Bridge. It soon became a focal point for local quarry traffic from the West Pennine moors. While the M & L built this stage of the line, the East Lancs built the line from Spartan bridge to join up with the Bury - Rawtenstall line at a junction just south of Stubbins and the junction for Helmshore. The next stage from Bacup towards Todmorden was opened in 1854, giving the M & L and the ELR a new east - west route from Leeds to Liverpool. In the meantime the M & L built a link from Spartan Bridge through Edgworth to link with the Bolton - Blackburn line north of Turton. Within a few years of these lines opening, Spartan Bridge had become a thriving town and a busy railway junction. However like the rest of the Lancashire towns this prosperity and affluence began to wane. The Bacup - Todmorden section closed in 1961, 5 yrs before the Rawtenstall - Bacup and the Stubbins Junction - Spartan Bridge stretch in 1966. Passenger traffic from Bolton ceased the same year as the more famous Bury - Rawtenstall line in 1972 and Spartan Bridge lost all its services in 1975. Unlike the Bury - Rawtenstall line it was never considered for preservation. The line however was never formally closed, only mothballed. In the mid 80's Greater Manchester County Council along with Lancashire County Council embarked on using some of the disused quarries south of Spartan Bridge for landfill purposes and 'Binliner' workings commenced in 1986 after the line was brought back up to operational standards. In 1987, now that the line was operational again, Pennine rail services similar to the Dales rail services were introduced in the summer. These were a success and continued up until 2000. The 'Binliner' workings had stopped in 1997 after protests from environmental groups. The line again became mothballed until Lancashire County Council, Bolton Council and Spartan Bridge District Council, in 2002, looked at re-introducing passenger services in the region to ease congestion on the local roads. Also the local quarry company 'Spartan Stone' expressed an interest in transferring its business to rail if the line did indeed re-open. Limited stone workings commenced in 2006. Also the ELR was approached to see if they would be interested in re-opening the stretch to Stubbins Junction. In the same year a Bolton businessman set up a rail business in Spartan Bridge offering rolling stock repair and maintenance in anticipation of full services being resumed. Long-term plans also looked into buying second-hand locos and stock and moving into the infrastructure market. This company, 'Wolfrail', opened its wagon repair shop in Spartan Bridge in 2007 and has acquired 3 x Cl33 locos for infrastructure and spot-hire work, once the locos have been overhauled. Hopefully 2009 will see the return of full passenger services and longer term a 'heritage' connection to the ELR. Phew Cup of tea time. Hope you've stayed with me until now, lol. The boards themselves are 12mm MDF on 2"x1" battens for support. There are 3 boards in total all 4' x 2' with the end board at 90 degrees to the other two to give an 'L' shape. The boards are in the process of being primed. The boards were actually finished 2mths ago but I couldn't settle on a plan that would give me what I wanted, i.e. two road wagon shed, single platform station, arrival road for a Bo-Bo loco plus 4 wagons of say Grampus/Limpet size and possibly a couple of sidings as well. A lot I know for the space available and in 7mm as well. I also wanted a busy look to the layout but not the 'cram as much track as possible into the smallest space' look. Oh and I wanted at least 5' radius curves I know, I know, not much to ask for I hear you say The planning part has caused my hair to go greyer and thinner and I was on the verge of giving up when I had a Eureka moment last night and it all came together. I'm no good with computer programs for planning so after making some homemade templates and using the bits of track I already have, here is what I came up with. The lines to the left and right hand edges are the old 'down & up' lines respectively to and from Bolton. Only the 'down' line is in use with the 'up' line to the right being used as a siding. Where the loco is will be the fiddle yard. The cardboard box is the site of the wagon works with a stabling siding next to it. At the back of the works will be a retaining wall with the 'down & up' lines disappearing into tunnels. In the bottom right of the picture I was thinking of having a short loco stabling siding but I'm undecided yet The station will be single platform where the piece of batten is to the right of the other 33. The 3 way point is the entrance to the yard and the old 'up' platform to Stubbins and Blackburn will be modelled as derelict in the top left hand corner. The space on the right on the 'L' shaped bit will be the station approach. Another siding from the bottom right of this photo is planned longer term and will end opposite the 3 way point. At the moment operation will be DC but longer term I want to go down the DCC route. Track will be a mixture of Peco, C&L and Marcway. The homemade templates are obviously not exact but are near enough to tell me if it's all going to fit. The curve templates are supposed to be 6' but in reality the curves will vary from 5'6" to 6', more than enough for the biggest of locos. Time period will be from the mid 80's onwards, or pretty much what I feel like at the time. There are no plans to exhibit the layout but you never know what could happen in the dim and distant future This will be a slow thread as time and resources are not plentiful, like a lot of other people. But I do want to take my time and get it right the first time and enjoy it as well. Feel free to comment, good or bad, and don't hesitate to pick holes in my timeline if you spot any mistakes. Also any tips or advice no matter how small are definitely welcome. This is my first serious attempt at a layout and I just hope that I can keep my sense of humour best regards, Mark __________________________________________ Comment posted by mines a pint on Wed Nov 19, 2008 2:27 am Firstly it looks like you are doing the planning properly, using point templates etc. should make sure everything fits! Is the 3 -way available in O gauge (or are you going to build it)- thats my only reservation! Otherwise it looks well thought out. __________________________________________ ??? posted on Wed Nov 19, 2008 2:32 am Hi Russ, thanks for the comments. The 3 way is available from Marcway ready built according to their website. It's not cheap at ??????