Acciident in South Wales

[45156]

Copied off a topic in Wheeltappers, as this one perhaps needs to be put into a more relevant area.

Ddolfelin picked this up:

 

More sad news this morning:

 

http://uk.news.yahoo...ck-6323e80.html

 

 

What were they doing on quad bikes on a railway line at ANY time - did they think that trains only run during the day -we'll never know - and no doubt this will give the anti-rail lobby another excuse to beat up the railway industry - my heart goes out to the poor guy driving the train - fine, the police need to speak to him but it seems most doubtful that he had any chance at all of avoiding what appears (so far) to be a wholly avoidable accident.

 

I wonder of the message will EVER get through that railways are dangerous places for anything other than trains.

Stewart

[lmnp]

That link doesn't work for me, I think it should be ...

http://uk.news.yahoo.com/21/20091209/tuk-quad-bike-pair-killed-on-rail-track-6323e80.html

[45156]

That link doesn't work for me, I think it should be ...

http://uk.news.yahoo.com/21/20091209/tuk-quad-bike-pair-killed-on-rail-track-6323e80.html

 

Odd - the link was copied and it looks the same - this one does work, though so view the report via it, or try

 

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/wales/8403014.stm

[JZ]

It is now being linked to a robbery at a local store. My sympathy goes to the driver who is evidently in a state of shock.

[Fat Controller]

It is now being linked to a robbery at a local store. My sympathy goes to the driver who is evidently in a state of shock.

I suspect these 'characters' may be known to at least one regular poster on here.

[pointstaken]

It is now being linked to a robbery at a local store. My sympathy goes to the driver who is evidently in a state of shock.

 

Agreed. But on the bright side, two more vermin permanently taken out of circulation.

 

Dennis

[The Fatadder]

Stole ??40k worth of out doors clothing before making their escape on quad bikes down a railway line.

 

Definitely sympathy to the driver who's going to have to live with that, but cant help thinking its a shame that the other 2 managed to get away unhurt.

 

Some of the comments on the article about this on the times website make interesting reading, people going on about how good the two people who died were, and a relative coming out with the "everyone would do it (referring to the theft) if they were in the same situation" and went on to say that they were stealing this stuff to pay for one of the deceased's child's first Christmas. Strangely enough I dont think you need ??40 grand to pay for a 1 year olds Christmas.....

[JZ]

When news came through this morning at work, it was thought they had been stealing cable, as this is a problem in that area. Most peoples comment was "Result" Followed by "do you know who the driver was? Is he OK"

[The Stationmaster]

Sympathy for Driver - maximum,

Sympathy for the poor s*ds who have to clean up the mess - maximum,

Sympathy for those whose journeys were disrupted - consiiderable,

Sympathy for the scum who died - absolutely zero, and their relatives should be sent the bill for the whole clean-up job.

 

And surely if one these dumbos wanted to buy some Christmas presents for his 1 year old he could have sold his quad bike?

[JZ]

Sympathy for Driver - maximum,

Sympathy for the poor s*ds who have to clean up the mess - maximum,

Sympathy for those whose journeys were disrupted - consiiderable,

Sympathy for the scum who died - absolutely zero, and their relatives should be sent the bill for the whole clean-up job.

 

And surely if one these dumbos wanted to buy some Christmas presents for his 1 year old he could have sold his quad bike?

 

Totally agree with your sentiments. Surely a claim can be made against the estates of these two for the clean up. OK, it may not get much, I don't suppose the quad bikes were insured, but it's the principal of it. The shop involved should do the same.

[Tim H]

You're assuming the quad bikes weren't stolen as well.

[The Stationmaster]

Totally agree with your sentiments. Surely a claim can be made against the estates of these two for the clean up. OK, it may not get much, I don't suppose the quad bikes were insured, but it's the principal of it. The shop involved should do the same.

 

 

Going back into the distant past it used to be standard form to claim against the estate of anyone who interfered with the railway in this way (normally that meant claiming against motorists following level crossing collisions, but on one occasion we claimed against a German orchestra for delaying a train about 30 minutes at Reading loading all their instruments and themselves).

 

The costs for something like this incident can be massive and will very quickly reach tens of thousands of ??s - which is great if there is an insurance company to throw the claim at but probably not much use when you're dealing with a bunch of villains where you might face exactly the situation noted above by Tim H.

['CHARD]

Stupid? Undoubtedly.

Ignorant? Definitely - to think the railway 'switches off' at night.

Lawless? Yes, apparently/ allegedly.

Feral? Most likely, certainly seem to be feckless given the attributed comments.

