Nortonian Posted November 29, 2009 Share Posted November 29, 2009 Watch this space, a pair of LNER J27`s will be coming to a screen near you. Soon ! Kindest Ian Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
LNERJP Posted November 29, 2009 Share Posted November 29, 2009 Ok you have my attention, I'm watching. J.P. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
3 link Posted November 29, 2009 Share Posted November 29, 2009 So am I :icon_yawn:. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nortonian Posted November 29, 2009 Author Share Posted November 29, 2009 Tender parts being cut as we speak !. Found two sets of tender wheels in the spares box, may as well use them up, eh ?. Your J27 must be nearly finish by now JP ?. Is there a build thread ?. One of these two will be 65880 with extended smokebox. Too much choice for the second one as yet. TBC Ian Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
7mm Mick Posted November 29, 2009 Share Posted November 29, 2009 Ian, I'll be watching this one closely as well. Whilst on the subject of cutting out main component parts I wanted to ask about the process. Now you've inspired me with your various scratch building threads I have begun to contemplate scratch building a chassis for a D49 i'm building (which I think you saw breifley). I'm guessing I need to obtain some acurate 7mm/ft drawings and work from those. What thinkness material do I need for main frames? And do I just scribe, cut out and file the frames as per the drawing, taking into account suitable horn guides etc... I appreciate it's probably much more difficult than that but I suppose I have to start some where and you seem the right man to ask , Thanks Mick Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
LNERJP Posted November 29, 2009 Share Posted November 29, 2009 Your J27 must be nearly finish by now JP ?. Is there a build thread ?. That oh yea, I finished it yonks ago. What's that, you want to see some pictures, are well, errrr . Truth is I became increasingly unhappy with the whitemetal running plate which does not hold it's shape to well and is nearly 1mm thick for what is 3/8 plate on the protertype, so it's awaiting a scratchbuilt runing plate and has therefore moved to the back of my bench, while I try and clear it of other half finished kits. If you just so happen to take any pictures of a J27 in darlington one day, could I request you e-mail me a copy please. J.P. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nortonian Posted November 29, 2009 Author Share Posted November 29, 2009 Ian, I'll be watching this one closely as well. Whilst on the subject of cutting out main component parts I wanted to ask about the process. Now you've inspired me with your various scratch building threads I have begun to contemplate scratch building a chassis for a D49 i'm building (which I think you saw breifley). I'm guessing I need to obtain some accurate 7mm/ft drawings and work from those. What thinkness material do I need for main frames? And do I just scribe, cut out and file the frames as per the drawing, taking into account suitable horn guides etc... I appreciate it's probably much more difficult than that but I suppose I have to start some where and you seem the right man to ask , Thanks Mick Hello Mick, If you follow the K1 thread this week, you will get an idea of the marking/cutting out process. Although it is only the tender this week, it is already documented and can be shown here to give an initial idea of how I work. You really need to get a copy drawing for the D49 from the NRM. This can be obtained from the OPC lists. You just walk into the Search engine, ask for the OPC lists, go through the LNER lists and make a note of the drawing numbers you want. Give your list to the assistant, and they will sit you down at a Microfiche viewer and double check it is what you want !!!!!!!!!, otherwise you will end up with an LSWR left handed coathook.. Engine drawings are often spread over two drawings, so you`ll need both parts. They will give you both parts to view. Fill in the order form and wait about three/four weeks for them to arrive. I always order A1 size. Micknich and I talked earlier this week about meeting up at York soon for a few hours, so maybe that might be a good time for you to come along. Once you have the drawings, you need to scale your own drawing off it and remember, your model chassis will be slightly different to the real thing, ie, no frames above the runningplate, they are separate on our O gauge models. I can help you out later as regards the scaling, they usually work out about 21.08-Ft or something ridiculous. You will need some 0.028" Nickel Silver sheet for the frames. The best place to go is Metalsmith or Eileens Emporium. Metalsmith will cut you some strips off your sheet on the guillotine if you ask nicely. Saves a bit of work at home if you know the sizes you want. Frame spacers in most kits are 1". You building a 4-4-0 could get away with 27mm as the coupled wheelbase is so small, but I would go for 26mm as your first attempt. Hornblocks/guides can be bought to save you making your own, but I always make mine if I can. You will be able to see this on my threads soon, but you can get a basic idea on the K1 tender thread this week as I add the chassis build. Any questions, you know where to come. Regards Ian Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nortonian Posted November 29, 2009 Author Share Posted November 29, 2009 Hi JP, The boilerless J27 should be in the shed at Darlington tomorrow night. If I get the chance, I will crawl all over it and take some more photographs. I have a few already but the engine was chocked up off the rails last time I saw it, so got more underneath views that anything else. I`ll post on here for you when I return. As I said to you a while ago, I was quite shocked to see the Piercy J27 made mostly out of lead. Sheet material needs to be just that, sheet !. Kindest Ian Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