�??72 but it gives me what I want operationally and saves me the hassle of building a complex bit of track, regards, Mark __________________________________________ Comment posted by mines a pint on Wed Nov 19, 2008 9:21 am marsa69 wrote: Hi Russ, thanks for the comments. The 3 way is available from Marcway ready built according to their website. It's not cheap at ??????�??72 but it gives me what I want operationally and saves me the hassle of building a complex bit of track, regards, Mark well nothings cheap in 7mm! __________________________________________ ??? posted on Wed Nov 19, 2008 10:38 pm Quick update Snow has come early to East Lancashire and particulary Spartan Bridge. Everything has a nice white covering. Finished priming the last of the timber tonight and also made another set of legs to give added support where the two boards connect for the 'L' shaped bit. The only woodworking I need to do now is to put a cross brace under each board. I didn't do this when I first built the boards as I didn't know where the points would end up being placed and it would just be my luck that I'd have placed the cross piece slap bang where the point motor would go. So once I've cut-out the slots for the motors I can fit the last pieces of timber and crack on with the good stuff of track laying, regards, Mark __________________________________________ Comment posted by peejay on Thu Nov 20, 2008 8:08 am marsa69 wrote: Hi Russ, thanks for the comments. The 3 way is available from Marcway ready built according to their website. It's not cheap at ??????�??72 but it gives me what I want operationally and saves me the hassle of building a complex bit of track, regards, Mark Not speaking from experience, but you might have to cope with a height difference between Marcway and Peco - I assume the track shown in your pics is Peco - because the rail is soldered directly to the copperclad sleepers, ie no chairs to lift the rail. Peter __________________________________________ Comment posted by F-UnitMad on Thu Nov 20, 2008 8:19 am mines a pint wrote: ...well nothings cheap in 7mm! yes, you do have do readjust your view of what constitutes a "bargain"... Nice to see another minimum-space O scale layout... interesting plans- keep the pictures coming... __________________________________________ Comment posted by Kenton on Thu Nov 20, 2008 3:46 pm marsa69 wrote: There are 3 boards in total all 4' x 2' with the end board at 90 degrees to the other two to give an 'L' shape. Interesting idea - I have a 3-way and am wondering what to do with it (after building it of course ) The plan looks like it is still "WIP" is the intention to lay track round the corner of the 'L' on to the 3rd board? in the photo it looks like it ends in straight sidings. __________________________________________ ??? posted on Thu Nov 20, 2008 4:45 pm Thanks for all your comments so far guys The plan looks like it is still "WIP" is the intention to lay track round the corner of the 'L' on to the 3rd board? in the photo it looks like it ends in straight sidings. I put a brief description with the second photo of my initial thoughts but seeing as Kenton has asked the question I think it's time I elaborated. In the second picture where the piece of wood is next to the 33 is where my station will be. The rest of the 'L' shaped board will just be scenic initially i.e the station approach. Eventually though i'm going to install a turnout at the fiddle yard entrance and then lay either a single siding or maybe two at the most. These will be set into cobbles to represent an old yard and only used occasionally for p-way trains. I will need to add a small corner piece where the two boards meet though if I decide to have two sidings. If I leave the boards as they are then it'll just be the one siding and like I mentioned previously it will end opposite the 3 way point. Long enough for plant stock and the odd loco movement. Originally the 'L' shaped bit was going to be the fiddle yard but it would have meant the track set to 4' radius ouch, just too sharp. My son is threating to move out (hurry up ) so I was thinking of moving into the new spare room which would mean that I could extend that part of the board to 10' in length. But the issue with the curvature put me off. Instead though, as and when he delivers on his threat , I could probably extend one of the sidings (with the help of the infill corner piece and depict an old coal yard/cripple sidings or something similiar. But that is firmly staying in the old pipeline for now. So my priorities is to get the yard, yard entrance and station sections up and running as these are the heart of the plan. Everything else will be slowtime so that I'm not wasting time and effort in say laying and ballasting a piece of track just to rip it up again with a mod to the plan. Like every other layout it's going to be a WIP. Like it's known 'no layout is ever truly finished'. Just like the real thing I suppose, toodle pip, Mark __________________________________________ Comment posted by stubby47 on Thu Nov 20, 2008 4:57 pm You could extend the line by putting the station partly on the L board, so the track forms a large arc. You'd still get your large radius curves, but could extend the length of the running track (ok by a few inches, but it might help). You could then put the 'old' lines where your other track is (the non-platform one) at the far back right of the board. If any of that makes sense... Stu __________________________________________ ??? posted on Thu Nov 20, 2008 5:12 pm Hi Stu, I had thought of something similiar. It would mean bending the plan 'round' and having the station in the corner and being able to fit a few more sidings into the top left corner. Of course, if I can get my hands on the other room and extend that 'L' shape board out to 10' then I'd have the room to make the station into a 2/3 platform affair with sidings as