How are crippled wagons moved to repair works?

[Clagsniffer]

Hi. On my layout I have a wagon repair shed/works. Its never occurred to me to consider how crippled wagons are moved to the repair works. Are they loaded onto flat bed wagons and moved that way? If so what types of wagons are used for this purpose?

 

My layout is set 70s/80s.

 

Cheers.

[bennyboy]

They often use skates which lift the wheel off the rail so they can be moved at slow speed. Although you can't see them very clearly, they are in use in this picture.

 

 

http://www.flickr.com/photos/parkysrailphotos/8475118353/

[Guest 838rapid]

When I worked as a shunter on BR(w) in the early 1990's ,this was the proceadure we had to follow..

 

 

If say for instance if a Foster Yeoman train set off the hot box detector just out side Swindon,he would recieve infomation regarding which axle had caused the alarm by setting the heat detector alarm off. 

 

He would then once the train arrived walk down counting the axles until he reached the relevent axle.

 

The wagon would be shunted out from the train and left in Coclebury sidings (if the train was heading towards London Direction) where it would be red carded.

 

It would then after it had cooled down be examined,and issued a one journey only ticket,which meant we could move it across the main line to the cripple sidings.

 

Here it would recieve repairs sufficient to get it back to the Wagon Works,say at Westbury.

 

Once the wagon was ok to return to wagon works,say with Isolated brakes for instance,the next train returning to Westbury would stop and pick it up on a one journeu only ticket.

 

Then it would return to Westbury for full repairs.

 

As mentioned above wheel skates were used but only if there was no chance of removing the wagon into a yard within a reasonable distance

 

 

Hope this helps.

Edited August 21, 2013 by 838rapid

[Rivercider]

In the 1970/80s wagons might very rarely be conveyed for repair on a flatrol wagon or similar, possibly en-route

to main works for repair after damage in a derailment.

Much more likely if a loaded wagon was stopped red card with a defect it would be patched up in a traffic yard to enable

it to continue to destination and then go green carded to a depot for repair when empty.

If the defect was more serious it could receive a temporary repair to enable a move at reduced speed to a specified local repair point before completing the loaded journey.

Empty wagons that were defective were labelled with a green card and sent to a local assessment yard, then a decision would be made

as to which depot they would be sent for repair.

 

In the Bristol area loaded china clay wagons from the west country were often stopped with a hot axle box, the clay was notorious for getting where it shouldn't be in the running gear. If one was stopped at somewhere like Flax Bourton Refuge siding the carriage and wagon mobile gang would be sent down to make it fit to travel onwards. Sometimes a defect would be spotted during crew change at Bristol, the wagon could be detached by the Temple Meads pilot to be shunted into Barton Hill wagon shops for repair.

Bristol East Depot Upside was our local empty wagon cripple grading yard, from there wagons would be labelled to Swindon Works, Derby Works, or Cathays shops or wherever as required. Each weekday labelled wagons would be shunted out and forwarded for repair via Kingsland Road Yard. Any wagons for local repair would be shunted across to Barton Hill shops by a pilot on the night shunt when repair work was not taking place.

A list of 'rightaways', (repaired wagons ready to go) would be given by the Barton hIll depot supervisor each afternoon ready to be collected that night.

 

Riverside Yard was the local marshalling yard for Exeter fulfilling the same function. Cripple wagons would be shunted out there and each day there was a local trip to Exmouth Junction Carriage and Wagon Depot taking cripples up, and bringing repaired wagons back down.

08479 trundles through Exeter St Davids on its way from Exeter Riverside to Exmouth Junction. Behind the loco is a syphon G(?) van in use as a stores van with wagon parts for the C&W depot. Behind that is a string of assorted crippled wagons, 24/7/80

 

cheers

Edited August 21, 2013 by Rivercider

[Steadfast]

This may be a daft question, but is a red or green card literally a card put into the wagons label clip (is that the right name?)?

Interesting thread so far, a topic I've previously wondered about

 

jo

[Gordon A]

How different were the procedures for crippled wagons in the 50's and 60's?

 

Gordon A

Bristol

[flyingsignalman]

To answer the previous two posts; the red and green cards were wagons labels so coloured.

Procedures in earlier times were much the same as already outlined, except that there were more cripple sidings/rerpairs depots.

 

Wheel skates were used only where an axle had seized solid and couldn't be turned. The first time I remember one being used was about 1980, when a class 40 was moved from Birkenhead Holding Sidings to Crewe.