7mm Mick Posted November 30, 2009 Share Posted November 30, 2009 Hello Mick, If you follow the K1 thread this week, you will get an idea of the marking/cutting out process. Although it is only the tender this week, it is already documented and can be shown here to give an initial idea of how I work. You really need to get a copy drawing for the D49 from the NRM. This can be obtained from the OPC lists. You just walk into the Search engine, ask for the OPC lists, go through the LNER lists and make a note of the drawing numbers you want. Give your list to the assistant, and they will sit you down at a Microfiche viewer and double check it is what you want !!!!!!!!!, otherwise you will end up with an LSWR left handed coathook.. Engine drawings are often spread over two drawings, so you`ll need both parts. They will give you both parts to view. Fill in the order form and wait about three/four weeks for them to arrive. I always order A1 size. Micknich and I talked earlier this week about meeting up at York soon for a few hours, so maybe that might be a good time for you to come along. Once you have the drawings, you need to scale your own drawing off it and remember, your model chassis will be slightly different to the real thing, ie, no frames above the runningplate, they are separate on our O gauge models. I can help you out later as regards the scaling, they usually work out about 21.08-Ft or something ridiculous. You will need some 0.028" Nickel Silver sheet for the frames. The best place to go is Metalsmith or Eileens Emporium. Metalsmith will cut you some strips off your sheet on the guillotine if you ask nicely. Saves a bit of work at home if you know the sizes you want. Frame spacers in most kits are 1". You building a 4-4-0 could get away with 27mm as the coupled wheelbase is so small, but I would go for 26mm as your first attempt. Hornblocks/guides can be bought to save you making your own, but I always make mine if I can. You will be able to see this on my threads soon, but you can get a basic idea on the K1 tender thread this week as I add the chassis build. Any questions, you know where to come. Regards Ian Thanks Ian, I think without your help I wouldn't attempt to build a scratch built anything. I've checked with the boss and she stamped my pass for a fact finding mission to the NRM, so if you let me know i'll see you both there. At least this way you can keep me right and I won't look like a fish out of water!! Do you know of a trader that will supply good quality castings for the hornguides/blocks and also things like the smoke box door and back head etc.........I'll keep a close eye on the k1 Build and your other threads for inspiration and guidence, Many thank Mick PS I hope they can supply Nickel Silver in large sheets to allow for lots of mistakes Many Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scale7JB Posted November 30, 2009 Share Posted November 30, 2009 Ian, do you swear by the real drawings so much that you wouldn't even think of using the Isinglass drawings ? Have you used Isinglass before? Just wondering what your thoughts were?? I should imagine they wouldn't be much cop for things like inside valve gear, but how about for general arrangement drawings ? JB. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nortonian Posted December 1, 2009 Author Share Posted December 1, 2009 Hello Mick, Hornguides/blocks are a bit of a grey area as regards suppliers at present, some of which are quite expensive !. The former Fourtrack Models Horns are now supplied by Gladiator and are probably the easiest to use. In my forthcoming threads, you will see how I make my own guides using square hornblocks I picked up many years ago which I have not seen for quite some time. I intend to chase up a new supply of these and possibly make them available to others along with other White Metal castings in the new year, which are now also unavailable. For years I toured the show circuits/traders and saw what was available and built up some stocks of my own in case they never appeared again, which is now happening. I therefor suggest you also do likewise and collect for your own modelling future. Many traders are reaching retirement and now just want to model for themselves and not supply to others having done it for 15-20 years or more. You need to checkout the stalls and websites of Andy Beaton/Ragstone models.co.uk , JPL, Laurie Griffin, and Hobbyhorse developments who market products originally developed by that master builder, Tony Reynalds. I have been building up stocks of brass profiles and N/S sheet from the likes of Eileens Emporium for about 20 years. These people will not be around forever, so if you want your hobby to continue for the next 30-40 years, I think you would be wise to follow in my footsteps and build up your own collection of parts for the future. Yes I could meet you at the NRM and may order some drawings for myself whilst there. Hi JB, Yes I would swear by using a real `drawing` rather than anything from the Isinglass range. I always get a pipe and rod drawing as well as a GA if available. I have seen their range of drawings and can confirm that there is insufficient information for `me personally` on their drawings. They can`t tell me the pitch of the rivets and suchlike or frame stretchers. I am sorry if I am not singing the praises of Isinglass, but I do not think they are accurate enough for 7mm. Having repaired the full size locomotives, this really gives you a good insight into how an engine is constructed. Having seen the NER P3 last night, all the cab panels have been removed from the cast iron cab splashers/seats, all the paint removed from the engine frames in their entirety, the engine is just a set of bare metal frames at present. All of what I saw is on a GA, but not on an Isinglass. This is the fullest overhaul 65894 has had. It looks like a new build !. The J72 is now re-united with her boiler and being piped up again. It will not be long before she steams again, sometime early in the new year I would guess. Now is the ideal time for me to get up close to the P3 and replicate as much as practicable in 7mm. Working on the engines again really make me want to go Scale 7, but I would have to settle with an end to end layout. Not discounting it entirely though !. Kindest Ian Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scale7JB Posted December 1, 2009 Share Posted December 1, 2009 Thanks Ian, I shall give the Isinglass drawings a miss then... JB. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nortonian Posted December 1, 2009 Author Share Posted December 1, 2009 Thanks Ian, I shall give the Isinglass drawings a miss then... JB. To show I`m not being biased, take a look on their website and see the B17 sample drawing on there. Now can you tell me off the drawing :- the overall length of the cab roof, the length of the cab liftoff section, the size of the frame cutouts around the firebox, the position of the cutouts, the distance between the boilerbands, the overall depth of the frames, the location of the frame stretchers............................ Need I go on ?????? Ian Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scale7JB Posted December 1, 2009 Share Posted December 1, 2009 I was looking at the very same drawing earlier on... I totally agree... NRM microfiche it is.. !! :icon_thumbsup2: JB. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adrian Posted December 1, 2009 Share Posted December 1, 2009 Hornguides/blocks are a bit of a grey area as regards suppliers at present, some of which are quite expensive !. The former Fourtrack Models Horns are now supplied by Gladiator and are probably the easiest to use. Hi, I agree with all your comments about using the GA drawings and easy to use Fourtrack Models horns. However I believe the supplier is Meteor Models, that's where I got them from at the Halifax show. Gladiator have the loco kits but list any hornblocks as "currently unavailable" HTH. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium ArthurK Posted December 2, 2009 RMweb Premium Share Posted December 2, 2009 Whereas I agree entirely with the use of the GA and/or Pipe and Rod diagrams from the NRM. I feel I must add a few comments about the Isinglass drawings which I use as a handy reference to most of the basic dimseions. The sample drawing of the B17 on their Website certainly does not show many dimensions. However that is not the whole of the B17 sheet. Most of John Edgson's drawings show more than one side view, one is dimensioned, the other is not. I have their V2 in front of me the top drawing shows the left side with virtually no dimensions apart from wheel diameters and chimney diameter. Below this is the right side which has copious dimensions of most of the information that we need to produce a model including roof length, dome position, front radius and length etc. I find these drawings useful in that they also give the major variations during the life of the loco. I admit that many of the lesser dimensions are missing but many of the things that I need are not given on the GA either and must be scaled from it. My biggest complaint about the Isinglas drawings is that they were drawing originally at 4mm scale and I would not attempt to scale off an acccurate dimension. To summarise they are a handy reference but for an accurate model use the largest size GA if possible. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
7mm Mick Posted December 2, 2009 Share Posted December 2, 2009 Hello Mick, Hornguides/blocks are a bit of a grey area as regards suppliers at present, some of which are quite expensive !. The former Fourtrack Models Horns are now supplied by Gladiator and are probably the easiest to use. In my forthcoming threads, you will see how I make my own guides using square hornblocks I picked up many years ago which I have not seen for quite some time. I intend to chase up a new supply of these and possibly make them available to others along with other White Metal castings in the new year, which are now also unavailable. For years I toured the show circuits/traders and saw what was available and built up some stocks of my own in case they never appeared again, which is now happening. I therefor suggest you also do likewise and collect for your own modelling future. Many traders are reaching retirement and now just want to model for themselves and not supply to others having done it for 15-20 years or more. You need to checkout the stalls and websites of Andy Beaton/Ragstone models.co.uk , JPL, Laurie Griffin, and Hobbyhorse developments who market products originally developed by that master builder, Tony Reynalds. I have been building up stocks of brass profiles and N/S sheet from the likes of Eileens Emporium for about 20 years. These people will not be around forever, so if you want your hobby to continue for the next 30-40 years, I think you would be wise to follow in my footsteps and build up your own collection of parts for the future. Yes I could meet you at the NRM and may order some drawings for myself whilst there. Hi JB, Yes I would swear by using a real `drawing` rather than anything from the Isinglass range. I always get a pipe and rod drawing as well as a GA if available. I have seen their range of drawings and can confirm that there is insufficient information for `me personally` on their drawings. They can`t tell me the pitch of the rivets and suchlike or frame stretchers. I am sorry if I am not singing the praises of Isinglass, but I do not think they are accurate enough for 7mm. Having repaired the full size locomotives, this really gives you a good insight into how an engine is constructed. Having seen the NER P3 last night, all the cab panels have been removed from the cast iron cab splashers/seats, all the paint removed from the engine frames in their entirety, the engine is just a set of bare metal frames at present. All of what I saw is on a GA, but not on an Isinglass. This is the fullest overhaul 65894 has had. It looks like a new build !. The J72 is now re-united with her boiler and being piped up again. It will not be long before she steams again, sometime early in the new year I would guess. Now is the ideal time for me to get up close to the P3 and replicate as much as practicable in 7mm. Working on the engines again really make me want to go Scale 7, but I would have to settle with an end to end layout. Not discounting it entirely though !. Kindest Ian Hi Ian, Sound advice which i definatley intend to follow. i'll save up some pennies and make a trip to Halifax show next year and try and stock up on useful items. Your method of hornguides seems to be tried and tested so if you don't mind i'll attempt to replicate it for my future D49 build. Spoke to Mick last night about the NRM trip ao i'll see you in the new year. The P3 overhaul should rectify the injector water control valve I mentioned before Thanks for your help with this, Cheers Mick Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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