well. Also I'd be able to expand the wagon shop to include the top left hand corner. Kids eh Anybody want a lodger because I want the other double bedroom Mark __________________________________________ ??? posted on Thu Nov 20, 2008 10:33 pm Hi all Decided to have a bit of a re-think after stu jogged my memory on a few ideas I'd previously had. The fact that a room move could be on the horizon, and the fact that if it comes off I'd get an extra 4' minimum on the short end, means that I can utilise the space differently. I'll tell you what! Why don't I show you? Here the fiddle yard is still in the same place but the 'up' line has moved from the far right into the middle where the 33 is (It will still be a siding at this stage). The two sidings which were formerly the wagon shop are now a headshunt and a re-fuelling road for the right hand siding. The wagon works vehicle entrance and offices can now be modelled to the far right side/corner. Now the 'L' shape part of the board has had a major re-think. You can see the two former mainlines curve off to the right (enabling possible future expansion). The crossover in the bottom right will have to be achieved by using the new PECO curved point that they are bringing out. Not sure on the radii of the points but it should give me what I need. Where the train is parked is the 'up' line arrival road for the works. The wagon shop, bigger now, is again where the brown box is. This time though I can have a stabling road to the left of it. Also ,the blue box is where a 'paint shop' can be located to add further scope. I can still model a small halt in the top right corner on the 'down' line. I liked my first plan but it did 'waste' alot of space. I think this plan gives a lot more operational scope and keeps all my original planning requirements. The only thing is that some of the curves will come down to 5' instead of 6' like on the first plan. But this is still within limits. The new plan also gives me more scenic potential as well. All I need to do to achieve all this is to add a small corner piece into the crook of the 'L' joint. Observations, comments and general ideas welcome as always, regards, Mark __________________________________________ Comment posted by F-UnitMad on Fri Nov 21, 2008 12:52 pm That's good! There's a nice 'natural' look to the curves there, and as you say a better use of space... I don't know for sure but I'd say that if the curves are kept in the same direction you should be able to go quite tight and still avoid problems with buffer locking- it tends to be 'S' or reverse curves that cause the most trouble... I speak from experience of US stock with Kadee buckeyes which can go round 3ft radius curves no problem but the longer locos and boxcars have trouble negotiating reverse curves (like in a crossover) at that radius... which is a bit extreme I admit... __________________________________________ ??? posted on Fri Nov 21, 2008 1:29 pm Hi Jordan, Thanks for that. I'd forgot about the problems with reverse curves. So like you say I can come down to as tight as 4' after all (if I need to that is) as it'll be a long time before anything bigger than a Bo-Bo arrangement will make it onto my layout. I still feel like I'm missing something though on the track arrangement but can't for the life of me figure out what it is. Facing crossovers rings a bell, but there's definitely no room on that plan for one. Ah well, I'm sure it'll come to me in the end, probably just after I've finished all the track laying regards, Mark __________________________________________ Comment posted by stubby47 on Fri Nov 21, 2008 1:31 pm Platform ? (Unless I've mis-read your re-design...) Stu __________________________________________ ??? posted on Fri Nov 21, 2008 1:43 pm Thanks Stu, But I've thought of that one already. If I stay in this room then just a small temporary halt will be modelled on the 'down' line in the top right corner. If I get to move rooms then a nice station can be built on the new section, regards, Mark __________________________________________ Comment posted by stubby47 on Fri Nov 21, 2008 1:52 pm Sorry, just found the sentance where you mentioned the halt... If you still think you're missing something - play trains ! If you don't have enough trucks or coaches, use bits of paper. Once you get the hang of how it will work operationally, you might discover the missing bit. Stu __________________________________________ ??? posted on Fri Nov 21, 2008 2:13 pm Cheers Stu. Thats all the excuse I need now. When the wife wants to know whats going on I can say 'Stu said i can play trains '. It's always good to have an alibi regards, Mark __________________________________________ Comment posted by F-UnitMad on Fri Nov 21, 2008 10:40 pm marsa69 wrote: Hi Jordan, Thanks for that. I'd forgot about the problems with reverse curves. So like you say I can come down to as tight as 4' after all (if I need to that is) as it'll be a long time before anything bigger than a Bo-Bo arrangement will make it onto my layout... Well I didn't actually say 4ft, so still try and keep to as wide a radius as possible... you'll still need to watch it with Bo-Bo diesels (it's the overhang that causes trouble), but 4-wheel wagons and smaller shunters might manage it... I know they won't even look at 3ft radius without buffer-locking!!! Sprung couplings and sprung buffers will also help, as 3-links can get a bit stretched between vehicles at these sort of radii... guess how I found out... __________________________________________ ??? posted on Fri Nov 21, 2008 10:53 pm Hi Jordan, I know exactly what you mean. I was on the phone to Marcway today ordering my 5' & 6' track setting templates. When they get here I'll be able to get the curves exact as I want to make a start track laying next week. I'm also going to get my 3 way point from C+L Finescale as I emailed them and he said that he could do me one as a kit. ??????