Greenhill junction

[Matt]

After a couple of years getting the basics in place I've decided to share my latest project. Greenhill upper and lower junctions in central Scotland (with just a wee bit of compression), 1985 to present day.

 

As I have far too much stock, time has been spent on a double deck fiddle yard containing 29 sidings. This has held back progress on scenic section although has been taking shape recently with most track now down. Track is exactoscale concrete sleeper oo with tilling points and c&l wooden sleeper for loops and sidings. Am trying to build detail into the track such as expansion joints and catch points which is adding a fair bit of time. Whilst glue drying on track have been working along painting rail sides rust coloured and losing my sanity... And have started some scenery.

 

This is only my second layout and of somewhat larger scale to first. In addition to above the boards are in place fo phase 2 which sits above th fiddle yard which will be Glasgow queen st and eastfield depot shrunk representations... Together with lines down to cowlairs and for the west highland line diverging.

 

i think I may have bitten off more than I can chew...

 

Will add some better pics in due course and when I have some time, a track plan.

 

General overview of greenhill lower including loop lifted late 80s with later junction layout...

 

Overview of greenhill upper. The two junctions are not yet rail linked...

 

This will be shrunk castlecary viaduct.

 

Final pic shows what will be GQS over top of one of fiddle dumb bells .

Edited March 6, 2013 by Matt

[Ian Smeeton]

This looks interesting, 

 

But I now have a severe crick in my neck.

 

 

Regards

 

Ian

[Markeg]

^{Looks good so far.}

 

 

^{Mark in Oz}

[Matt]

has taken me a while but i said i would upload some plans to give an idea of what im trying to achieve. well here we go, hopefully the photos are the right way up this time...

 

first image tries to give an impression of how the whole thing fits together. there are effectively three scenic sections representing Greenhill Upper and Lower junctions, Cowlairs Junction and Eastfield, and Glasgow Queen Street. There are two completely independent fiddle yards underneath the Cowlairs, Eastfield and GQS sections each with 15 tracks. Each fiddle yard contains a reversing loop so trains dont need to be handled, especially important given access is somewhat tight! there are a number of links between various exits of the scenic sections and each fiddle yard providing some interesting timetabling potential! The fiddle yards are fully laid and wired and the link lines with some interesting junctions, flyovers and gradients are all laid waiting connection to scenic sections.

 

the second image shows a schematic of Greenhill Upper and Lower junctions. these are nearly completely laid and wired. as stated in earlier post all track is Exactoscale concrete FB for main lines, C&L wooden sleeper bullhead for loops and sidings. Pointwork mostly Tillig for simplicity although there are 2 C&L kits in there too for the sidings. Points are powered by Tortoises.

 

finally, i have the plan for Glasgow QS and Cowlairs / Eastield all marked out, points all bought and wired awaiting installation but have not yet started track laying on this section. This will be Peco points with Exactoscale concrete, C&L wooden track. Have fallen out of love with Tillig points to be honest and for the difference in price the Peco are going to be an acceptable compromise. This and the fact there is not enough clearance for Tortoises under this section due FY under which has lead me to shallower Peco PM option.

 

 

As you can probably guess, some way to go yet but i should be able to play trains on the Greenhill part pretty soon which will be a milestone :-).

 

Aim eventually is to try to represent the wide variety of traffic through this area around late 1980s onwards. Freight is my main interest and currently building up stock to represent:

 

Petroleum block trains from Grangemouth to Mossend

Speedlink from Grangemounth, Inverness, Aberdeen, Stirling, Fort William and Oban to Mossend

Container traffic in more recent era to/from Grangemouth and North

Coal trains to Longannet that now take this route

+ a few fictional ones (what if steel from Ravenscraig was exported through Grangemouth Docks for processing in Sweden and this saved Ravenscraig?)

 

Additionally I have far too many engineering wagons and will represent sleeper services coming up from dividing at Mossend and also on WHL along with DMUs or Sprinters to / from Cumbernauld and Falkirk and Dunblane and of course the Edinburgh-Glasgow push pulls...

[Matt]

Some quick pictures taken the right way up...

