Metalsmiths "Ransomes and Rapier" 70' turntable build.

[JeffP]

And here we are...at the point that used to drive me up the wall when I started modelling.

 

Ordered some bits by internet Thursday morning, paid £3 P&P, was assured they would be here yesterday.

They still aren't here on Saturday, and the post has been.

So now it's on hold at least until Monday.

 

This is why I hate to start a kit unless I have every conceivable piece, including aftermarket extras, in the box before I start.

 

I suppose I could start the actual table.

[N15class]

Think yourself lucky. I need 6 weeks to get parts to me here. How do you know what you want until you are making the model anyway. With a loco wheels and motor etc are obviously needed, name plates are not a problem to get, other bits and bobs come out of the spares, stock boxes. 

 

You can always get on with something else while waiting. 

[JeffP]

Think yourself lucky. I need 6 weeks to get parts to me here. How do you know what you want until you are making the model anyway. With a loco wheels and motor etc are obviously needed, name plates are not a problem to get, other bits and bobs come out of the spares, stock boxes. 

 

You can always get on with something else while waiting. 

Well, yes, in theory.

My trouble is a recurring bad back that, when it occurs, makes modelling agony, and loss of modelling mojo that means that if I can't get on, it will end up shelved for the foreseeable.

Hence, I'd LIKE to get on asap.

 

As for buying parts, if you look at some of my other posts, you'll see that, where relevant, I've asked for lists of extra parts etc before buying my own model.

About the ONLY bits I don't worry about are nameplates, paint etc.

[N15class]

Well, yes, in theory.

My trouble is a recurring bad back that, when it occurs, makes modelling agony, and loss of modelling mojo that means that if I can't get on, it will end up shelved for the foreseeable.

Hence, I'd LIKE to get on asap.

 

As for buying parts, if you look at some of my other posts, you'll see that, where relevant, I've asked for lists of extra parts etc before buying my own model.

About the ONLY bits I don't worry about are nameplates, paint etc.

I understand that you have a health issue.

But because someone else prefers to use a part from x supplier rather than the one in the kit, does not make the kit unbuildable. These are changes are purely personal and not need to finish the kit, they do not need to be copied. If you compensate or spring you make the choice of hornblock etc, that suits how you work not because so and so did it. Yes learn from their process, and adapt to your style. 

 

My main gripe was your complaint about an item not turning up the following day. These things happen. When I lived in the UK I would always work on 7 days no matter how quickly they quote. If a part for a loco is not there I build a wagon or clean up parts for the next loco, or even go bck to something that was beyond my thoughts and ability when started.

Edited November 17, 2013 by N15class

[JeffP]

Fair enough, not going to argue over it.

[JeffP]

STILL awaiting my parts. Royal Fail again, they were sent out LAST THURSDAY!

 

I think I'll make a start on the bridge part.

[JeffP]

And this is what it looks like when all bolted together:

 

 

The bolts were left loose until it could lie flat on a flat surface, then each was tightened, working diagonally, alternately, a bit like doing up cylinder head bolts? Although not quite as tight!

 

The next picture shows the centre pivot stretcher in place, this one gets fitted with the flanges facing downwards, and a pair of turned bushed soldered in place to take the actual pivot plate that attaches to the centre shaft. On this one, I ran a fillet of solder along the fold line, I didn't bother with the others. The view is of the underside as it will be fitted.

 

 

And this one shows the actual pivot plate with the pair of pins that are a tight fit into the two bushes :

 

 

Finally, a view of one of the ends, the lower stretcher will carry the wheels , the upper one is for fitting the deck.

 

 

The nuts weren't that easy to get into place, but all's well that ends well.

 

 

 

 

[ozzyo]

Hello GeffP, all,

 

I think that I'd have modified the drive, by fixing the centre pivot in place on the T/T deck and having the drive at (or near) to the carrying wheels. As any play at the two centre drive pins will be magnified at the end of the table. Think about 0.001" play in the holes and then take it to the end of the deck, it will be about 0.006". 

 

If you make two beams that will run to the rail! with pins in them you will get less play, and you should still be able to lift the deck off them. Then all that the centre has to do is act as the centre bearing, and transmit the drive to the outer edge of the T/T.

 

I'm not describing this very well at the moment.

 

OzzyO.

[JeffP]

No, I'm not seeing it Ozzy, sorry.

 

The pins are a VERY tight fit in the two bushes, the bushes being soldered in place with the pins in them to get them right...and tight, but I'm open to suggestions if you can draw it?

 

Meanwhile, back at the ranch.........

 

Here are a few stiffeners needing rivetted:

 

 

There are nine strips with 115 rivets needing punched on each strip. I make that 1035 rivets!!!!!!!!

 

Anyway, out came the GW rivet press. The first row were vERy slow, but then I came up with a method that speeded it up. I cut the strips into separate pieces at the half etched joiners, and, holding the strip in my left hand, "felt for" the end of the rivetting tool with the dimple on the strip, then depressed the handle to a preset stop.