�??80 was the sum he quoted and is a bit more expensive than the Marcway one. But it will avoid any problems between track heights and will look a bit more realistic. Sprung couplings and sprung buffers will also help, as 3-links can get a bit stretched between vehicles at these sort of radii... guess how I found out... Mmmmm.....I wonder how you did 4' curves is something I don't really want to be looking at, but like I said once my templates arrive I'll have a definitive answer, best regards, Mark __________________________________________ ??? posted on Sat Nov 22, 2008 3:13 pm Relief The ultra efficient man at Marcway had my track templates here this morning, and I only ordered them yesterday afternoon As long as I use a curved point for the yard entrance on the 'up' line, then both mainlines will be able to curve around onto any future extension without going below a 5' min radius. ttfn, Mark __________________________________________ Comment posted by wagonman on Sat Nov 22, 2008 4:51 pm There was a long and occasionally arcane discussion on 3-way points here viewtopic.php?f=5&t=32753 which concluded that 3-way points were (a) rare and (B) not used on main running lines, but that tandem or interlaced points were OK, especially if trailing rather than facing. Am I right in thinking that the latest revised plan has relegated the 3-way to the works yard? 14 months? What's the rush.... __________________________________________ ??? posted on Sat Nov 22, 2008 5:07 pm You are indeed correct Richard. If you look at the last photo I posted you can see the 3 way point to the left of the two main lines. 14 months? What's the rush.... making up for lost time I should have got back into this model railway lark years ago, regards, Mark __________________________________________ Comment posted by hartleymartin on Sun Nov 23, 2008 6:41 am If you have to have a reverse curve, have a short-ish straight-ish section between the two curves. This would only need to be as long as your longest wagon/coach or locomotive. Otherwise one way I got around reverse curves on cross-overs was to use one regular and one Y point. Y points have a straight section and a short curved section which make them excellent for getting around reverse curves. __________________________________________ ??? posted on Sun Feb 22, 2009 2:42 pm Hi all A very long and overdue update. Progress has been painfully slow after numerous disasters and family emergencies. Since my last post I have achieved the sum total of laying one point and two sidings At least the woodwork is finished after fitting each board with a cross piece after working out where all the points are going to go. The track has been fixed down to the cork using Copydex and the holes for the 'frog wire' and point motor pre-drilled. I've just got to drill the holes for the power feed. The track is all Peco but on the sidings I cut off the sleeper webbing which has improved the appearence no end. Now I'm at a dead end until I can afford to purchase the 3-way point kit. That would have happened sooner if I hadn't succumed to impulse and bought this little bezzler meet 47238, the latest addition to the 'Wolferail' fleet. Whether it stays part of the fleet I don't know. It's a cracking model that just needs a bit of titivating but 5 days after buying it my car got jealous and snapped both front springs The repair bill was as you can imagine substantial. I reluctantly relisted it for sale but fingers crossed I might be able to hang onto it after divesting myself of some other bits and pieces. But I still couldn't resist a photo call As for the two sidings I don't know whether to ballast them as normal or use a polyfiller type mix to simulate old, muddy, obergrown sidings? I've fiddled with the sleepers by making the spacing irregular and some layed at a slight angle like you would find in real life. I'm leaning towards the muddy, overgrown idea as I don't think you get neatly ballasted track in a yard entrance unless it was a newly built yard. As for further developements my son is finally moving out in the next 2-3 weeks so hopefully Spartan Bridge will have a new grid reference Longer term this will give me the opportunity to extend the layout like I mentioned in earlier posts. This will give me more scope operationally. As always comments and observations are welcome, best regards, __________________________________________ Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
marsa69 Posted November 27, 2009 Author Share Posted November 27, 2009 Spartan Bridge: East Lancashire in 7mm by marsa69 original page on Old RMweb __________________________________________ ??? posted on Thu Jul 02, 2009 7:02 pm Hi all A long time in coming but at last an update. Now that the house move is over and we're finally settled the two main boards were re-assembled at the weekend. After this momentous occasion I realised something I'd got my modelling bug back So I decided to crack on with making a start on my C+L 3-way turnout kit. This piece of trackwork is probably the most important part of the layout as it controls all access between mainline, re-fuel sidings and the main workshops. I'll post progress with this trackwork on my workbench thread http://www.rmweb.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=29905#p715644 (If the site will just let me post it ) Not having much luck tonight, something about an SQL error. I hope this post makes it. Unfortunately I'm off working in Scotland for 2 wks as of tomorrow so more progress when I get back, best regards, Mark __________________________________________ Comment posted by OldBoiler on Sun Jul 19, 2009 8:24 am Hi Mark, Just to say that it has been really interesting to view someone else who is building a minimum length 0 gauge layout. It has given me alot of hope for mine considering mine is just a simple 3 road fan of sidings for shunting and testing purposes really. Though, recently, i've seen other 7mm layouts in similar space with a station, small engine etc and i realise now what i could of fitted in! Never mind, we live and learn! Looking forward to more updates as and when you progress. Regards Old Boiler __________________________________________ ??? posted on Sun Aug 09, 2009 6:29 pm At last......a long overdue update As anyone who's seen my workbench thread will know that I've been busy building the 3-way turnout which is the central part of the layout. This is now complete and just needs installing on the boards. Here it is just temporarily placed for now. I've marked the points where I'll need to drill access