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Need help to make a control pannel


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Hi

 

I need some info in creating a control pannel for operating my layout?.

 

 

 

I have managed to trace all wires but now need a bit of guidance to start running locos

 

There is 11 wires remaining

 

1 relay

2 track feed + h & m point motor v3

3 track feed

4 h + m point motor v3 + inbuilt polarit/rail 5

5 track feed + inbuilt polarity/rail 4

6 relay

7 relay

8 power in relay

9 power in relay

10 built in polarity/rail 5

11 track + relay

 

Will i need to make switches on a control panel

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Really, to get any useful help you will need to provide a lot more info.

For example:

Your list includes "relay" several times but no indication as to how many seperate relays there are or what else may be connected to the relay.

Common 2 pole changeover relays have 8 connections, at least 4 of these need to be in use if it is to do anything so to suggest waat your wire 1 might be for we need to know which connection on the relay it is and what else is connected.

Unfortunately Post Office relays don't have visible terminal numbers and you have to look carefully at the contact fingers to see what the various contact sets are.

The coil wires that operate the relay are the two on the bottom side of the mounting screw.

Could you try and draw all the wire you have identified showing what they connect to, then we should be able to see what is missing.

If you have a scanner you can just do pencil drawings and scan them.

 

The files you upload here need to be in common formats, eg. .jpg, .gif, .png, .pdf

the track plan is only visible to someone with 'anyrail' so substantially reduces the number of people who can help.

Regards

Keith

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Hello again

 

I have made a quick diagram of the return wires that go to my layout.

I dont no where to go next in making a control panel anyone have any ideas, most of the electrics are old and it has post office relays for changing the polarity of the double cross over.

Any ideas would be gratefull i have repaired all the track workpost-14164-0-50341300-1335868142_thumb.jpgpost-14164-0-10375200-1335868276_thumb.jpgpost-14164-0-26915700-1335868457_thumb.jpgpost-14164-0-53337100-1335868702_thumb.jpgpost-14164-0-01579100-1335869008_thumb.jpgpost-14164-0-41495100-1335869131_thumb.jpg and have made a switch pannel for the hm3 point motors.

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I agree with Keith, much more information is needed in order for any help to be given. It's like being at the snooker table with a cue and asking whats the next shot? We need to know where all the balls are in order to give the advice.

How have you got into this situation? Have you bought the layout from someone else? Has it been dismantled? Is there a circuit diagram? What type of point machines are fitted? How is the layout controlled? Is it DC or DCC?

The picture you have provided makes me think the wiring is quite old? We really want to help but we do need something to go on!

 

Regards

Richard

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Layout plan looks rather nice but the photo of the wiring does not help much as you have not indicated which point motors the wires go to or which relays, or which track sections.

The relays also look to be past their use by date.

If the point motors work leave the wiring for those in place. For the rest, if it were mine I would just leave the droppers from the track sections and remove everything else.

Better to put your effort into designing a control system to do what you want than put a lot of time into working out what someone else intended to do.

If you had a control panel it might give more of a clue to how it was meant to work but without that you are working in the dark.

Where are you by the way, on site help might do a lot better than trying to deduce stuff by remote control.

Regards

Keith

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I suggest you stick to one topic, opening up duplicate topics in the middle of a discussion just irritates those trying to help.

You could ask the Mods to merge the topics.

 

You have provided a bit more info here than on the original topic.

I assume the white switch panel is the one that is working the point motors.

Can you indicate on the plan and number them for reference the points that you think the relays are setting the polarity for?

I see a controller attached, does any of the track get power?

Do you have a meter to check continuity or track voltage?

 

So far as a panel goes, what skills and access to materials do you have? There are a lot of possibilities, white faced hardboard is cheap and simple and diagrams can be drawn on.

Or you can create print outs on the computer and fit an acrylic sheet over them. Search on here for control panel and you will find quite a few examples.

Keith

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hi m8

 

Yes the white control pannel is the one i made to control all 13 hm3 point motors.

I bought this layout on ebay who the guy was selling for his late stepfather but he had thrown away the controllers by mistake so i had nothing to use and also it needed a lot of work to the track and landscape.

The droppers that are attached to the track with solder where cracked due to age and i did have one loco running a bit but there is a point motor missing which does have polarity switch wires underneath so will have to sort out next.

There is three post office relays under the board that controll the polarity switch on most of the point motors but there are alot of wires.

