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OO MOTORS - An Important Question


Cornish Triang Paul

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With both a D600 and Western Enterprise on order and most likely a Streamlined Railcar to follow, as there has been talk on other forums about value for money regarding models and motors that die after around 100 hours, i would like it confirmed please as to weather im paying £1.00 an hour for the use of my super-detailed purchases only to have to result in them being used as static models eventually or will i be able to easily service them as per my 1952 Triang Jinty, 59 Princess, etc., which go first time - even after a long period in storage ??

Thanks.

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I presume that the talk on the other forums, which I haven't seen, refers specificaly to Dapol models? If it does, is there any evidence that models are particulary difficult to repair, that repair backup is not available, or that spares are unobtainable. I somehow doubt this, though I can understand the concerns.

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Most modern models othern than the occasional wheel and pick up clean and maybe a little (and I emphasise little) lubrication every couple of years should be absolutely fine and not require the level of pain the proverbial constant servicing and bodging that old and outdated Triang, Lima and pancake era Hornby models used to require. All new models are covered by manufacturers warranties so if there is a major failure then repairs should be easy to solve with the possible exception of the ongoing Hornby Class 31 Chassis Fatigue farce...

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Hi Paul,

 

Not sure which forums you have been reading but i can promise you this............

 

If all the things that were said by the whingers on forums were true about our products, we would not be in business.

 

100 hours? really? (where is the rolling on the floor LMAO emoticon when you need it?)

 

Cheers

Dave

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With both a D600 and Western Enterprise on order and most likely a Streamlined Railcar to follow, as there has been talk on other forums about value for money regarding models and motors that die after around 100 hours, i would like it confirmed please as to weather im paying £1.00 an hour for the use of my super-detailed purchases only to have to result in them being used as static models eventually or will i be able to easily service them as per my 1952 Triang Jinty, 59 Princess, etc., which go first time - even after a long period in storage ??

Thanks.

 

Surely the question should be whether you can purchase replacements, either from Dapol or a specialist motor manutacturer? If so, then that is going to cost you a whole lot less than the original model. I think it is assumed today that once a motor's bruashes are gone, you just replace the motor.rather than fitting new bushes.

 

I have a number of early Dapol N gauge models where some of the motors are erratic runners to say the least, however they are all of a standard size for which alternative motors of high quality are available to replace them with.

 

Not sure whether one should roll around in laughter at the thought a motor expires after 100 running hours though, Dave. Heljan managed to produce some that escaped the attention of their QC, and only lasted 2 hours if that. A cautionary tale ...

 

Perhaps there is a proper technical spec of how long the motor is designed to last? It obviously isn't for ever, and 100 hours of continuous running is actually quite a lot. Several years of actual time I should think for my models.

 

Chris

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I think the point here is that it is alluded that our OO motors only last 100hours.

 

They plainly last longer, or we would all have known about it by now.

 

Our motors are our own and not purchased in, in fact Heljan were interested in using our OO motor in their models a year or 2 back and i had conversations with Kim on the matter.

 

Cheers

Dave

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As a matter of interest what is the lifespan of your OO and N motors Dave?

 

I presume the N gauge open frame ones have a pretty long life (if treated right) as the brushes should be replaceable on them (and I would hope spare brushes are able to be purchased).

 

I suspect the 100hours figure comes from tests done by someone on the Yahoo N gauge forum on the 3 pole can motors used in the N gauge 14xx etc which were worn out (presumably brushes) after this time.

 

Regards,

Alan

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Perhaps there is a proper technical spec of how long the motor is designed to last? It obviously isn't for ever, and 100 hours of continuous running is actually quite a lot.

 

Debatable - when I was younger and had more time to play trains a lot of locos would get 1/2 hour to an hour running on 3 or 4 days each week. With 100 hour life they'd be failing in a year or so.

 

Those running at exhibitions can also easily clock up large numbers of running hours fairly fast.

 

Cheers,

Alan

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It depends how the models are run as well - 100 hours continuous is far more than the manufacturers cater for, surely? Most models run backwards and forward or round and round for a short while then pause.

 

The models we exhibit at Ormesby Hall are run each Saturday, Sunday and Bank Holiday afternoon from March - October. That's far more than the average model railway or even exhibition layout. I've been there 6 years and the only RTR chassis we've had to change has been the Bachmann V2 - which sounded like a sack of spanners when I first started going and lasted until this year. Even then it was the bearings which gave up way before the motor.

 

Continuous running is another matter - when we had an office in Orpington and I used to go into Just Trains in Bromley, the chap there supplied the Hornby Eurostars which were used in the Dome. They went round and round on an oval of track, about 8 hours continuous per day. He reckoned they got through one a day on average; the worst he mentioned was 20 minutes. Usually the problem was the motor getting hot and distorting the plastic chassis. That much continuous running is unusual, though, surely? Nobody watches the same train going round and round for 8 hours... do they?

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Hi Alan,

 

The Terrier failed (motor) under test at 160 hours.