for the point motors. Once this is done I can then make progress with the yard area. The new room that the layout occupies in our new house is 7ft wide. So I thought that it would be rather rude of me if I didn't plan on extending the 'L' shape part of the layout by a crresponding 3ft This will give me a much better area to play with for the station. The 'new bit' will slot into the corner of the layout and be the site for the 'workshops'. Because I'm using cork underlay for most of the layout I've decided that the 'works' will be built off the layout then installed when finished. I'll use a ply base the same thickness as the cork underlay and build everything onto this. When it's complete I can just screw down the ply to the baseboard. This, like many other plans, may change at a later date so watch this space Anyway time to go and drill some holes so toodle pip Mark __________________________________________ Comment posted by PCM on Mon Aug 10, 2009 8:02 am Hi Mark, That point looks great, glad to see that you are in your new house, and that you have more room. will this make you change the track plan much Cheers Peter, __________________________________________ ??? posted on Mon Aug 10, 2009 12:23 pm will this make you change the track plan much Funny you should mention that Peter After admiring my handy work last night, and just before I set to the baseboards with a drill and adding holes everywhere, something was nagging me at the back of my mind after looking at the boards and looking at my planning photos for over an hour I finally realised what it was that needed scratching! The 3-way was a LOT longer that I had originally planned for and now there wasn't a cat in hells chance of any kind of radii above 4ft(and thats being generous) getting round onto the soon to be extended 'L' shape bit Knickers!!!!!!! The lovely bit of track that I'd just built had become the spawn of Satan But then a light on high shone down and showed me the way out of the dark times (thats the point where the wife walked in and put the big light on so I could see better ) I've never really been a big fan of straight lines on model railways. I know that for a lot of people its all that is possible with their set-up, but I like the random chaos of flowing lines and curves and odd little sidings that seem to serve no purpose. Bolton station is a parody of this. A nice long straight section from Moses Gate to Bolton then unbelievebly sharp curves off left to Blackpool and even sharper off right to Blackburn. Throw in some even sharper curves where the old DMU stabling was and you can see my inspiration. Now back to the plan. I'm going to replace the 'Y' turnout with a L/H one, then rotate the turnout on its toe so that the R/H siding is diagonal to the corner, the other siding will just peel off in a straight line giving a bit more of a spacious feel at this end. The 3-way will slew around with the L/H turnout so that its R/H road will point to the opposite corner. Now if I use a R/H curved turnout for the yard access then all is solved. I can still have everthing I'd planned on but with a more flowing look to it. Also the curves will now make it round onto the extended board. I've just got to clear out a few things in the room so that I can build the 3ft extension piece. Where I'm going to put it all I really don't know. But I won't tell the wife until I've moved it Here is a rough idea of what I mean. Pointwork slewed with the refuel road aiming off at the bottle of solvent in the distance where the steel rule is. L/H siding where the wagon is. Position of curved point in the left foreground where the template is. On the right is the re-arranged yard entrance. I'm now going to put a small stabling/storage/servicing siding on the right where the other template is. More updates to follow over the next few weeks as I re-jig my work of art tatty bye, Mark __________________________________________ Comment posted by OgaugeJB on Fri Aug 21, 2009 10:34 pm Well that's all looking very exciting Minimum space 'O' can be a lot of fun, and look forward to seeing the finished article !! JB. __________________________________________ Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
marsa69 Posted November 27, 2009 Author Share Posted November 27, 2009 Hi all I've finally moved my layout thread from the old RMweb to it's shiny new home on here. Now that my change of department at work and my house move are firmly out of the way I can now start to look forward to progressing the Earl of Leonards legacy. Not much has been done for a while to the layout but I'm slowly getting to grips with tweaking the plan and having a minor re-shuffle with regards to turnout locations. The small amount of track already layed has been lifted due to my new ideas/plans. C+L timbers and chairs have been purchased ready for a soon to be launched track building push. The 3-way is complete and it's final location identified on the plan. The next biggest infrastructure task is the construction of a curved turnout which will now form the main entrance to the yard (should be a piece of strawberry shortcake compared to the 3-way). Anyway I'm off for me tea and then it'll be time to watch the newest Star Trek on DVD (the planning can wait 'til tomorrow ) regards, Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