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Sorry about the duplicate post, the first appeared to be lost and I was irritated having to redo it, the second also appeared to be lost and I came back just now to try again. :stinker:

Keith

 

Keith as others have rightly pointed out to you creating multiple threads to discuss the same topic does little to assist you. If you cannot find your thread then how will others? They will, also as suggested give up with trying to follow your scattergun approach. If you cannot find your thread just look in your profile at the top right hand corner of any page and look for My Content. Click that and it will open up a list of the threads you have posted in. Once you have found the thread you wish to continue with post in there. Having more than one thread for the same topic is hard work for everyone as it makes it difficult to follow hence those that may have posted in one may not have seen the other thread and may be duplicating an answer you already have. End result people will not bother at all.

 

If you still struggle to find your original thread then pm one of the Admin and ask us we will assist.

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Looks like a job that needs hands on. I suggest that you join a local model railway club and ask them for help.

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Looks like a job that needs hands on. I suggest that you join a local model railway club and ask them for help.

 

I second that as someone who has assisted others with wiring up layouts and being very experienced in tracing circuits, I can tell you it can take sometime to work out how somethings has been wired up. Sometimes it would be easier to start again.

Don

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hi don

 

Yes i might just do that but if i going to rewire it all i might aswell switch over to dcc but what will i need to convert to dcc using the h&m3 point motorswhich have built in polarity switch which are controlled with those victorian post office relays which are placed under the double crossover

 

regards

albert

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Looking at the age and condition, you are probably better off taking it up and re-wring.

 

At least then you know whats what, all you are letting yourself in for is continuous headaches as something else fails, as we all do with age! ;)

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hi don

 

Yes i might just do that but if i going to rewire it all i might aswell switch over to dcc but what will i need to convert to dcc using the h&m3 point motorswhich have built in polarity switch which are controlled with those victorian post office relays which are placed under the double crossover

 

regards

albert

 

You could do a lot worse than joining a local club, where in my experience advice is freely given, sometimes help too !

 

That way you would not only develop the knowledge but also the experience as well as knowing how to mend it later.

 

I've just re-wired a bus that had been bodged many times and I now KNOW where to start fault finding, should I need to, in the future.

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Keith as others have rightly pointed out to you creating multiple threads to discuss the same topic does little to assist you.

Mod5, Thanks for merging the topics, I have now removed my redundant post that was a result of posting problems last night.

However I am rather puzzled why the above was addressed to Keith, as I am not the Op but was the one pointing out.

Best regards

Keith

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Mod5, Thanks for merging the topics, I have now removed my redundant post that was a result of posting problems last night.

However I am rather puzzled why the above was addressed to Keith, as I am not the Op but was the one pointing out.

Best regards

Keith

 

My apologies Keith.

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I have drawn up a diagram of roughly how these post office relays connect does anyone have any ideas of what i can do before i decide to rip the wiring out to go dcc just to see if the electrics still work?.

post-14164-0-75818500-1336499143_thumb.jpg

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Can you confirm that the numbering you show on the H&M point motors is as follows:

Terminals 1 and 6 are the operating coil, terminals 2 and 7 are the other operating coil, terminals 3, 4 and 5 are the switch with 3 as the common.

I don't have any of these motors so working off old memories here.

 

The relays in your photo have a lot more fingers with attached wires than you have drawn, what about all the others?

 

Can you draw the track layout and show which points are operated by each of the point motors 1 - 6?

 

Regards

Keith

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There other wires that r coming off the post office relays are going to the double crossover track

So it is likely to make it much easier to unravel the puzzle if where they go is identified.

 

You did not answer question 1 in my last post.

 

Your track diagram shows 2 motors at a diamond crossing, i take this to be a slip, is it a double or single slip?

 

To take this any further is going to need a lot of work producing diagrams etc. which I am afraid I don't have time for at present.

As indicated above I would take out the relays and the wiring attached to them, just leave the droppers from the rails. But you do, then need to produce a new wiring plan to control the layout as you want to control it.

 

The point motors and their polarity switches can be used equally for DC or DCC. Dc will need a wiring scheme and probably some more modern replacement for the relays. DCC will not need any relays just the polarity switches on the motors.

Regards

Keith

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By chance does this layout have a name and maybe a region as it looks BR? Also do you know who the builder was? Its always possible that the layout appeared in the model press somewhere with a description.

 

Kevin Martin

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