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Gresley A1 replica and new A1/1


scots region

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Hello all, sorry if I've wound a poor unfortunates hopes up with this. I have been reading over the topic regarding the unfortunate state of affairs at the NRM re "Flying Scotsman", one hopes that it can be sorted, it be tragic for so much effort to have been put into this machine for it just to end up stuffed, not with a bang but with a whimper. I haven't read over the report fully yet, but from what I have seen Scotsman was a near wreck when York got her. But enough waffle.

 

Now I've had an idea running around for a while, first off I think it would be an idea for Scotsman to receive a full rebuild, I.E Tornado in everything but name all parts brand new. The problem as rightfully pointed out in post 36 of the Scotsman thread, is that the NRM is a museum first, it must preserve the past otherwise the whole point of being a museum is defeated. This means that the NRM is fighting a losing battle to keep its fleet on the rails as spare, authentic and usable parts become increasingly rare. the cost issues of such a move alone could be prohibitive. Another idea I've had would be to build a replica of the first of Gresley's A1 class 4470 "Great Northern, the first problem with this idea (the ever present cost issues aside) is that this can't be equated with "Tornado", that locomotive fills a genuine heritage gap and was advertised as brand new A1 from the beginning. Without the smaller boiler GN 2.0 is ostensibly a teenage A3.

 

Plus as many of you will know 4472 started life as an A1 before maturing into an A3 so the historical argument is out. One this note I would like to point out that there is still an East coast heritage gap with the lack of a Thompson pacific, all arguments over it aside, I think we should look into the creation of an A1,1 "Edward Thompson". Back with the above idea, if there is no reason historically for a new A1/10, could you argue that there's a practical reason for it? The way I see it is that with GN 2.0 you could still have an Gresley style first pacific on the main line earning its keep for the NRM, whilst her younger more energetic cousin is running around Scotsman herself can enjoy a much needed retirement in the great hall, again earning her keep and being enjoyed by millions. The new pacific could also act as a source for spare parts for Scotsman.

 

So what do you think?

 

Yours

ScR

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If anyone was starting from scratch, knowing what is known now (isn't hinsight wonderful) then a new build would be worth considering. As it is, FS has cost in the region of 3 million pounds so far so, to some extent, it makes sens to carry on. Bear in mind that the BTC had not included an A3 in their list of locos worthy of preservation.

 

As for what to 'new-build' in that vein. where does on start:

 

Constipated A1 with short travel valves.

Modified A1 with long travel valves.

Modified A1 with long travel valves and higher boiler pressure (aka A3)

 

I think the best place for Thompson pacifics would be confined to model forms. From what I have read, they were little appreciated in traffic. While the steam passages may have been excellent, the riding qualities apparenty left much to be desired.

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If anyone was starting from scratch, knowing what is known now (isn't hinsight wonderful) then a new build would be worth considering. As it is, FS has cost in the region of 3 million pounds so far so, to some extent, it makes sens to carry on. Bear in mind that the BTC had not included an A3 in their list of locos worthy of preservation.

 

As for what to 'new-build' in that vein. where does on start:

 

Constipated A1 with short travel valves.

Modified A1 with long travel valves.

Modified A1 with long travel valves and higher boiler pressure (aka A3)

 

I think the best place for Thompson Pacifics would be confined to model forms. From what I have read, they were little appreciated in traffic. While the steam passages may have been excellent, the riding qualities apparenty left much to be desired.

 

 

When years ago I worked at the V&A Museum one of the Warders there used to be a Fireman at Top Shed. We would spend time talking about the merits of various locos, the various Thompson Pacifics he would not want to touch with a bargepole. Mainly because of the rough ride brought about by the front bogie being so far from the leading driving wheel. Many a time his shovel hit the side of the opening of the firebox because of a lurch just as the coal was being put in.

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If anyone was starting from scratch, knowing what is known now (isn't hinsight wonderful) then a new build would be worth considering. As it is, FS has cost in the region of 3 million pounds so far so, to some extent, it makes sens to carry on. Bear in mind that the BTC had not included an A3 in their list of locos worthy of preservation.

 

As for what to 'new-build' in that vein. where does on start:

 

Constipated A1 with short travel valves.

Modified A1 with long travel valves.

Modified A1 with long travel valves and higher boiler pressure (aka A3)

 

I think the best place for Thompson pacifics would be confined to model forms. From what I have read, they were little appreciated in traffic. While the steam passages may have been excellent, the riding qualities apparenty left much to be desired.

 

I believe that the second option is the best choice, true an A10 would have less stamina than an A3, but there is a no sense in recreating a dud design which the first A1s were. And it makes more sense to rebuild the A3 we have rather than two A3s.

 

As for the Thompsons, I'm of the opinion that there place in history is not fair, despite there supposed faults I still think someone should be brave enough to try.

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it would have been cheaper to have built a replica scotsman and probaby in less time than the overhaul has taken. however now they have spent all the money they may as well finish the job.

Maybe they should have fitted a diesel engine in the tender prehaps a Deltic engine it would make the green kettle much more rateable

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