marsa69 Posted June 7, 2010 Author Share Posted June 7, 2010 Time for a long and very overdue update. After a cheerful discussion with a good friend I finally re-discovered a sliver of my modelling mojo. So buoyed by its rediscovery I cleared the boards of all the accumalated carp and finally settled on a plan. Using the northern approaches to the real life Bolton station for inspiration I'm aiming to re-create a similiar station approach on my layout. Out goes the wagon repair shop and single platform station. In comes a three platform station (one platform wil be for postal services) each big enough to handle a 2-car DMU. Also a truncated Up line which will be long enough to stable a loco and three stabling sidings with headshunt. Scenery will be minimal as anyone who has seen the northern approaches to Bolton station know that its all walled in, which makes the scenery side of things easier. Progress will be slow and piecemeal I'm afraid so I'll apologise for that now. Once I get the camera charged I'll take some photos of a full size mock up to show you what I have in mind. For now I have a PRMRP Cl47 and 4 wagons ready for use (3 wagons need painting yet). I also have 3 x Lima 33s which are going to be a long term thing as my next three targets are a JLTRT 37, a DMU and a shunter of some description, preferably a DJH beginners 03. This is board 1. In the foreground where the steel rule is will be the exit/entrance to the fiddle yard. The stabling sidings are at the top of the photo. Board 2. The hub of station activity. You can see the 3-way at the yard entrance and the 47 sitting where the headshunt will be. The centre two tracks lead to the island platforms making up platforms 2 & 3. In the foreground the crossover to platform 1 which will be the parcels/passenger/heritage platform. The timber batten indicates the old 'up' line which will be another headshunt/stabling road. Board 3. 'Next' catalogues posing as platforms 1-3 looking right to left. The station will bridge the tracks, a la Bolton, with a road tunnel leading onto the open area to the right. This being where postal and PWay road vehicles get access to platform 1 and various portacabins for the local Railtrack/Network Rail teams. This shows where the fiddle yard will be. Because the size of the room precludes extending board 1 in a normal manner I've had to think outside the box. I'm going to build a simple shelf that will bolt to the bedroom doorframe directly to the front and join up with board 1 where the track leaves the board. It'll be big enough for two sidings, more than enough for what I need. A temporary measure I know until we either a) move house and I get a bigger room or B) hell freezes over and the wife lets me move into 'her' spare room More progress than this has actually been done and I'll post pictures in due course. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
D9JEF Posted June 7, 2010 Share Posted June 7, 2010 Mark, Looking good. 7mm is a scale I have no experience with as I see the cost of stock off=putting. Reading your thread has made me look at that in a different way - thanks for that. Hope you manage to pull off the look of Bolton approaches as I used to spot 31's, 37'sand 47's on parcels, club trainsand cross country sevices in the early 90's and would love to model it. Unfortunately I think I would need a substantial lottery win to do it!!! Good luck and keep us all posted Jeff Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
marsa69 Posted June 8, 2010 Author Share Posted June 8, 2010 As promised , pictures New yard layout and entrance Bar one siding the yard is nearly finished. And heres the station throat, The templot plan in the first picture is positioned to take into account any future move and a proper board being built for the fiddle yard. It was used to gauge just how close to the edge the entrance/exit track would get. As you can see from the second picture the crossover will fit in nicely giving me quite a spacious couple of platforms for DMU or 1+2 loco operation. Initially I thought I'd bitten off more than I could chew but looking at the boards with the track down and the templates in place I might just get away with it, providing I get the scenic bits right and some mock-ups of how I envisage the yard looking Apart from saving to get the bits to build the turnouts I've decided that I'm going to buy C+L flexitrack to save time. I just don't fancy hand-building all that plain track, even if it is quite a straightforward job. But thats something else I need to save for. Thats where things stand now and after todays news that another house move is on the cards this summer I can only gather that someone somewhere doesn't want me to complete this :shock: regards, Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
marsa69 Posted June 13, 2010 Author Share Posted June 13, 2010 Yup! Another house move buttttttttttttt..................................I get a bigger room Now the plan will need another change but at least not to the track plan. I'm thinking of turning the end station board through 90 degrees, I'll lose a platform but gain an extra 2ft on the rest of the station which will considerably aid my passenger workings and general operational potential. I had originally toyed with leaving as is and just adding a 'proper' 4ft fiddle yard to t'other end. This may still happen but nothings definite until I can get into the new house and measure up. As they say watch this space regards, Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
marsa69 Posted June 20, 2010 Author Share Posted June 20, 2010 Hello all, well a first today sees a loco move under its own power in the yard. I spent the last two days putting to use some old 'speaker' wire and wiring in an isolation section in one of the sidings, cross board power feeds and having the fun of dismantling the two peco turnouts in the yard to make them work properly. I've never seen a couple of turnouts so in need of some TLC (that'll be the last time I ever buy 2nd hand track off the bay of flea ) and a damned good clean as well. Even with a fibre glass pen they're STILL dirty in places, so it's a good job that I did use them for the yard only. The only downside to all this is the discovery I made about the way I built my 3-way turnout. I've used the plastic cosmetic fishplates which came with the kit and whilst they look good the one thing that they DON'T do is conduct electricity I've obviously realised that the plastic ones are great where there isn't an actual break in the rail but I should have got some brass ones for where the actual breaks are. I'm tempted to email C+L and suggest that a small quantity of brass fishplates in their kit wouldn't go amiss. Now I can either order the brass ones and remove the plastic ones OR solder lots of little pieces of locking wire all across the turnout I think I'll be ordering the proper brass ones, regards, Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allegheny1600 Posted June 20, 2010 Share Posted June 20, 2010 Hi Mark, Only just discovered this thread and i do admire you for sticking with it through all your trials and tribulations! Looking like a rather nice layout coming together there, you're certainly adding to my continuing admiration of 0 gauge - i'm going to have to get going in this scale! Wishing you luck in your endevours, John E. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
