LNWR D61 Chemical Pan Wagon.

[Trog]

SWAMBO has just bought me an old Jidenco brass kit of the LNWR D61 Chemical Pan Wagon. If you subtract the obvious from the instructions about all that is left is that the wheels were ten spoke and 3'-2".

 

Looking at the kit the basic construction is reasonably obvious, but does anyone have any photos or drawings that would shed light on the details? About all I have been able to find out from a trawl through the internet and my books is that there were three of them and that the maximum load was 12 tons. Also does anyone know the wagons running numbers, and the livery details particually in the later LMS period?

 

Thanks.

[jazz]

Is this the wagon you are refering to?

 

This a Gladiator kit. I'm sure Geoff will give you running numbers. I think you will find they were LMS grey all over.

 

His webste:

http://www.gladiatormodelkits.co.uk/

[John Isherwood]

About all I have been able to find out from a trawl through the internet and my books is that there were three of them and that the maximum load was 12 tons. Also does anyone know the wagons running numbers, and the livery details particually in the later LMS period?

 

"BRITISH GOODS WAGONS" : DAVID & CHARLES - Figure 30.

 

The kit can be made into a nice model with care.

 

Regards,

John Isherwood.

[Trog]

Jazz

 

That looks like the wagon in question, although of course mine is only about half the size. I had seen that 7mm kit but ringing up for details on how to build someone elses kit seems a bit of a cheek.

 

cctransuk

 

35 wagon books on my shelf but of course not that one.

 

 

Thanks for the help gents, I think it should be in LNWR Wagons Volume 2 which is supposed to be published soon. Perhaps I will just have to be patient.

[Leander]

Trog wrote: "I think it should be in LNWR Wagons Volume 2 which is supposed to be published soon".

 

Don't hold your breath. Wild Swan haven't sold enough copies of Volume 1 yet for them to sanction the publication of Vol. 2 according to the LNWR Soc. Unless more copies of Vol. 1 are sold it may never see the light of day despite the authors having all the information (text, drawings & photographs) ready to publish.

[Trog]

Thats a shame as volume one is good, and I have been promising myself volume 2 as soon as it comes out for ages. As I keep needing data on wagons that are supposed to be in it.

[jonhall]

Was this in the LMS specially constructed diagram book page 87? The diagram looks like the whitemetal kit shown further up, and its ex-LNW, but it's 15T 4 wheel trolley code T.Y.M. with numbers 249995 251829, 266111. The latter two are still in BR stock as Flatrol MC's in 1953 but have gone by '56.

 

There is a diagram 86 listed as a 12T pan, but my copy is missing that page - I'd guess these might be the ones?.

 

Dia 85a is a 12T 4 wheel trolley (chemical pan) but it's of LMS origin 233925/233926. This is shown as having a more rounded transition between the platform above the wheels and the vertical of the well wall. Both are still in BR stock as Flatrol MA's in 1953, still listed in '56 but gone by '64

 

Jon

[jazz]

For anyone else interested in this wagon here are some photos of the Gladiator kit I built. This is the 15T Pan Wagon. Only two were ever built, running numbers (LMS) 51829 / 49995.

 

The 20T wagon of similar looking design was a Boiler Trolly and longer wagon than this Pan Wagon.

 

My wagon is painted in such a way as to simulate rust & corrosion painted over.

 

 

 

 

 

[John Isherwood]

Only two were ever built, running numbers 51829 / 49995.

 

My 4mm. scale Jidenco model is numbered M249995 in BR livery.

 

I must have got that from somewhere - but it's too long ago to remember now!

 

Regards,

John Isherwood.

[Trog]

I am starting to wonder now if I have got it wrong and the Jidenco kit is actually the 15 Ton D106, rather than the 12 Ton D61 as I first thought.

[John Isherwood]

I am starting to wonder now if I have got it wrong and the Jidenco kit is actually the 15 Ton D106, rather than the 12 Ton D61 as I first thought.

 

I'm pretty certain that its Dia.87 - for the following reasons.

 

The 4mm. Jidenco kit looks like the 7mm. scale Gladiator kit when built.

 

For some good reason - now lost in the mists of time, it may have been information in the Jidenco kit instructions - I numbered my Jidenco model M249995.

 

Jonhall says "Was this in the LMS specially constructed diagram book page 87? The diagram looks like the whitemetal kit shown further up, and its ex-LNW, but it's 15T 4 wheel trolley code T.Y.M. with numbers 249995 251829, 266111. The latter two are still in BR stock as Flatrol MC's in 1953 but have gone by '56" - which ties up with the number which I put on my model.

