WR Mk1/2 Coach nos 1980 -1982

[rob D2]

Hi guys,

I would like to get some WR coach numbers which may have been operating in the above period to renumber the Bachmann ones (which seem to be ER mostly)

 

Also if anyone can tell me what a typical west country formation may have been in the period , thinking in terms of paddington - penzance/paignton that direction

[Flood]

HSTs took over all the West of England workings (Paignton, Plymouth and Penzance) from May 1980 so until the Western Region started to replace some of these with loco hauled trains from about 1984 virtually all the weekday workings were HST. Loco hauled workings were numerous on summer saturdays but these tended to be Mk1 stock.

 

Before the HSTs took over the services were air-con stock typically BG, 2 FO, RBR, 6 TSO with first at the London end. Airfix/Mainline/Dapol/Hornby FOs and TSOs can be used, the RBRs were mostly like the old Mainline model.

 

Bachmann have made Mk2 stock (vacuum braked, POIS classified them as Mk2Z and Bachmann incorrectly call them Mk2S) and Mk2A stock (air braked).

 

The 1982 Platform 5 Coaching Stock book (dated to 13 January 1982) has the following Western Region stock:

 

Mk2 TSO

5070, 5072, 5073, 5075, 5078, 5079, 5081, 5084, 5136, 5138, 5141, 5157, 5158, 5162, 5167, 5171, 5172, 5175, 5177, 5178, 5179, 5180, 5181, 5194

 

Mk2 BSO

None

 

Mk2 FK

13386, 13412, 13419, 13425

 

Mk2 BFK

14032, 14033, 14037, 14041, 14042, 14043, 14048

 

I have looked through a few Class 50 books at photos taken around this time and can't find any rakes with these coaches. They tended to be used as required with Mk1 stock as far as I can tell, the first class coaches were certainly used on the Oxford local services.

 

 

Mk2A TSO

None

 

Mk2A BSO

None

 

Mk2A FK

13438, 13440, 13441, 13442, 13443, 13444, 13464, 13465, 13473

 

Mk2A BFK

14058a, 14060v, 14062v, 14063a, 14064v, 14066v, 14068v, 14069a, 14070a, 17072a, 14073a, 14074a, 14075a, 14076a, 14077a, 14079a, 14080a, 14081a, 14082a, 14085v, 14086a, 14096a, 14100a

 

The Mk2A FKs from 13438 to 13444 on the Western had been converted to vacuum brake at Wolverton from 1976 to 1978 so these were used on the Oxford services as well. The last 3 Mk2A FKs would have been spares for use in air-conditioned rakes as replacements. The Mk2A BFKS were built as air brake but, again, some were converted to vacuum braked. These are marked v and would have been used in the Oxfords, those marked a stayed as air braked and were used in the Waterloo - Exeter rakes along with Mk2B TSOs (no centre door, wrap around end doors).

 

So basically the Bachmann Mk2s aren't much use for Western Region West Country Inter City traffic in the 1980s. Sorry.

 

The Western tended not to use Mk1 TSOs (hence the use of Mk2 stock instead) with only 44 in the pocket book shown. Of these the only significant batch are 5023, 5025 to 5044. These late build Mk1 TSOs had Commonwealth bogies but different positioned roof vents to the Bachmann model.

 

The Western had kept only 6 Mk1 FKs (13296, 13297, 13298, 13311, 13314, 13331) and 44 CKs (largest batch being 16199, 16206 to 16209, 16211 to 16219, 16223 to 16225). As stated above the Western tended to use Mk2 stock for first class.

 

They did have a huge amount of SKs; the vast majority were 25911, 25919, 25921 to 25923, 25925 to 25933, 25935 to 25941, 25943 to 25971, 26060 to 26064, 26066 to 26090, 26093, 26094, 26100, 26103, 26105, 26106, 26108 to 26114, 26116 to 26119, 26121 to 26124, 26127 to 26131, 26137. All these had Commonwealth bogies but, again, different positioned roof vents.

 

Finally BSKs. 34110, 34453, 34521, 34528, 34529, 34530, 34533, 34535, 34540, 34547, 34548, 34551, 34552, 34557, 34657, 34660, 34662, 34666, 34668, 34671, 34672, 34678, 34699, 34929, 34943, 34944, 34945, 35044, 35045, 35047, 35050, 35051, 35053, 35054, 35056, 35059, 35063, 35066, 35068, 35071, 35075, 35115, 35126, 35128, 35188, 35196, 35199, 35200, 35204, 35206 all had roof vents as per the Bachmann model and had BR1 bogies.

 

Looking at my notes from 1983 at Dawlish the summer saturday trains tended to have no buffet facilities and only 1 or 2 (at the most) first class coaches. Rakes consisted of normally either TSOs together (Midland or Eastern allocation) or SKs together. One BG or a BSK at either end for brake coaches (sometimes a BFK in the middle). Rake lengths from 8 to 13 coaches.

 

Phew, that took a while.

[rob D2]

Thank you very much Mr Flood, that is appreciated.I shall print that off and try and make sense of it - I am not an expert with carriages !