P.C.M Posted June 21, 2010 Share Posted June 21, 2010 Hi Mark, Great to see you making some progress, even though you have to move house again. I haven't done anything in 7mm for a while as the 4mm is taking up all my time at the moment. I did pick up an OBA kit when I was in the UK, back in Feb. Cheers Peter. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
marsa69 Posted June 23, 2010 Author Share Posted June 23, 2010 Well thats the house move booked for in 3 weks time but would you believe it? We could have another move in Jan 2011 You really, really couldn't make it up At least least I've been keeping the layout ticking over by carrying on wiring the yard up and laying the sleepers for the last of the sidings. Just need to order some more now so I can finish off said siding and make a start on the station throat, regards, Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold bcnPete Posted October 23, 2010 RMweb Gold Share Posted October 23, 2010 Hi Mark, I only managed to find this after you had commented on my 7m layout thread I am glad to see I am not the only one who uses paper templates and boxes to simulate the proposals....although having based mine on the Wenfordbridge prototype, I don't get to do any track plan tweaks - it is what it is I do like the way your layout has developed since you started (especially through all those house moves) but I must confess I am a little confused now as to the latest option - any chance of doing a pencil sketch or some basic computer software sketch to show the latest option? Watching with great interest....I do like that 47 too Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
marsa69 Posted October 23, 2010 Author Share Posted October 23, 2010 Hi Pete, as requested one rough drawn plan (as I'm no good with software programs) The two black squares on the plan joined by two faint lines is a proposed passenger footbridge from the station road to the town centre. One existed in real life at Bolton before being demolished in the early 80s. From my last update the layout is now a straight 16ft long with the fiddle yard partially situated in a built-in wardrobe, making things a lot easier. The two sidings up in the top corner of board 1 can just squeeze in a Class 47 each. The next siding down will fit 2 x 47 and the longest siding a 3 car DMU. The fiddle yard is going to utilise cassettes to save on space. A friend came to visit last weekend and I was hoping he would give some advice on how I should model the junction and two roads along the bottom edge of boards 1 & 2. Instead he commented on the fact that the layout won't have a lot of 'play' value and that I had a lot more space in the room going to waste. He suggested extending the layout into a U-shape but that would mean 4ft radius curves which I'm not too keen on. But it did get me thinking about the possibility of adding an 11ft section onto board 1 to form a L-shape and place the station on this. This new section would also be partially sited in the other built-in wardrobe (strange shaped room trust me). With a 5ft radius curve leaving board 1 where the headshunt turnout is, I would be able to use approx 5/7ft of space for the station. I will draw another sketch to show you what I'm thinking as regards possible extension. Far from thinking I was near to cracking on with things I'm stuck again as to the way forward Any help or ideas would be appreciated, regards, Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold bcnPete Posted October 23, 2010 RMweb Gold Share Posted October 23, 2010 Hey Mark - thanks to do the sketch - its much clearer now I suppose it depends on what our individual aims are - when I was umming + aarghing on my 7mm project, I rewrote down a list of the main points I was originally trying to achieve from the layout (I covered this period of self doubt in my scribblings on my thread I recall) and it really helped me focus and get it back to my first concepts. Not withstanding your friends suggestion, it also depends on what you percieve as 'play value' - I think I probably enjoy more the planning, research and building the layout + rolling stock more than running it for long periods - the thought of shuffling a few wagons etc around the layout for a period of time is good 'play value' for me. I must admit, of all your plans shown to date, I do like the latest one showing the straight board arrangement much more than introducing any tight curves into the mix. I would be inclined to get a plan that you are happy with that meets all your original concepts, but has a degree of flexibility that lets you extend it at a later date without having to change what you have already done. That way, it will allow you to progress but still allows a degree of tweaking as you go on. Hope that helps rather than confuses things. Pete Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
marsa69 Posted October 23, 2010 Author Share Posted October 23, 2010 Hi Pete, thanks for the input. What you suggested is what I have been tryin gto do. My aim all along is trying to recreate an urban snapshot of the very end of a station before it disappears off under a bridge/street, exactly like to the north of Bolton station. I'm trying to create a busy, but not cramped, scene and most importantly I wanted to gi e myself something achieveable to complete. Despite the idea of an extension I really am thinking of leaving 'as is'. I'd rather complete it, then possibly in the future extend it, than keep changing my mind and never getting anywhere. I'm sure I'm not the first to be undecided and I won't be the last, regards, Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold bcnPete Posted October 24, 2010 RMweb Gold Share Posted October 24, 2010 Hi Mark, I think you summed it up well there...you actually said what I was tactfully trying to avoid saying...about the danger of always changing things and never getting anywhere - been there and done that myself a few years ago I completely agree that it is better