 

Railwaymen who had been given light duties due to ill health were known in the Merseyide area (at least) as "Green Carders".

 

Two photos of the C&W facilities at Morpeth Dock in 1973, taken after the depot closed.

 

The area was known to Railmen as Betsy's Sidings. Whether this was after a Gent called Mr Betts or a lady called Betsy is not known.

Edited August 23, 2013 by flyingsignalman

[Rivercider]

This may be a daft question, but is a red or green card literally a card put into the wagons label clip (is that the right name?)?

Interesting thread so far, a topic I've previously wondered about

 

jo

My father, in his duties as Western Region Civil Engineers Wagon Inspector had to travel around the region.

His job was to ensure the civil engineers wagon fleet was being properly used and carried out TOPS data integrity checks.

He would visit carriage and wagon depots (Cathays, Exmouth Junction, Barton Hill, Reading Cripple Sidings, Newport Dock Street)

to ensure the engineers fleet was being given sufficient priority in the repair programme, and harry the depot supervisors if necessary.

He would also visit engineers and traffic yards to ensure that crippled wagons were being sent for repair promptly.

Even without a TOPS enquiry he could tell if a green carded wagon had been hanging about in a yard if he checked the label clip

and found the green card had faded to white.....!

 

As well as red (Not to Go), and green (For repairs) cards there was also the special 'red/green' card printed exactly thus, top left half green, bottom right half red.

This was to permit a red carded vehicle, which had been stopped, to be moved at reduced speed (25MPH) to a specified repair point,

this card was put in the wagon label clip on top of the lading card, and would be removed by the repairer in the depot. 

 

Here is a picture I have previously posted.

Dogfish hopper DB993311 had been en-route from Meldon Quarry to Bristol East Depot loaded with ballast,

it had developed a hot axle box and been detached at Weston-super-Mare.

After it was temporarily repaired it was labelled with a red/green card to move to Bristol for further repair,

47377 had been sent to Weston to collect it at 25 MPH, on the way to Bristol it had again run hot,

here it is approaching Bristol Temple Meads, 26/3/80.

 

cheers

Edited August 23, 2013 by Rivercider

[Richard E]

For the past few weeks there has been a wagon (an MEA, 391116) sitting at Newark with one axle on skates - it was moved last week or the week before ...

 

 

 

(edited to add images - I hope. And again to apologise for quality, shot from a passing 225)

Edited August 23, 2013 by Richard E

[new puritan]

For the past few weeks there has been a wagon (an MEA, 391116) sitting at Newark with one axle on skates - it was moved last week or the week before ...

 

Here's a closer view before this summers vegetation growth ...

 

Mark

Edited August 23, 2013 by new puritan

[Glorious NSE]

Oooh, that's a poorly looking axlebox...

 

Quite liking the EWS maroon skate though.

 

(edit - shows the 'red card' in the clip as well...)

 

Edited August 23, 2013 by Glorious NSE

[Vin]

Hi all,

 

This maybe a very stupid question. How do you get a wagon onto a skate? As the wagon is no longer on the rail. Also what is the weight limit for a skate? Does the wagon need to be emptied?

 

Maybe I should have started with 'this maybe loads of stupid questions?'

 

Cheers

 

Vin

[ringo]

The wheelset is lifted using jacks, the skate is constructed under the vehicle, the wheels are separate and have to be built with a tube that acts as an axle.

 

The skate has wheel shaped blocks between the inner and outer frame, the wagon wheel is lowered on to these blocks, and there must be about 9mm of clearance between the rail and the bottom of the wheel. Max weight of the wheel can be up to 26 tonnes.

 

The skate shown above is called a BR Mk 1 skate, the Mk 2 skate is basically the same but with slots instead of bolt holes.

 

Speeds have to be strictly enforced for movement, 3mph over crossovers and points, and 25mph on plain line, with further restrictions where there is a severe cant on the track, skate movements must also be accompanied by a technical rider, who will check and re-grease the skate every so many miles.

 

There are other variants of skate, including ones for 66s, IWAs etc.

 

In some cases the wagon/coach or loco will have to have significant parts removed or the skate will foul equipment on the vehicle, on 66s the Radial steering mechanism must be removed on the bogies if axles 1/3/4 or 6 are required at be skated, if not it will fall off the road

 

Cheers

 

R

[Baby Deltic]

It must be one heck of a job getting the radial steer mechanism off a class 66. I've seen those bogies being built. That massive curved bar between the link arms goes right across the car-body traction rods holding the centre pivot. Do you have to jack the body up and get the link bar out so the wheelsets can't infuence each other?

