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Brake Van Identification


Arpster

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Hello, folks.

 

I have happened upon this photograph of a Q6 and a coal train chuffing up the line from Washington station to the Glebe Colliery in the 1960s, taken about a quarter of a mile from where I grew up (the scene, is needless to say, much changed today!). I was wondering if anyone could assist with identifying the brake van immediately behind the loco? The lettering appears to read "TYNE DOCK GOODS" (which would make sense) and I think it's a 20-tonner. Is it ex-North Eastern?

 

All the best,

 

Arp

 

4033713403_b0d7435478_b.jpg

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Someone will doubtless come along to correct me but I'd say an ex-LNER 20T Toad B brakevan (Parkside used to produce a kit of these but they are no longer in production and seem to command some silly amounts on ebay).

There was an NER equivalent but that was rated at 10ton.

Have a look in Peter Tatlow's "A Pictorial Record of LNER Wagons" (p165).

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Hello, folks.

 

I have happened upon this photograph of a Q6 and a coal train chuffing up the line from Washington station to the Glebe Colliery in the 1960s, taken about a quarter of a mile from where I grew up (the scene, is needless to say, much changed today!). I was wondering if anyone could assist with identifying the brake van immediately behind the loco? The lettering appears to read "TYNE DOCK GOODS" (which would make sense) and I think it's a 20-tonner. Is it ex-North Eastern?

 

A lovely pic taken from the the bottom of the footbridge steps at the southern end of Nelson Street (Willow Street side) I've never managed to find out who the photographer is/was. My print came from what was the old Tyne & Wear museum service. I'm in the (Slow) process of building a brake van based on that very prototype, E140457.

Just so happens I'm assisting (or maybye thats hindering.) with the building of 4mm train set just on the other side of the pit heap to were the above pic was taken.

I think a bit searching around the rest of RM web will turn up a bit more info on Toad B's and you could try this link:

http://www.rmweb.co....812#entry696812

 

HTH

Porcy

(Twa dogs... You seen the latest MRJ yet?)

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Thanks for the info, Porcy. I went to school at Columbia Primary, which was very close to the location of that photograph. The old trackbed is still traceable and the location of the level crossing at Brady Square discernible. There used to be a fantastic photograph on Fotopic, in colour, of a Q6 crossing over the road there, complete with a little chap with a red flag. My mam remembers the panic of being stuck on the wrong side of the crossing on the way to school and being made to wait for a long coal train to trundle past or to dash up to the footbridge you mention in order to avoid being late for the register! I've never seen any other photos of this line in service. Glebe colliery remained open until 1972, so can we assume that this line continued in diesel service until then?

 

My dad is currently attempting to build a brake van based on that very prototype for Blackgill too! Are you scratchbuilding or attempting to start from a kit?

 

Cheers,

 

Arp

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Hey Arp,

 

If you need any, Dave Geen does the duckets. He probably doesn't list them as they're a by product from a mould, but i've had a few via David Scott (scottiedog OTP).

 

If you or your dad are interested in the Toad E (same body, steel duckets), Graeme King has done a resin body casting. Mine is shown here about a quarter of the way down the page - in fact, a little below that you can see some of the duckets I was talking about.

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My dad is currently attempting to build a brake van based on that very prototype for Blackgill too! Are you scratchbuilding or attempting to start from a kit?

I didn't realise it was "Eddies boy". ;) Hows his brake tenders coming on?

My brake van is based on Parkside kit. I was asked to build a couple in 00 a few years back for a guy’s layout but he went over to 2mm and let me keep the finished and part finished van. To be honest I keep looking at the mouldings and realising how crude they are compared to more recent offerings. I scribed the additional planking into the sides but I’m not happy with the duckets. Scratch sides and as Jonathon has pointed out cast duckets may be the best solution.

I’ll try and get some off Geenee next time we cross swords.

 

As an aside I suppose the train in the photograph could have just as easily been coming from The F pit or its associated landsale depot. I suppose you’ve seen Keith Pirts photograph of The Glebes “tankieâ€, I think it was number 10, taken just to the west of the level X-ing? Right were Park Chare is now. I wonder how many folk in that quiet little Cul de sac realise the struggles and pyrotechnic displays that loco put on right were their bungalows now stand.

 

The NCB acquired a few of these brake vans for use at Westoe and Wearmouth collieries, the side duckets being removed in later years. I,ve been told one also worked on the Harrington to Washington station NCB trains but have only seen photographs of the Lambton/NCB type on this working.

And I bet your dad can give you chapter and verse on the NCB brake vans that worked over the Consett-Tyne dock line between the Steel works and Medomsley colliery at Leadgate.