 

...but Evil? Doubtful. More like Darwin Award contenders.

 

This outcome wasn't premeditated, and whilst my immediate thoughts are with the train driver, I can't and won't subscribe to the collective knee-jerk of 'that's two less.' These weren't, as far as we can tell, foes of the railway per se. There is no evidence they had committed rail crime before. They have left bereaved relatives, in the one case a small child, who in no circumstances deserved to have their dad die just before Christmas. I'm of no religion, but my thoughts actually go to all concerned in this tragic episode. Poor silly EDIT idiots.

[JZ]

You're assuming the quad bikes weren't stolen as well.

 

 

Assumed, but not said.

[lswrm7]

Just seen the news and these two clowns mates were laying flowers along side the railway. And yes they were all scumy types. I have had to move house this year because my wife and i had death threats off people like these my crime was to phone the police when i caught one of the local feral kids jumping on the roof of my car. So it may sound a bit harsh but i for one am glad there are two less scum alive. My smpathy goes to the train driver.

 

Regards kev

[br2975]

"...... I suspect these 'characters' may be known to at least one regular poster on here......... "

.

Police responded to a burglary at an 'outdoor activities' centre and store, four culprits were known to have made off.

.

Officers searching the area came into contact with fire and ambulance attending the scene of a double fatality on the SWML near Rumney, Cardiff where two men riding a quad bike away from the scene of the burglary had been struck by a freight train.

.

Brian R

[S.A.C Martin]

From The Times comments found here.

 

leanne shacklock wrote:

HOLD ON 1 MINUTE!!!!!

I am a relative on one of the boys who lost their lives. I have read numerous different reports about the incodent. If we say they were guilty of this crime then they would of paid they're dues in some way for the crime. They would not however, loose their lives as a punishment. The area in which the boys live in isn't exactly filled with opportunity. My cousin has a child which is celebrating their first xmas this year and would need to provide for his young family, if you were in their position i'm sure you would do the same. How would you feel if your family were put in the same position as us. it's easy to post cowardly remarks on a web page, i'm sure if you were faced with my griefing family and my cousins child you would have considerably less to say!!!!

 

Now, I have sympathy for her loss, and perhaps a little sympathy for her situation. But if you remove the heist of ??40,000 from the equation, you still end up with two blokes on quadbikes driving down a four line section of the working railway.

 

For making the decision to cross the boundaries and trespass, they lost their lives. The fact that it was connected with stealing ??40,000 worth of clothing goods compounds the above.

 

I am in no doubt (having watched my severely ill father struggle to find a job for five long years - finally getting a job a few weeks ago, to the family's collective delight) that times are hard, but resorting to stealing of this nature is not how you solve a economic crisis.

 

For starters, you sell the quadbikes and get a few grand towards feeding the families for a few months. Then you cut down on any and all luxuries including video games, digital television packages, eating out, alcohol, and so on...we've had to do that as a family in the worst of worst times a few years ago. We did not stoop to the level of stealing.

 

What disgusts me particularly about the comments on the Times page are those unrelated to the family (who will be grieving, regardless of the circumstances of the event) who are trying to justify the raid because the pair died. Are we saying then, that they had a right to "get away scot free" on the basis of their circumstances?

 

I sincerely hope that the above would not hold up in court.

 

As for the deceased - for the sake of a few jackets one little child is going to be without its father this christmas. Rather than trying to excuse something which is morally and legally wrong, perhaps it would have been prudent to reflect on how much happier their families would have been if they hadn't decided to go down that easy route, to steal - they would be alive and able to share in a relatively poor Christmas. But which really is poorer? The Christmas with them alive, or the one with them dead.

 

In all, my greatest sympathies go out to the train driver, and their families in that order.

[Guest Phil]

On night shift this week we had to make some alternate arrangements to work around this problem. Our first departure from Cardiff was cancelled and started from Gloucester with the crew taxied from Canton.

 

There is no doubt that the prime victim was the driver of the ECS which struck the trespassers, followed by the poor ###### who had to pick the bits up, clean the bits away, and the local constabulary for having to impart the demise to the nearest and dearest.

 

The net result though is one of trespass which happens everyday on the infrastructure through irresponsible people wandering around the railway. The industry is a very dangerous operation where innocent staff are occasionally injured. What chance of preventing budding Darwin Award winners from achieving success ?

 

I have absolutely no sympathy at all with these idiots for disrespecting the people they have stolen from and the upset and grief trailing in their wake. Above all, I hope 5L43's driver will be able to continue his/her career, and to be able to support his/her family in the future. I know of train drivers whose careers have ended prematurely through this kind of situation - through absolutely no fault of their own. Law abiding citizens of substance, who pay taxes and live responsibly. There is no excuse for stealing from other people whether unemployed or not, family or not.