 

So it seems if I backdated to 1978 or so i would be able to run more mk1s ( and my BR 47s are all 47/0s anyway so steam heat)

 

I am also taking from that the Bachmann mk2s would be no good really (unless I shift the layout to banbury/birmingham/oxford)

 

One more quick question : would the RMBs have any place on the oxford route ?

 

I am trying to generate a bit of coaching stock variety as my next layout will be WR in this period.

[Flood]

Gawd!

 

Right then RMBs. In 1982 the WR had one, 1803, so not much chance of that turning up.

 

Brief coaching stock history of the WR.

 

1968-1969 Mk2A and Mk2B stock introduced on the Bristol/South Wales services.

 

1972-1973 Mk2E air con stock introduced on the Bristol/South Wales services, Mk2A and Mk2B stock cascaded to Paignton/Plymouth/Penzance workings.

 

October 1975 vacuum braked Mk2 stock introduced onto the Cornishman and Devonian cross country services, all other cross country trains still Mk1.

 

May 1976 Mk2A and Mk2B stock introduced onto the Birmingham trains.

 

October 1976 HSTs introduced on the Bristol/South Wales services, Mk2E and Mk2F stock started to cascade to Plymouth/Penzance workings. Mk2A and Mk2B stock cascaded to some cross country services.

 

May 1977 full HST timetable to Bristol and South Wales. Paignton/Plymouth/Penzance workings all Mk2E/Mk2F. All Birmingham and Hereford/Worcester services and more cross country services now using Mk2A and Mk2B stock. Some Mk2E and Mk2F stock reallocated to LMR and ER.

 

May 1979 more cross country services from Birmingham to Reading, number of Paddington to Birmingham trains reduced.

 

October 1979 HSTs on Golden Hind and Cornish Riviera. Mk2B stock starting to be cascaded to Waterloo - Exeter. Mk2A stock moved to Norwich trains?

 

May 1980 full HST service to Paignton/Plymouth/Penzance. Most remaining Mk2E and Mk2F air cons moved to cross country services but some kept for Hereford/Worcester services.

 

May 1982 HSTs take over Paddington to Worcester via Swindon services. Paddington to Worcester via Oxford trains finished, replaced with Paddington to Oxford trains using Mk1s.

 

 

During all this time the summer saturday traffic remained Mk1s. There was also a Fridays Only service from Penzance to Paddington and return and one from Paddington to Bristol. These used Mk1s certainly until 1979 and probably into the early 1980s. RMBs were the buffets used on the Birmingham and Worcester services from about 1973 until about 1979/1980.

[rob D2]

Good man

many thanks

[rob D2]

Hi all,

Just thinking about buying some of the Bachmann version of the above - would they have been seen in the west country circa 1980 -1982 ?

My loco fleet is predominately class 47/0, are either of the above steam heat or were they ETS/air con.

 

Thanks,

Rob

['CHARD]

Hi all,

Just thinking about buying some of the Bachmann version of the above - would they have been seen in the west country circa 1980 -1982 ?

My loco fleet is predominately class 47/0, are either of the above steam heat or were they ETS/air con.

 

Thanks,

Rob

 

The early Mk2s were a mixture of steam and electric/ dual heat and vac or dual brake. Air Con started at MkIID, you would be fine with a blend of the Bachmann MkIIs to run with 47/0s. Although from memory, whilst the date is right I'm not sure how many early MkIIs were native to the Western at this time in their careers, and I'm at work ATM without access to my LHCS bibles

[Mod2]

I hope you don't mind me asking Rob but didn't I answer your question in this topic?

 

Thanks Flood, topics now merged.

[AMJ]

Even as late as 1988 there was a regular time tabled service from Penzance to Paddington formed of MkI's, I know as I had to stand in the doorway all the way from PZ to Plymouth as all the seats were reserved - but I had the last laugh as throughout Cornwall it was double headed 50's and the spotters at plymouth all chased to the train to get on behind the 50's only for one to be taken off!

 

Quite a few of the longer distance commuter trains in 1988 were still 50 hauled MkI's but by then they were in NSE colours. So I would assume that these had been the same for a number of years prior to 1988.

 

I must dig out my photo (1985) of Long Rock (Nr PZ) from the helicopter en route to the Scillies as it shows the MkI TPO stock plus other vehicles in the sidings in Blue Grey.

 

Don't forget the sleepers on the Night train from PZ and the car vans as well.

[DavidB-AU]

If the OP is still interested I have a 1980 WR Passenger Train Marshalling book and can extract the WoE formations.

 

There was at least one BCK too. Until 1980 there was a BCK-SK set kept at Exeter SD for the 0300 down and 0750 up Barnstaple, the former being a parcels/mail and latter being one of the last two mixed trains on BR. I have seen several photos of 31s and 33s with BCK-SK-SK at Paignton which I presume was this set with an extra SK borrowed from one of the other local sets, vice DMU.

 

Cheers

David

[rob D2]

sorry guys,

I'm going a bit senile it would appear.I did search for MK2 coaches but got rubbish back.I thought I may have asked this before.

 

Thanks to all.