 

First off showing the line to Cumbernauld ducking under the main Edinburgh to Glasgow line. Some scenic work started and some of the rail edges painted but much more to do. Track is super elevated through corners. Background has castlecary viaduct to right and at back can see one of many feeds between scenic sections which will be behind back scene.

 

 

Secondly showing a couple of shots of greenhill upper looking towards Falkirk high. Again complex arrangement of off scene feeders still visible here pending back scene install

 

 

Finally a shot of the most complete part greenhill upper where some of track detail has started to appear n moments when I need a break from track laying... Back scenes here disguise three tracks all at different levels going to fiddle yards or supporting scenic section on other side.

[Guest bri.s]

Looks a great layout nice plan big layout with plenty of operational protential

Will be watching for updates

Bri.s

[d winpenny]

Looking superb looking forward to further updates, david

[cheesysmith]

Keep it coming. This looks interesting. Will be waiting to see the stock running.

[Matt]

I guess it would be fair to say progress has been slow but that's life with a young family... All track is now down for all sections and all is tested independently albeit not yet linked up. I've had trains running briefly and suffered no track problems on the section working which was basically the lower greenhill to Cumbernauld line and through both fiddle yards. Recent weeks (months) has been focused on wiring up the fiddle yards to get stock in there and out of the way! Diode matrices for 15 lane fiddle yards take a bit of fiddling but tonight has seen me testing the upper FY entrance and exit successfully and get first batch of trains in. Frustratingly my dynamis has been giving me grief with uncommanded manoeuvres and some issues with loco roster though think I've worked latter out. Next steps are to get the lower fiddle yard diode matrices knocked up and then start bringing each section of the layout to life... Each module is fully wired but nothing linked back to main panel or supply as yet... The room looks a tip just now but will take some photos when I get the stock stored down in the FY and do a bit of a clear up.

M

[Drew-1986]

Have you had any progress on this impressive layout?

[Matt]

Thanks for the prod... it has been a while since any sort of update.  The answer is yes - but of course it has been 2 steps forward and one step back...

 

Since the photos above the following has progressed:

- most of the Greenhill side of the layout is ballasted and rail sides painted, including some preliminary track detailing and installing some working colour light signals

- trains were running for a good while on the Greenhill lower "loop" in between ballasting sessions - managed to "run in" around 100 locos and MUs at 1 hour each whilst at same time fitting Kadees to stock and replacing plastic wheels on many wagons with metal

- got the diode matrices working a treat on the fiddle yards including building a control panel for the whole layout incorporating magnetic areas and strips to represent locos (c/w DCC addresses) to keep track of things.  Control panel also included point levers for scenic side (DCC Concepts ones) which I like the look/feel of

- completed the back scene boards around all of layout but never got around to actually installing the scenery to them!

- installed a lighting gantry over the top of the Greenhill section using LEDs to improve the lighting massively

- all track laid on Queen St and Cowlairs / Eastfield and working

 

BUT... then I lost heart a bit.  The multilevel fiddle yards were not all I hoped they would - despite best endeavours I kept losing parts of trains and then having collisions in the sections it was hard to get to (some bits almost impossible to get to...).  I also found that whilst I could happily watch trains go by on the Greenhill Lower loop, the Upper side didn't offer the same potential and became a headache to operate - so really all I had was a big loop through Lower Greenhill and lots of unused bits!  The fact that this lower loop was effectively a very big dumbbell meant that if running more than 1 train I had to constantly keep eye on things to make sure didn't catch up etc...  Final straw was that ducking under the layout to get in and out was really starting to hurt my knees...

 

Faced with this I took decision to dismantle the fiddle yards (which also meant GQS and Eastfield sections) and re-build...  The scenic bits were salvaged for re-use but both levels of the fiddleyard were completely dismantled and rebuilt in a different part of the room.  The scenic parts of GQS and Eastfield are now differently positioned (back to back in middle of room rather than on the L as before).  This was possible as the part of room my wife had as her studio wasn't being used much and after nibbling off bit at a time I finally evicted her completely and took over the entire room... (it was her idea... honest!).

