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Possible layout idea for Dublo/Triang Retro Layout


GreenDiesel

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Last weekend at a model train show, I saw a small HO layout that impressed me & got me thinking! It was about 6-8 feet long but only about 3.5 feet wide (maybe less).

 

The layout had some extremely tight curves -- about 12" radius at the tightest point and around 14-15" radius at its largest. The layout was running very well using some good but budget-quality IHC (Mehano) locos and rolling stock.

 

I think most Dublo and Triang locos could handle 12" radius curves, so I thought it might be neat to possibly make a portable, very simple, 2-foot wide by 6.5-feet long layout that I could take around to shows. Again, because the curves are so extremely tight, only my Dublo and Triang locos would be able to cope with this layout, so I could set it up as a kind of "retro" layout.

 

I've already tried pushing my Dublo City of London around a piece of flex track shaped to a 12"R curve, so I think this should work. I wouldn't have thought this was possible had I not seen such a layout in operation last weekend.

 

Open to any advice or feedback!

Thanks,

Rob

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12" radius is a bit tight I think. Tri-ang (and Trix) minimum radius is 13½" and Dublo 15". The Duchess is not 100% happy on 15" in my experience* and certainly not 'flat out'. Gauge widening might be necessary with tighter radii, which would rule out R-T-R track. I'll dig out some sharp radius Trix track and experiment.

 

*The inner leading driving wheel revealed a tendency to lift, when I was investigating persistent derailments on a 15" curve. A speed restriction provided a cure, but not an ideal solution. Part of the problem lies in the profile of Dublo wheels, which are intended for the circular cross section rails of Dublo track and less suited to the square section of other makes. Tri-ang has greater 'slop' so there is less of a problem. It is possible to curve Dublo 2 rail track by cutting the webs (like any other plastic base track), but requires great care to avoid breaking the rail fixings, as the base is polystyrene. Of course, I don't know what the supply position of this is in Canada - here it's quite common and cheap.

Probably completely irrelevant, but I found a distinct dislike for Märklin 3 rail track (not the later stud contact). This has a square pressed tin rail section. It's claimed to be 16.5mm gauge, but the track I have (wide tongue c1950) measures 16mm. Again, their own wheels have plenty of slop so have no problems. A pity as, apart from the deeper base, it is an almost perfect match for Dublo - I believe there was a certain collaboration or inspiration from the German product. It would certainly account for the peculiar yellow colour of the ballast.

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12" radius is a bit tight I think. Tri-ang (and Trix) minimum radius is 13½" and Dublo 15". The Duchess is not 100% happy on 15" in my experience* and certainly not 'flat out'. Gauge widening might be necessary with tighter radii, which would rule out R-T-R track. I'll dig out some sharp radius Trix track and experiment.

 

*The inner leading driving wheel revealed a tendency to lift, when I was investigating persistent derailments on a 15" curve. A speed restriction provided a cure, but not an ideal solution. Part of the problem lies in the profile of Dublo wheels, which are intended for the circular cross section rails of Dublo track and less suited to the square section of other makes. Tri-ang has greater 'slop' so there is less of a problem. It is possible to curve Dublo 2 rail track by cutting the webs (like any other plastic base track), but requires great care to avoid breaking the rail fixings, as the base is polystyrene. Of course, I don't know what the supply position of this is in Canada - here it's quite common and cheap.

Probably completely irrelevant, but I found a distinct dislike for Märklin 3 rail track (not the later stud contact). This has a square pressed tin rail section. It's claimed to be 16.5mm gauge, but the track I have (wide tongue c1950) measures 16mm. Again, their own wheels have plenty of slop so have no problems. A pity as, apart from the deeper base, it is an almost perfect match for Dublo - I believe there was a certain collaboration or inspiration from the German product. It would certainly account for the peculiar yellow colour of the ballast.

 

Thanks for your feedback! My main, current layout is very small -- it's only slightly smaller than a 4x6' size and has two loops of track. The curves are mainly made up using Dublo 15"R track and my City of London runs well on them -- but I'm not 100% sure how well it will run on tighter radii. I've found that -- for running old locos such as Dublo or Triang -- the best track is either or Dublo modern Peco code 100. (Atlas code 100 isn't great, especially for Triang, as the wheels still trip over the track's chairs.)