 

Apart from the odd dodgy one right out of the box i havnt had any fail on me under testing at all.

indeed the 67008 model i have has just cleared 200hours of exhibition running this last weekend without a hiccup.

 

I agree with you regarding the running at shows and the time we used to as kids, have favourite models, and i didnt kill any then either.

 

OO ones havnt had any problems AFAIK regarding the motors yet. poor soldering on the PCB etc but no motors, but i think its still to early to tell, but hope that no news is good news in that department as i'm sure an inherent problem would have shown itself by now.

 

Cheers

Dave

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I think this figure may have been derived from Hornby with the cheapo typ 7 motor fitted to Thomas and similar 0-6-0 locos (including the Austeritys)

 

the quote below is from the Operation and Maintenance sheet for the R2096 austerity:

 

Motor -The motor fitted to your locomotive has a running life of approximately 150 hours after which the non-replaceable carbon brushes may have become worn out. This will result in the locomotive's speed being reduced or it not responding to the train controller.

 

I would expect the motors that are fitted to current models are of a significantly higher spec and would last a lot longer than these, frankly, poor motors. Having said that, both my Austerites on Summat Collery are running fine with these motors with a little regular lubrication to the bearings.

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I think rather than making light of the question, with comments such as;

 

100 hours? really? (where is the rolling on the floor LMAO emoticon when you need it?)

 

It would be much better to inform the customers what the testing regime is for these motors and what the customer can expect in terms of longevity from their purchase. While most models may never do significant hours of running, modelers who like running trains, may well run significant hours. I remember many years ago, a display model railway in Devon quoting that their Lima loco's were doing 50 actual, not scale mile, per week. Where I am sure that would be exceptional usage, and one couldn't complain if the motor gave up the ghost after a few weeks. I suspect we all remember the embarrassment that a certain other manufacturer suffered when James May tried to run one of their latest models over a 20 mile length of track.

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Hi Paul,

Maybe I was being too precious, as I thought you were questioning Dapols models, hence my tone, so apologies.

 

Rest assured that you have a full 1 year mechanical warranty for our loco's from March of this year, and for the cost of a comparatively cheap service you get a second years mechanical warranty thrown in.

 

This way it should give you peace of mind over our competitors (whoever they may be, (I havnt looked on the forum)) warranty.

We realise we are the comparative new boys here but this combined with having our first 2 'proper' diesel locomotives being first and second in the RMweb / Model Rail diesel loco of the year awards, and first for OO steam, you stand more than a fair chance of enjoying your Dapol model formany years to come.

 

As for my making light of the 100 hours? Well I'm glad it's my opinion here and I do find that sort of reliability in a motor for OO laughable given the costs involved for a product these days, so I'm afraid I stand by my comment.

 

Cheers

Dave

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I think rather than making light of the question, with comments such as;

 

100 hours? really? (where is the rolling on the floor LMAO emoticon when you need it?)

 

I reckon Dapol Dave got the balance right between trying to give a sensible answer and taking the p***.

A modern car is harder to service than a Morris 1000 but which would you rather drive?

There are motors for sale on ebay that go for upwards of 100 notes that are no better than the current RTR offerings from the better makers. My recent experiences puts Dapol firmly in that category. On the other hand I have a Dapol Austerity that from new sounded like a bag of spanners and yet has always performed reliably.

Bernard

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I don't know if I am particularly pessimistic, but I have just realised that I sort of expect engines to break down and I think that I (albeit subconsciously) take this into account before making a purchase. So Hornby or Bachmann, no problem - I can get the parts and probably make the repair or change the motor myself. Heljan - well, maybe. Dapol - I just don't know... and I think that it was for this reason that I delayed getting a Beattie Well Tank for so long. It is all based, of course, on perception, plus a desire to be able to sort out problems myself without sending the engine off somewhere. As a spin off from this, I find that with increasing prices I am tending to favour simpler, cheap and cheerful - my new layout will probably only run panniers and collett goods (both of which are easily repaired or cheaply replaced) and I can concentrate then on buildings, scenery, rolling stock, and do a bit of real modelling!

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I don't own any Dapol OO locos, but have 28 N gauge locos by them (and Ixion) and have owned many more in the past. I have had one motor burn out on a Hymek and a motor start smoking on a Brit. All the other locos have had a lot of use, but nothing anywhere near 100 hours. The super creep motors have much more control but do get hot; some more than others. The heat may not be a problem but it is disconcerting. The Brit has some issues with slowing and surging sometimes but on the other hand I have a Hall which is a very good runner. Some locos are pretty noisy to start with but after a lot of running this does lessen considerably.

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  • 3 months later...

I reckon Dapol Dave got the balance right between trying to give a sensible answer and taking the p***.

A modern car is harder to service than a Morris 1000 but which would you rather drive?

There are motors for sale on ebay that go for upwards of 100 notes that are no better than the current RTR offerings from the better makers. My recent experiences puts Dapol firmly in that category. On the other hand I have a Dapol Austerity that from new sounded like a bag of spanners and yet has always performed reliably.

Bernard

sorry , give me the moggy to drive any day ........
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