 

So where am I now:

- progress on Greenhill side has stalled somewhat

- fiddle yards for both upper and lower completely laid in new design/position

- diode matrices in place for most of pointwork but not yet wired back to a control panel (some wires in place but not all)

- lifting flaps now carry both levels across doorway to room to link with fiddle yard - lower lifting flap finished but upper still work in progress

- I had trains running on the lower loops YESTERDAY for the first time in over a year - did you know this when you posted??? First trains around yesterday were a 21 wagon TEA rake with 30 wagon HAAs in other direction hauled by 60014 and a pair of blue 20s respectively

- I should have trains running on the upper loops within a few weeks (maybe less)

 

BUT amidst all this progress... we had a valuation performed today to put our house on the market... we're likely relocating through choice to get a house somewhere quieter (out of town) with a bigger garden for the kids.  Dismantling again could be on the horizon... but on the positive my wife accepts that our new house has to have a decent hobby room and one of the prospects includes a hobby space some 60 ft long in the (already converted) loft...

 

I am still building but am wondering whether will be taking apart in a few weeks!  That said the property market here is quite slow so who knows.  But if you know anyone in Aberdeen area looking for a house with a nice big hobby room... I could even be open to negotiation on the layout to avoid having to dismantle again!

 

I'll try post some pictures later - I have a new fangled computer that need to work out...

 

Matt 

[Matt]

 

Quick look at the new lifting flap in raised position.  Note the microswitch at bottom right - this cuts power to the track for 6 ft either side of the flap if raised... I've got young kids!! New fiddle yard visible -6 full length +3half length loops for upper level, 12 full length loops on lower level of which 3 are not easily accessed... when will I learn!

 

 

Lifting flap in down position - took some time to get alignment right!! In end am using metal alignment dowels to achieve track alignment

 

 

Greenhill lower - not huge amount of progress.  Track ballasted and rails painted.  And it all works!  Little track detailing done.  Also working light colour signal installed (Heathcote module on Eckon head) with another to do.

 

General view of Eastfield section - the main part survived from rebuild but the tracks approaching from each direction had to be rebuilt. You can also see the GQS section now back to back with Eastfield with feeder tracks hidden between the two - more limited access areas...  this section is not currently wired to work but I do have diode matrix in place to control all pointwork - just needs control panel reinstalling

 

 

Better view of GQS section although currently buried under stored stock... believe me there are 7 tracks in there (platforms yet to be installed + 2 storage sidings at back of station.  Better view of feeder tracks - where autoballasters sitting is a reverse loop representing stock leaving to WHL that will go back to fiddle yard.  This has a double reverse loop module on it to prevent shorts.  The tracks from GQS now go in dumbbell round to Eastfield depot before heading off to either GH upper or fiddle yard (WHL). In other direction tracks divide just before GQS to allow trains to head towards Mossend etc.

 

 

Further view of new fiddle yard.  Note the stock storage units below - I'm really pleased with these from Ikea - drawers are about right depth for OO stock, sturdy and smooth running.  Have made a few mods to improve and few more to do but these are best solution I've found.  If anyone wants further details let me know and I can look them up!

 

 

Looking towards GH upper junction in background with parcels stock on line from Cumbernauld.  This shot also shows my control panel with mimic diagram and point levers (these DCC Concepts ones are nice!).  The gaping holes on either side were where the FY control panels were located including magnets for tracking stock but this is being relocated as part of FY rebuild.

 

 

Looking towards Castlecary viaduct we can see 57312 running up hill towards GH lower.  As with other photos - only progress here has been ballasting, painting rail sides and some track detailing + colour lights powered by more Heathcote units - these are also nice units although I would recommend asking for the track sensors to be supplied on wiring harness rather than standard circuit  board as much easier to install (in my opinion).

 

 

detail shot of above showing track detailing - have expansion joints throughout layout as appropriate (?!) + dummy catch points scratchbuilt from leftover track components.  More to do in this area yet.  The expansion joints are pseudo Colin Craig items.  My soldering is so bad that I made a mess of them but I used the detailing sections on plain track section to mimic expansion joints - sorry Colin but it looked so easy when you showed me (but not for the hamfisted!)