 

Tally ho

Porcy

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That is I, Porcy. It's a real web of intrigue, this internet! His brake tenders are, as far as I am aware, still to be begun. He's always on the look-out for numbers and the like and I keep sending him photos from Flickr like this one as inspiration:

 

http://www.flickr.com/photos/beamishboy/6896802631/in/photostream/ - that and the previous one in the photostream show some grainy details. Perhaps you know what the little 'C' sign to the left of the loco is? Catch points?

 

I think my pa has decided that it'll be easiest to get the planking right on a scratchbuilt brake van, but I'm sure the cast duckets that Jonathan mentions will make life easier on that front. Thanks for that information, Jonathan.

 

Your comments about the photo I posted raise even more questions about that line and its working. And they demonstrate just how alien the world of the North East in the industrial past is to those of us who grew up after its decline. I don't even know what a "landsale depot" is, nevermind the fact that there was one at the F Pit! Is Keith Pirt's photo of the Glebe's tank engine in his Eastern and North Eastern portfolio? The second volume, I presume? I haven't seen it but am certainly intrigued. How far did the BR locos work up this line? Were the exchange sidings at Glebe colliery itself?

 

And your mention of the "Harrington to Washington NCB trains" is interesting too. What was the purpose of these workings? I know so little about the railway history of Washington. Perhaps someone needs to write a book!

 

My dad has built himself a little NCB brake van for Blackgill (there are some photos of it in the Blackgill thread) which I assume is based on the ones which worked around Consett. But you'll have to ask him about that yourself...

 

All the best,

 

Arp

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That is I, Porcy. It's a real web of intrigue, this internet! His brake tenders are, as far as I am aware, still to be begun. He's always on the look-out for numbers and the like and I keep sending him photos from Flickr like this one as inspiration:

 

http://www.flickr.co...in/photostream/ - that and the previous one in the photostream show some grainy details. Perhaps you know what the little 'C' sign to the left of the loco is? Catch points?

 

Nice one. Last time I saw him he got a hard copy on my Loco/DBT database although it’s been amended and updated a few times since.

The C is a Commencement of speed restriction indicator. As it’s on the up grade it’s probably down to mining subsidence.

 

I think my pa has decided that it'll be easiest to get the planking right on a scratchbuilt brake van, but I'm sure the cast duckets that Jonathan mentions will make life easier on that front. Thanks for that information, Jonathan.

 

Yep, I think that’s probably the best stategy.

 

Your comments about the photo I posted raise even more questions about that line and its working. And they demonstrate just how alien the world of the North East in the industrial past is to those of us who grew up after its decline. I don't even know what a "landsale depot" is, nevermind the fact that there was one at the F Pit! Is Keith Pirt's photo of the Glebe's tank engine in his Eastern and North Eastern portfolio? The second volume, I presume? I haven't seen it but am certainly intrigued. How far did the BR locos work up this line? Were the exchange sidings at Glebe colliery itself?

 

“Landsale Depotâ€. Coal cells belonging to and under the management of the local colliery. Used to provide domestic and commercial coal to private users and local merchants. Also NCB lorries used in the delivery of concessionary coal to miners and miners widows would be loaded at these depots. They can usually be seen marked on old OS maps near to colliery railway lines as “Depotsâ€.The F pits depot was on Blue House Road. The term “landsale†probably originated with the advent of deep mining in the North East. Collieries that supplied the locality were termed “landsale†whereas those that supplied the London markets (via export by keelboat then ship) were called “seacole-[sic] collieriesâ€.

 

But landsale depots could just as easily belong to BR and be alongside BR lines. There was one of these on the Vigo to Washington Station line just to the west of were it crossed the Washington Highway.

 

I’m not sure how the NCB/BR worked the two collieries. There was plenty siding space at both looking at Old maps.

 

http://www.old-maps.co.uk/index.html

 

My mistake about the photograph. I meant Malcolm Castledine. (Industrial Railways in Northunberland and Durham in the latter days of Steam).

 

 

And your mention of the "Harrington to Washington NCB trains" is interesting too. What was the purpose of these workings? I know so little about the railway history of Washington. Perhaps someone needs to write a book!

 

… Harraton Colliery used to belong to Lambton. They had running powers over the LNER/BR to get their coal to Lambtons Staithes at Depford.

Colin Mountford has done the book…

 

My dad has built himself a little NCB brake van for Blackgill (there are some photos of it in the Blackgill thread) which I assume is based on the ones which worked around Consett. But you'll have to ask him about that yourself...

 

I'll look forward to seeing that. The Rickster keeps me informed on your dads progress.

 

Tally Ho,

Porcy

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Thanks for all the info, Porcy. It's quite baffling to get one's head around all of the railway infrastructure that used to be within a short walk of where I grew up and has now completely vanished.

 

Off to Istanbul on the train now.

 

Ta ta,

 

Arp

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