[rob D2]

If the comments here are mildly acidic you should see wnxx.com interactive - blimey.

 

As for me zero sympathy I'm afraid, who's to say my house or car wouldn't be next.

[RedgateModels]

 

As for the deceased - for the sake of a few jackets one little child is going to be without its father this christmas. Rather than trying to excuse something which is morally and legally wrong, perhaps it would have been prudent to reflect on how much happier their families would have been if they hadn't decided to go down that easy route, to steal - they would be alive and able to share in a relatively poor Christmas. But which really is poorer? The Christmas with them alive, or the one with them dead.

 

In all, my greatest sympathies go out to the train driver, and their families in that order.

 

Old head on young shoulders there S, I agree 100%. The driver will be specially monitored for months following this incident. I hope he/she gets all the support they need to come to terms with this.

 

 

 

 

[45156]

What a terrible tale. And what about the comments of the two deceaseds' friends and family members. I wonder how many of them knew what these worthies were up to that night.

 

I once knew a driver who was involved in a fatality and didn't know that until the end of his run, when the remains of the suicide were found on the front of his unit (apparently all he felt was a bit of a bump, which he put down to a bit of bad track - he didn't see a thing) - he had to give up as his nerve went completely and he could not face going out on the road again. Hence, IMHO the driver is the first and main victim of this crime. Close behind are the railway staff who had to clean up the mess to get the services running, then the police.

 

As to the circumstances, economic hardship does not, in itself, justify theft and using Christmas as an excuse is a cop-out . I was out of work for over two years - I was in the City as a financial advisor, and went to work one day with all my usual bits and bobs - car, mobile, etc, and came home with my stuff in a bin bag, no mobile, and no car keys - just a cheque for "loss of office" and a letter thanking me for the four years I had put in, but due to "company structure changes" my services were no longer required. During that time, the car only ran occasionally, 95% of my phone calls were incoming, and most of my meals were cheap cuts, and economy brands - even Christmas was only small presents and a chicken - and I got by without resorting to robbery. In fact, that is the way that most unemployed people (and let's face it, there's plenty of them at present) survive. I did what work I could get here and there (and I would do almost anything as it got me out of the house and away from daytime TV), and whenever I did, my meagre State handout was "offset". Yes, being unemployed is a very degrading and demeaning situation, but in no way does it justify the multiple crimes (robbery and trespass-and probably quite a few more like driving dangerously, uninsured, no tax, etc...) which have been commited in the name of "Christmas".. But one wonders whether this bunch would have been in work even if there was full employment - there seems to be a culture nowadays of work-shyness where the economic climate is being used as an excuse.

 

Rant over - but this one has infuriated me - when I started the post, I had no idea of the background.

 

Stewart

[60B]

My fave comment was the one about how his kids needed the latest games to "survive". Of course there is nothing I can say thats new. But my sympathy lies with the driver and rarely with the latest winners of a Darwin Award.

[59004 ( was Shedcombe....)]

I'm echoing all sentiments and points made.

 

All the best for that poor driver, some sympathies to the family/relatives/friends of the gents killed, but no sentiments at all towards these victims.

Doing two things ( at a bare minimum ) totally wrong is asking for it.

 

Regards, Michel

[Mod3]

Whilst we understand some of the sentiments please remember that people have died in this incident and lots of innocents will be affected by this, including some of the victims family.

['CHARD]

Whilst we understand some of the sentiments please remember that people have died in this incident and lots of innocents will be affected by this, including some of the victims family.

Thank you for injecting a much-needed bit of balance into this thesis on summary justice.

 

I'm unsure what pre-qualifies offenders for the death penalty in the mind of the crowd, baying for blood. Is it the railway trespass in itself, is it paying the price for traumatising the driver, is it the robbery, or actually a combination of all three?

 

If the driver of the train wasn't too badly traumatised, there had been a gap in the fence, the blokes not unemployed and only a Mars Bar had been stolen, would we still be gleefully dancing on these guys graves then?

 

I thought long and hard about hitting the Report button, replying to this thread, or staying away from RMWeb for a while. I discarded two alternative posts but I am posting this because I am sad. Sad about the train driver, sad about people who are so out of touch with our society that they think a life of crime is the only way to live, and sad that other people in that society would rather criminals die than atone for their wrongdoing. Ironically the viewpoint of the latter reinforces the social exclusion of the former.