 

 

this general shot was to show the lighting gantry.  I was getting disheartened with look of layout and a visit to a show m,ade me suddenly realise how different a layout could look with good lighting.  My existing halogen spots were too patchy and yellow - decided to go LED strip - bought a transformer and installed in loft then made these gantries by pieces of skirting joined at right angles and then attached to ceiling on legs, before pasting the LED strips on.  What a difference - would recommend to anyone.  The beauty is that the gantry and LEDs have no weight so don't need much support but the light they give out is amazing.  You can't really see this in photo due the way the tablet corrects for whiteness but believe me things are so much brighter.  I have used natural white light - if you do go this route pay attention to colour (in K) and lumens.  This LED technology moves so fast though that I think the strips I bought were obsolete by time they were delivered!

 

I must add that these photos were taken with the new lighting OFF as the glare was too much for my tablet to handle...!  Suspect more of a tablet camera user issue than anything...

 

 

detail shot of GH lower junction showing some of track detail ongoing...

 

 

finally... what's this - another level????  in intervening time I bought some OHL stuff and decided to make up a story of a high level OHL suburban line passing a long back of Eastfield - this will form part of scenic break and will have a double dumbbell arrangement above the fiddle yard to feed trains.  I have built a Bratchells 320 (a really easy build) and will likely invest in others soon!!  This will also be DC only to act as a running in track before DCC fitting.

 

Thanks for looking and happy to answer any questions - have learned a lot from folks on here and would be glad if I can help anyone else!

Edited January 30, 2017 by Matt

[Drew-1986]

Thank so for the update. It was an impressive layout to begin with but it was brave to make changes when your FD wasn't working as you'd hope. I hope the house move won't see you give up this ambitious project as I very much look forward to seeing how you progress. I have only recently come back to the hobby and will hopefully be making a start on a layout in the near future. Wish you the best as you continue this build

[Matt]

Well the pending possible house move has caused progress to slow a little - lots to do checking architects drawings etc. etc.... BUT this weekend I did get the upper level running for the first time which means that all the layout (bar GQS) is completely live and working for the first time.  Had a little play on Sat night and am about to head up again.  Sadly its not clear how long this will last as the house move is looking close to definite and our place will soon be on the market...  I'm actually concerned how long it might take to pack-up and dismantle everything if the house sale goes quickly so am starting to put stuff away already.  Hopefully a few more weeks "playing" first...

 

The good news though is that the new place will have a layout room of a good size (44ft x 10 ft) and will be even better than current one - no windows but 3 northlights to prevent direct sunlight, on ground floor (no more lugging baseboards upstairs), and on separate wing of house (no more disturbing young 'uns with power tools).

 

M

[Wigan Wallgate OO Gauge]

Loving this trackplan

[Matt]

Well house went on market Thursday eve last week.  6 viewings - all were complimentary of my "train set" but no one made me an offer to leave it behind... One viewer said "I bet your wife don't know how much you spent on this" (correct).  Upshot is that house sold on Tuesday this week with relatively short exit date... time to panic and packing has started immediately with self storage beckoning for the layout.  New house won't be ready until at least December... all this to get a better view and a larger garden - it had better be worth it!!

 

M

[Matt]

Layout in storage... large empty room as hand over keys

Edited September 10, 2017 by Matt

[Matt]

And its upside down again... No idea why...

[Matt]

New hobby room starting to take shape... A few more days work maybe? Builder reckons complete by Jan but I didn't ask which year. ..

[cheesysmith]

Very nice, when done anyway.

