00 Guttering

[Campaman]

When we returned home the other day someone had thrown a broken foldable umbrella over our back fence into our garden.

 

I was just about to throw it in the dustbin when I noticed that the frame work was made up of two different size of rounded channel, I have now dismantled it and cut it up and I have a pile of guttering, all it needs is cutting to length and ends and joins made, works for me.

[smudgeloco]

I can see it now - umbrella ribs made of u section - just never saw the modelling application. Great stuff. Some brollies are so cheap, even buying one just to strip it down is still a good option. I will be checking out hte brollies soon.

[lmnp]

Top tip! I'm in the process of cutting up the wife's umbrella.

[Huw Griffiths]

At long last - a practical use for umbrellas!

 

I've never found them much good for their intended purpose - they're always catching in the wind - or poking people's eyes out - the one thing I've never been able to make them do is keep me dry. (I think I'll stick with the wax cotton jacket - idiot proof - even this idiot proof!)

 

Seriously though, this sounds like an excellent idea.

 

This is probably a stupid question, but what metal are they made of? I'm just wondering about the best way to attach them - what glues will work - and what steps you need to take to ensure they stick.

 

My reason for asking is that, in a previous job, I needed to fix strain gauges to a variety of materials - and some materials (even some metals) caused problems.

 

I'm also concerned about chrome plating coming off and sticking into the hands, when handling this stuff - could be an issue when cutting and gluing.

 

Regards,

 

Huw.

[Dr.Glum]

Brilliant observation! Many thanks. Great for 7mm, but how big is the example you've acquired? I've just been and measured a conventional umbrella and the width was 3 to 3.5mm by 2.5mm deep. In 4mm that approx 9 inches wide by 7 and a half inches deep. That's little big, possibly by 100% on domestic. Could be OK on warehouses and larger railway buildings. I'm hoping you'll tell me that you've found a smaller example. Cheers

(Warning: this topic may be hexxed. This is my second attempt at creating this reply. The first time I'd nearly finished when the PC rebooted for no reason. Then, when I had finished measuring the umbrella and went to close it, the ring that pulls the spokes down together separated from the spokes, so it's now a porblematic job closing the umbrella! Shame the spokes are too large for my uses . . . .)

[Campaman]

On the example that was thrown over my fence ther are two sizes of channel, one is measuring 1.5mm wide by less than 1mm deep, the other is slightly larger, I am aiming at using the smaller for domestic and the larger for industrial. Another thing to consider is that the old cast iron type of guttering is/was larger than modern plastic.

 

It was quite a small foldable brolly, suppose could even have been a childs, not checked out the wifes yet, but I guess there will be variable sizes around.

 

I have cut it to length using my dremel clone, cleaned it up with a file, quick rub over with wet and dry and then spray primered, before painting with my acrylic's, I used thing strips of tape to simulate the joins, brackets and end caps.

 

The exabmple I have is made from plated steel, so I just will just use UHU contact adhesive, or possibly Super Glue.

 

One thing I have found is that some materials will not stick with Super Glue but if you paint the objects then it will work.

[Grovenor]

What goes around comes around, this was the standard technique back in the 50s, probably mentioned by Ahern or Beal somewhere.

Keith

[Campaman]

Just googled these two names as I have only really been into the hobby from the beginning of the year, although I did have a roundy roundy as a child, totaly amazed at the Pendon stuff.

 

Anyway I am always looking for modelling supplies for free on on the cheap as no sooner had I decided to give model railways a go I got put on short time at work in January and still am at this point.

 

Currently making up my own texture sheets from the various free stuff around the web using the Gimp and PagePlus software, having quite good results, as though I hadn't planned on scatchbuilding, finances pushed me that way and I am thoroughly enjoying it.

[Cutchie]

amazing

[Coombe Barton]

John Ahern did this some years ago - got the book somewhere.

[Campaman]

John Ahern did this some years ago - got the book somewhere.

 

Hi

 

It would be interesting to know what technique he used for the joins, ends and fixings etc.

 

I am experimenting with different methods, using thin strips of tape for the joins and card for the ends, still got to find an acceptable method of creating the fixings.

 

Cheers

 

Andy

[Coombe Barton]

It would be interesting to know what technique he used for the joins, ends and fixings etc.

Don't know what he did for ends. He used a wire pushed all the way through the building to the other side and soldered the spokes to it. I can't find the book so this is from memory.

[Pacific231G]

Hi

 

It would be interesting to know what technique he used for the joins, ends and fixings etc.

 

 

Andy

 

The simple answer is that for joins and ends he didn't !!

 

I've got Ahern's book "Miniature Building Construction" in front of me and he describes his own method for his card built buildings which is simply leaving a 1/2" strip of card beyond the lower edge of the roof, making a half cut at the back bending this up and then cutting it to the width required for the gutter- usually about 2mm for a 4mm/ft scale model. Most of his roofs used two plys of card so the guttering would be done with just the lower ply. He describes his method as "positively shocking to some people who value a high standard of workmanship: but it is quick and has proved very satisfactory in practice"

He does though also go on to describe Edward Beal's method using umbrella-ribbing .

 

"Lengths of stiff wire are passed right through the building, through pin holes in the walls just below the eaves so that the ends project at both ends. The lengths of umbrella ribbing are the soldered to these wires with the concave side up. The wire supports should be spaced not more than about 2 1/2 inches apart, and slips of paper should be inserted between the gutters and the wall while the soldering is done as a protection to the latter against flux."

 

For down pipes he suggests either swab-sticks if the pipe is straight (I suppose cotton buds - with the cotton removed - would be the modern equivalent) flattened on one side and glued to the wall or, for pipes with bends in them, wire with 16-gauge being about right for 4mm/ft. He suggests fixing the down pipe to the wall with loops of galvanised iron wire about 26-gauge passed through pin holes in the wall and then the ends twisted together behind. Water pipe heads are cut from stripwood and glued in place under the gutter. He considers that the hole in the gutter to allow the water to run into the pipe head "a small detail hardly worth bothering about" There is no mention of gutter ends or joins but I suppose they could be added from thin metal soldered to the guttering as Chris Pilton describes in Cottage Modelling for Pendon (though he wasn't using umbrella ribs)

 

I hope that's useful

[Campaman]

Very Useful thanks.

 

I have found that the cotton buds in our bathroom are actually hollow, and have found that if I slide a unfolded paperclip up inside them I can bend them as a whole which then retains the shape due to the paperclip, like using a plumbers bending rod.

 

Also unfolded paperclips and thin wire, which is then hit/beat with a hammer on a solid metal service creates this metal strip (bit like doing a bit of small blacksmithing) that I have then been using to create joins and fixings, wrapped round and secured with superglue.

 

I did see somewhere on the web where someone had made rollers to create thin metal strip from wire but for the lengths and qty I need the hammer and anvil method works fine.