 

I might set up a mock test layout on scrap wood, using some Peco code 100 track curved to approximately 12" to 13" radius and see if my older locos can cope with it. That will help me figure out if I'm going ahead with this project or not!

 

Cheers,

Rob

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Your layout will have to be more than two feet wide, even with track of 12in. radius, otherwise there will be an overhang at the sides (unless you're measuring from the outsides of the sleepers).

 

Good point, I've been wondering about that! So, how about 11" or 11.5" radius curves?!? The curves on the layout that I saw at that train show could have been that tight. Again, I would have trouble believing this unless I had seen it.

 

I realize it's much better to find some wood or foam that is slightly wider than 2 feet.

 

Rob

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Roco made some brass Radius 0 (304mm [12"]) track a long time ago but it will probably only accept 0-4-0 locos because of the flange/fixed wheelbase length problem - as for where you will get some....???? I have seen references to 10" radius curves for boxed sets - but never seen an example.

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Roco made some brass Radius 0 (304mm [12"]) track a long time ago but it will probably only accept 0-4-0 locos because of the flange/fixed wheelbase length problem - as for where you will get some....???? I have seen references to 10" radius curves for boxed sets - but never seen an example.

 

I actually do have some ultra-tight Roco curves -- I have to dig them out. I remember trying to push a couple locos around them 1-2 years ago and even an 0-6-0 Dublo wound bind so much that it couldn't move! I'll see if I can find them and experiment as I'm curious now. Maybe they are 10"R or something like that!

 

I was thinking that Peco code 100 flex track would be the best option for me because it seems to work well for Dublo & Triang and I can adjust the actual radius.

 

Rob

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A drop of oil on the coach axles freed it up a bit, but it's still tight. The 'Duchess' I tried was distinctly not impressed.

 

I now remember an early layout I built (no photos - just as well) using (partly) Playcraft/Jouef track* - H0 of course and US sleeper spacing as seems to be universal with H0 track - This stuff had a rather severe radius (I'll check ~13½" IIRC), but I don't remember particular problems. It was a GWR branch terminus, so I doubt my 'Duchess of Montrose'** saw much use, though she had been converted to 2 rail at the time.

 

*It was cheap! also brass, but that's another story (anything but steel!)

 

** My 'Atholl' was not running at this time (armature failure) My intention was to send her back to Liverpool, but alas not to be. She is running again now though. :)

 

EDIT It says here 12 3/4" radius, but I suspect it was actually metric (325 mm?)

 

http://www.playcraftrailways.com/Track.htm

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Of course, if you were starting from scratch and didn't have any locos, you could go for a retro Tri-ang TT layout instead. Their small radius track was about 10.5in, which would easily fit your 2ft board.

 

Thanks. That was actually one of my half-baked ideas that I had a few months ago! I basically shelved this idea because I wasn't too keen on spending more money buying a new collection of TT locos & rolling stock, but it would take me much to tempt me with this idea again -- I really like the TT size and scale. Hmmm....

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Please remember that Hornby Dublo was designed to use 15 inch radius curves, and the whole track geometry is based on that.

 

Dublo stock will run perfectly on Peco code 100 (with an added centre rail).

 

A large (30 ft x 24 ft outside) Dublo 3-rail layout is presented at Warley this weekend.

 

Have you considered joining the Hornby Railway Collectors Association. There are members on your side of the water, but well spread about.

 

Terry

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Please remember that Hornby Dublo was designed to use 15 inch radius curves, and the whole track geometry is based on that.

Dublo stock will run perfectly on Peco code 100 (with an added centre rail).

A large (30 ft x 24 ft outside) Dublo 3-rail layout is presented at Warley this weekend.

Have you considered joining the Hornby Railway Collectors Association. There are members on your side of the water, but well spread about.

Terry

 

Thanks. My Dublo is all two-rail but, yes, I have had good success with Peco code 100 track. I haven't joined the Hornby Railway Collectors Association but it could be good for me. Is it more for current Hornby or more for vintage?

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Tri-ang TT track is not very common these days and seems to command a premium. Also, being steel, good quality items are even harder to find. I built a small layout back in the early sixties (our local shop was selling it off half price and I couldn't resist!) Most of therolling stock survives, but I have no track, apart from a piece in plastic of unknown origin. A small layout is always planned but the lack of track is a problem. I could make my own........ I do have a large collection of figures from China in 1:100 scale, which would be ideal. (Misjudged purchase - I thought they would do for H0 going by the quoted size, but no.) Replacement wheels are no problem as US freight car wheels will do if regauged.