[Matt]

I am so rubbish at posting here... anyway the update is that the house is done and we moved in a couple of months ago.  Last 2 months have been spent trying to get my head around all this eco kit that we had to have in the house to satisfy the planners - heat pumps, MVHR...  however i have had a few eves in the new hobby room and have got 16ft of Greenhill set up together with a new 8ft frame which will replace the previous curved section (the new space is more linear so the curved sections of last layout were scrapped).  So far it appears that most of the layout has survived without much damage despite being stored for 7 months in a garage.  Am still in process of working out how will all piece together but looks like following:

 

1. greenhill upper and lower junctions survive but the curved section between them has been scrapped and replaced with a straight 8ft section (frame only at the moment).  Track will need realigning to work with new board 

2. castlecary viaduct will go and be replaced by a larger 8ft board also encompassing the lifting section for entrance door - i could re-use the old castlecary section but think i could do better than previous effort and set on a more robust 8ft board rather than add a 4ft board to the original slightly rickety 4ft board

3. Eastfield depot and Glasgow Q St boards will remain as was except will now be in line with each other with a  new section between depicting Cowlairs carriage sidings

4. fiddle yards will be totally relaid to make most of the new space - current thinking is will go back to "underground" FYs but this time 1ft gap to layout above... will i regret this?

5. i seem to be left with a 8ft x 2ft corner near entrance unused - this may yet become a little electric terminus station to feed the high level electric line i never got around to building on last layout - most likely this will now extend around entire room running behind scenery for some sections

 

The new space is great but i did make a blunder in the drawings in not realising how high the ceilings are... in one part the ceilings are 20ft high which has got me thinking about what this space could be used for... but maybe I am already biting off more than i can chew?  I am a one-man band after all...

 

Matt

[Matt]

Structurally i now have baseboards all around the new room which could form a continous track run, including a lifting flap made.  This has involved a few new boards being made but managed to salvage most of old boards and reused as per plan outlined above.  Next jobs will be scenic track laying on 2 new sections (between 2 greenhill jntcs and Castlecary viaduct), plus starting to lay out the new fiddle yards on lower level before I start hoisting the GQS and ED sections into the space above.  The layout has been re built at a much higher height to give more storage under the layout / avoid so much ducking under but most importantly to improve viewing height.  This will make much harder to work on but hopefully more satisfying to view.  I will be investing in some Ikea stools for access during construction.  Pics to follow...

M

[Matt]

Woohoo I have finally got Greenhill live with first trains running since the house move.  This culminated this week in having 60007 hauling a 25x TEA rake around the layout, and more significantly having 47710 propelling an Oxford Mk3 + Bach DBSO push pull rake at full trot without any issues.

 

So what have I done...

1. All track laid for 26 lane fiddle yard - wiring in for most of 13 lanes (one direction) although only 3 so far full operational (putting microswitches on each point and this is not yet complete for all).  This was complete start from scratch as nothing apart from some baseboards survived from previous layout.

2. Lifting flaps over the door to the room, and across fire escape installed and operational - more robust design than previous layout

3. New section between Greenhill upper and lower made from scratch is this is now on the straight as opposed to a curve in last layout - track between the junctions not yet laid - just the section towards Cumbernauld laid and even then only 1 track for now to get something running

4. New section for Castlecary viaduct made as was never happy with old one - this one is now 8ft long as opposed to previous 4ft section although not all can be viaduct as goes onto lifting flap for door

 

Essentially most track and ~80% of electricals are done now for the "lower circuit" which will be from Stirling (fiddle yard) through Greenhill Lower and down to Cumbernauld (fiddle yard).  I may be playing trains for a little bit now as I have tonnes of stuff which has never run before with layout being out of action for >2 years.  Target is to get the lower circuit fully operational and tested and then to start heavy construction on upper circuit which will involve taking GQS and Eastfield out of wraps and installing above the fiddle yard (about 1 ft up this time with spiral to reach...).

 

I realise last time I said pics to follow... will try to get some up this time in due course.

 

M

 

 

 

 

[Matt]

Have taken some time out from electrics and started on scenery and even some buildings. Eastfield depot starting to take shape (not exactly ED but inspired by...). Haven’t done much scratch building before but reasonably pleased how shaping up... when I tidy the room I’ll get some more photos. Castlecary viaduct is in and most land contours are done.  Not entirely happy with ballast colour though and considering ripping that up. Trains do run through all sections now but some bugs to iron out in fiddleyards.

[David Bell]

That is looking the part Matt