[phil-b259]

The wheelset is lifted using jacks, the skate is constructed under the vehicle, the wheels are separate and have to be built with a tube that acts as an axle.

 

The skate has wheel shaped blocks between the inner and outer frame, the wagon wheel is lowered on to these blocks, and there must be about 9mm of clearance between the rail and the bottom of the wheel. Max weight of the wheel can be up to 26 tonnes.

 

The skate shown above is called a BR Mk 1 skate, the Mk 2 skate is basically the same but with slots instead of bolt holes.

 

Speeds have to be strictly enforced for movement, 3mph over crossovers and points, and 25mph on plain line, with further restrictions where there is a severe cant on the track, skate movements must also be accompanied by a technical rider, who will check and re-grease the skate every so many miles.

 

There are other variants of skate, including ones for 66s, IWAs etc.

 

In some cases the wagon/coach or loco will have to have significant parts removed or the skate will foul equipment on the vehicle, on 66s the Radial steering mechanism must be removed on the bogies if axles 1/3/4 or 6 are required at be skated, if not it will fall off the road

 

Cheers

 

R

 

Hence why these days, wheel skates are only used when absolutely necessary, which basically means to get the failure to the nearest siding and get the line open. If the loco / coach / wagon cannot be temporally fixed where it gets dumped (or the site isn't suitable to get a low loader in to remove it) a further skated journey may be necessary though this usually takes quite a long time to sort out because of the complications outlined above.

Edited August 23, 2013 by phil-b259

[eastwestdivide]

From 1983, Shildon wagon works. Don't know how far they had travelled like this, but the strapping suggests it wasn't just around the works site.

 

Somewhere, I've also got a photo of an 80s wheel skate under an EMU out on the main line, but my indexing system won't tell me where it is just now.

Edited August 23, 2013 by eastwestdivide

[eastwestdivide]

A few more from the early 80s, all at Hoo Junction:

Don't forget deliveries of supplies to the works - wheelsets/bogies (not sure if the first one is a wagon bogie or not?)

 

And there's not much left of this wagon:

[Baby Deltic]

The first piccy looks like an EMU bogie, without the air cushion suspension fitted.

[Fat Controller]

The first piccy looks like an EMU bogie, without the air cushion suspension fitted.

Those Conflats belong to BREL, so new bogies (BT10?) going somewhere?

[Baby Deltic]

Those Conflats belong to BREL, so new bogies (BT10?) going somewhere?

 

The reason I say EMU bogie and not MK3 is because of the steps at one end. Maybe off a driving trailer? The steps stick out by the look of things. I was wondering could it possibly be to accommodate a shoe beam?

[Vin]

Cheers everyone for the replies. I always thought skating vehicles must be a complex arrangement. Not only fitting but the physical movement of the damaged vehicle.

 

Vin

[Steadfast]

Thanks everyone for explaining red and green cards. Certainly clears things up.

 

The first piccy looks like an EMU bogie, without the air cushion suspension fitted.

Looks to me like the type under sprinters, 455s etc

 

jo

[eastwestdivide]

On the EMU (?) bogies, why would they be down at Hoo Junction in Kent? Kent didn't get any modern EMUs for many years after the photo. Did Slade Green or Ashford do any work on 508/455 bogies (or even on the complete units)? Or maybe they were just in transit in a freight and were then tripped back over to Selhurst/Wimbledon? Seems like a long way round though.

 

(And sorry to the OP for the hijack from the wagon works question)

[eastwestdivide]

Found the photo of the wheel skate - under an EMU (4-CEP) at Strood, between about 1983-86 I'd guess.

Slightly different in design to the photos above. But note that someone is riding directly above it. The train was under its own power (no loco), but I'd guess that this motor bogie at least would have been isolated.

 

(The unit number painted on the solebar looks like 1590 in the original photo)

Edited August 24, 2013 by eastwestdivide

[Lyddrail]

On the EMU (?) bogies, why would they be down at Hoo Junction in Kent? Kent didn't get any modern EMUs for many years after the photo. Did Slade Green or Ashford do any work on 508/455 bogies (or even on the complete units)? Or maybe they were just in transit in a freight and were then tripped back over to Selhurst/Wimbledon? Seems like a long way round though.

 

(And sorry to the OP for the hijack from the wagon works question)

 

Yes, Slade Green did some work on 508s.

 

Cheers.