 

I'm not sure if the HRCA considers modern Hornby as Hornby at all.

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I believe Peco makes a type of track -- I forget it's name at the moment -- that is suitable for TT, has the correct gauge, etc.

 

I assume you mean this http://www.peco-uk.com/imageselector/Files/Track-templates/HOm/SL-E1495,1496%20plan%20sheet.pdf

 

I believe it's 12mm gauge, though it should be 11.5mm (or less - some nominally metre gauge track is actually 950mm (Italian for example). This derives from the strange habit of measuring gauge to the centre of the rails.)

 

Must stop this or I will be digging out my Tri-ang TT to build a mini-layout. I have a K's milk tank kit to build..........

 

EDIT Found this (help!) http://www.ttmodels.co.uk/shop/

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Yes, I believe that was the website that I was referred to. I'll try to look up the exact name of that peco track as well -- it was something like HOM3 or something like that. Although TT is (strangely) obscure, there are a few shops/websites and I think a society that cater to it. Very tempting to dabble in! R

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Yes, I believe that was the website that I was referred to. I'll try to look up the exact name of that peco track as well -- it was something like HOM3 or something like that. Although TT is (strangely) obscure, there are a few shops/websites and I think a society that cater to it. Very tempting to dabble in! R

 

The Peco track is HOm, very flexible.

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The site I linked to has Tillig, Peco and other TT track.

Though 12mm gauge, the Peco is actually H0m and the sleepers are too large (3.5mm/ft), whereas the Tillig is to the Continental/American scale (~2.5mm/ft) and too small. Luckily the Tri-ang wheels are approximately to NMRA/BRMSB (H0/00) standards. I must look up the exact figures.

 

He lies down in a darkened room "I have enough trains! I have enough trains! I have...... "

(It doesn't work!)

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Thanks. My Dublo is all two-rail but, yes, I have had good success with Peco code 100 track. I haven't joined the Hornby Railway Collectors Association but it could be good for me. Is it more for current Hornby or more for vintage?

 

 

 

WhenI was a member some years ago,they catered for Hornby 0 gauge & Dublo 2 & 3 rail,the emphasis on the latter.It also has a very good spares catalogue,well worth the membership alone if you run vintage Dublo or 0 gauge.I stll have my Dublo but all packed away,It`s place being taken by an N gauge layout.

 

 

Ray.

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Thanks Ray.

 

I have been playing Dublo 3-rail at Warley this weekend. Yes the HRCA is for the Hornby products made by Meccano (plus some Wrenn and in O gauge ACE and Darstead). The spares suppliers help us keep 60 plus toy trains running, and there are regular get togethers for socialising and mutual help held in various areas of the country.

 

Dublo 2-rail geometry is still based on a 15 inch radius circle, although the straight track lengths and curve track angles are different. This means that there are many more track sections variations in 2-rail.

 

Incidently the Dublo track centres are closer than "Set Track" because the Dublo point radius is 15 inch with a curve of 22.5 degrees and Set Track is based on points with a 2nd radius curve (17.25 inch) and 22.5 degrees.

 

I was instrumental in getting the Dublo 2-rail Library into SCARM, and I was surprised by all the track variations, being a 3-rail man since 1950!!!

 

Regards

 

Terry

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Peco HOm is the type of track that is compatible with TT scale. I had seriously considered starting a TT layout a few months ago but put the idea aside because 1.) it seemed that TT was too scarce and obscure and 2.) I felt discouraged having to start all over again purchasing a new scale of locos and rolling stock. I still haven't totally given up on this TT idea, though, just shelved it for now!

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  • 3 weeks later...

TT, espcially triang TT is very doable for a retro layout.

 

My last layout was a 3mm effort using peco HOm pointwork and 3mm society track. Word of caution, some triang stock will run on the chairs of peco HOm and/or bind in the flangeways of the pointwork. There should be some pictures around on this or the old version of RM web.

 

Here is it the now long lost and dismantled layout waiting to be reborn as something a little more prototypical - shillingstone S&DJR

 

http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/4759-3mm-scale-in-the-spare-room/page__hl__tretton__fromsearch__1

 

I would love to know who is paying a premium for triang TT track as I have boxes of the stuff I would love to get shot of as it is just too crude to use.

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