 

Jazz says "For anyone else interested in this wagon here are some photos of the Gladiator kit I built. This is the 15T Pan Wagon. Only two were ever built, running numbers (LMS) 51829 / 49995" - which kind of ties up with what Jonhall said except for the discrepancy of 266111.

 

Significantly, I applied a load of 16T on my model - which would be correct for a 15T wagon uprated during WW2.

 

Trog has the drawing from "British Goods Wagons" - it would be interesting to compare it with Jonhall's LMS specially constructed diagram book page 87.

 

I'm just peeved that, according to Jonhall, I shouldn't be running one of these trollies at all in 1961 - and certainly not M249995 which apparently was withdrawn before 1956!

 

Ah well - modeller's licence once again!!

 

Regards,

John Isherwood.

[Trog]

The drawing I now have of the 15 ton trolley appears identical to the etch of the Jidenco kit, so unless the 12 Ton trolley was visually identical to the 15 Tonner. (The difference being made up by thicker plate, hidden strengthening arrangements etc.) It seems the Jidenco kit is for the 15 Ton D106 wagon, or possibly both types if they externally looked the same.

 

Thanks for your help Gents.

[John Isherwood]

The drawing I now have of the 15 ton trolley appears identical to the etch of the Jidenco kit, so unless the 12 Ton trolley was visually identical to the 15 Tonner. (The difference being made up by thicker plate, hidden strengthening arrangements etc.) It seems the Jidenco kit is for the 15 Ton D106 wagon, or possibly both types if they externally looked the same.

 

Thanks for your help Gents.

 

I take it that you are referring to the LNWR Diagram Nos. - rather than the LMS Specially Constructed Wagons Diagram Nos.?

 

Regards,

John Isherwood.

[Trog]

Yes numbers taken from the list on page 190 of LNWR wagons Volume 1.

 

 

I have started assembling the kit, I am reasonably happy with the top half of the kit. But there seems to be something wrong underneath as the plates that hold the wheels don't seem to be far enough apart.

[mozzer models]

The drawing I now have of the 15 ton trolley appears identical to the etch of the Jidenco kit, so unless the 12 Ton trolley was visually identical to the 15 Tonner. (The difference being made up by thicker plate, hidden strengthening arrangements etc.) It seems the Jidenco kit is for the 15 Ton D106 wagon, or possibly both types if they externally looked the same.

 

Thanks for your help Gents.

 

 

the LMS may have uprated the 12ton wagon to 15 ton with a new diagram No

[John Isherwood]

...there seems to be something wrong underneath as the plates that hold the wheels don't seem to be far enough apart.

 

A common enough problem with old kits - you may need to source some shorter-than-normal axles. Alan Gibson did some for Lima models which had short axles - his successor may still offer them.

 

Regards,

John Isherwood.

[Trog]

A common enough problem with old kits - you may need to source some shorter-than-normal axles. Alan Gibson did some for Lima models which had short axles - his successor may still offer them.

 

Regards,

John Isherwood.

 

 

Since I did the last post I think I have spotted the problem. There are four slightly out of square plates with rivet detail down one edge, that fix to the back of the vertical section of the wagon 'floor'. I put these on flat as the pictures of the equivilent 7mm kit show this detail both on the side to side and back to front plates.

 

On reflection the 4mm kit does not have this detail on the side to side plate, so I should have bent it at 90' so it formed the detail on the back to front plate instead. This will widen the distance between the plates that hold the axle bearings, but means that these plates will then need filing down to miss the back end of the buffers. Why oh why do people produce kits and not do a decent list of instructions? Even if you can not do it yourself, just give a couple of kits to other people in exchange for their coments on how to put the kit together.

[Trog]

the LMS may have uprated the 12ton wagon to 15 ton with a new diagram No

 

 

No there are seperate LNWR diagram numbers for both capacities D61 is 12T and D106 is 15T.

 

There are then LMS special diagram numbers for both of these and the LMS constructed wagons, see earlier posts for details.

[Trog]

 

The finished wagon not one of my best efforts, but it will do.

 

Soldering the plates each end that hold the wheels was a pig of a job, at one end I gave up fitted a set of fold up W irons and then attached the plates to the outside of that.

[jazz]

Now't wrong with that Trog. I though I was seeing double as I also have that brake van, (7mm, of course, but who could tell the difference in that pic). Well done, that's what i like about kits, building them gives your grey matter plenty of excercise.