to start something that is achievable to complete though. For sure, it's good to plan something that has a potential to be extended in the future, but from my own experiences, what usually happens, is that the layout gets to a 'sort of' finished state...and then rather then extend it.....a completely new idea for a project gets started I think the plan above will give the busy scene that you are looking for...and modelling the half station scenario is a great way of capturing a lot in a small space, especially in 7mm scale. My only other suggestion, would be to make a small scale model of it, which I do regularly to check the overall arrangement of massing etc. Pete Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Posted October 24, 2010 Share Posted October 24, 2010 The fiddle yard is going to utilise cassettes to save on space. I'd be careful about using cassettes in 7mm ... the stock is a lot heavier and more expensive than the smaller scales!! I speak from painful experience having dropped a friends 'toad' once and nearly squased it I like the look of the plan btw, it achieves a good amount in the space available. The only suggestion I'd make is to remove the short siding at the very top of the 'yard' end. By removing this you'll make it less cramped but should still be able to get a pair of 47's into the same space as per the current 3rd siding down. I'd agree about not building a U with 4ft curves, but remember that when you're looking from the inside they won't look as severe. That said, not sure how much of the big stuff will get round them. You could always build a short freight only branch used only by short wheel based stock and locos ... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
45157 Posted October 25, 2010 Share Posted October 25, 2010 I'd be careful about using cassettes in 7mm ... the stock is a lot heavier and more expensive than the smaller scales!! I speak from painful experience having dropped a friends 'toad' once and nearly squased it I like the look of the plan btw, it achieves a good amount in the space available. The only suggestion I'd make is to remove the short siding at the very top of the 'yard' end. By removing this you'll make it less cramped but should still be able to get a pair of 47's into the same space as per the current 3rd siding down. I'd agree about not building a U with 4ft curves, but remember that when you're looking from the inside they won't look as severe. That said, not sure how much of the big stuff will get round them. You could always build a short freight only branch used only by short wheel based stock and locos ... Cassettes should work fine (although as Jack points out, can be heavy) but I suggest you fit handles and arrange them such that when you pick the cassette up you can use your fingers to stop stock sliding around when you move (based on personal experiences) between layout and storage area. I would think very carefully what type of couplings you intend using, before considering using a 4ft curve in 0 gauge, especially if intending to push short wheelbase wagons around one. I was doing a bit of adjusting the other night and was closely watching a few short wheelbase wagons (3 link couplings and "standard" sprung wagon buffers) being pushed through a B6 crossing (well over 6ft) and I don't think it could have been much less before buffers started missing, although, working in 7mm "fine" I do accept there is considerably more play between wheels and track than is desirable. regards Stewart Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
marsa69 Posted October 25, 2010 Author Share Posted October 25, 2010 Hello, thanks for the input guys. The plan is going to stay as it is. In the future if I decide I want to extend my layout I will use the short loco headshunt on board 2 as an access road to some ECS sidings giving me a curve of no less than 5' 6", but like I said thats IF I decide to ever extend. The headshunt on board 1 will go right upto the edge of the board but will have a gated fence across it behind the planned buffer stop. If we ever move again and I can gain more room on that end then another fiddle yard could be in the offing As for play value thats not a probelm as I'm a member of The Poachers in Lincoln which gives me the chance once a month to let my stock have a day out. Progress is painfully slow due to real life but I try to manage a little every week, even if it's just a bit of wiring or track construction. I'd rather do a little than none at all keep the ideas coming, regards, Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold bcnPete Posted October 25, 2010 RMweb Gold Share Posted October 25, 2010 Mark - Glad you are going to stick with the plan - little by little works for me too...as you say, its difficult to balance the hobby with the pressures of modern life. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
marsa69 Posted December 5, 2010 Author Share Posted December 5, 2010 Very brief and overdue update. The 3rd board has been assembled and all 3 boards are now bolted together. The cork underlay for the two furthest lines on board 3 is fixed down and I have now made a start on constructing the crossover for board 2 In between college assignments and work I'm hoping to have the crossover completed by christmas this year Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlackRat Posted December 5, 2010 Share Posted December 5, 2010 Great to see steady progress being made! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
P.C.M Posted December 6, 2010 Share Posted December 6, 2010 Hi Mark, Always good to see an update, the crossover looks good so far. Cheers Peter. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
marsa69 Posted December 10, 2010 Author Share Posted December 10, 2010 A new addition trundled into town today And was immediately put to work on the PW train Locos earn a living round these parts and will no doubt get very dirty in time and very used Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Posted December 10, 2010 Share Posted December 10, 2010 Nice to see the haulage firm didn't get too badly stuck in the snow ... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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