Once I got going I could press out 115 rivets in just over two minutes. And yes, i did time it...it was mind-numbing. I couldn't stop myself counting the rivets as I pressed them either. Crazy.

 

Anyway, here's a pic of the GW rivetting tool in action, pressing the final rivet:

 

 

it's not on my work bench, I was scared to photograph it there for fear of getting told off by the senior modellers on here for having an awfully untidy workbench.

The stop mentioned above is at the front of the rivet press upper part.

 

Finally, the 1035 rivets all pressed out:

 

 

At this point I'll add a pic of the two pairs of scissors I use to cut parts from the fret. The smaller ones are Fiskars and the larger ones Tim Holtz, both bought off ebay for not a lot of money, and both allow cuts close enough to the etch so as not to need filing in the majority of cases.

these were bought after seeing them recommended on a thread on another website, the one and only David Parkins tried them out for us.

 

 

That's probably it for tonight, or at least until my eyes stop seeing rivets!

Edited November 19, 2013 by JeffP

[3 link]

Hi Jeff,

 

Just to say I am enjoying this build of your turn table, and is it me or are the bridge sides made of copper/paxolin sheet ?

 

ATB,

 

Martyn.

[truffy]

I'm potentially in the market for one of Metalsmith's TTs, so I'm really interested to see how this progresses!

[JeffP]

Yes, the sides are PCB sheet, rigid but light, and you can solder the stiffening ribs etc to them.

 

Once you are satisfied with the fit, all the screw holes can be filled with epoxy putty, or your favourite filler, and rubbed smooth.

 

Truffy: so far I'd not call, it model-building, it's more like model engineering, virtually everything fits together with nuts, bolts and screws. Quite enjoyable so far.

[ozzyo]

Hello JeffP, all,

 

I've done a quick sketch of what I was on about,

 

In the top of the sketch this is showing the side view, I have shown the centre drive pins extending above the bar but these would be cut off. The drive pins are at the ends of the bar just above the rail.

 

In the lower sketch you can see the centre pivot with it's drive pins in line with the outer ones. The centre pivot would be soldered to the brass bar and the tops of it's pins cut flush with the top of the bar. The drive pins would then fit in to sockets above or near to the race rail, This would still allow the deck to be taken off, but I feel it would give a more positive drive. As any play in the drive is now at the end of the T/T not at the centre.

 

OzzyO. 

[JeffP]

Got you.

To start with, I thought, "But that's how it works now..."

But no, you are correct.

 

I'll have a look at modifications. Somewhere I had some lovely brass I section, ex curtain tracks...

 

Still awaiting my parts. They must be lost now, but, apparently, the Royal Mail don't think so until THREE WEEKS has elapsed.

I've contacted the seller who will re-send tomorrow if they don't arrive, and I will return him a set if two arrive.

Edited November 20, 2013 by JeffP

[ozzyo]

STILL awaiting my parts. Royal Fail again, they were sent out LAST THURSDAY!

If that is correct. Some people will say that the parts are on the way and they don't have them in stock.

 

Still awaiting my parts. They must be lost now, but, apparently, the Royal Mail don't think so until THREE WEEKS has elapsed.

I've contacted the seller who will re-send tomorrow if they don't arrive, and I will return him a set if two arrive.

 

I'm not sure about your dates, post one says last Thurs. that would be 14/11/13, so it can only be two weeks tomorrow  (don't panic). I ordered some castings by post on Sat. and I had them on Tus. and the cheque has not been presented yet.

 

I think that the east coast has it's own time zones. That's why a duck could go that fast.

 

OzzyO.

 

PS. why not just use Peco rail joiners, and then add bits of plastic to make them look like fish-plates at the 60' gaps? 

[JeffP]

Hi Ozzy, I'd thought of that, but didn't want PECO rail joiners in sight. They are somewhat ugly.

 

Here's a question for all you more senior modellers:

 

I have nine strips of nickel silver to bend at right angles along the length. The fold line is half-etched.

I have a hold and fold that will accomodate each strip.

 

Last night I did the first one: I inserted the strip with the half-etched line just showin, so that the rivetted section stuck out of the rear of the hold and fold. But I could NOT exert suficiant pressure to get the strip to fold cleanly.

Finally managed it with much messing about with strips of wood, but I'm not convinced I'm doing it right.

 

So I turned the top plate of the hold and fold round so that the strip now lies on the deck. NOW I can't insert anything under it to lift it to even start folding.

 

Help. What's the trick, or what am I doing wrong?

[3 link]

Hi Jeff,

 

" Scrawker " that will do the trick, a while back I built one of Jim's ( Connoisseur kits ) Macaw B bogie bolsters which has 48' sole bars.  Well I had the same problem with not enough area to exert any pressure on, so if you do not have a scrawker a scribe will do the same job, or the back of a Stanley knife blade will do.

 

Just score along the fold line which will remove a small amount of brass/nickel silver, you may have to do this a couple of times but it does the trick. I do this to most fold lines as in the past if the fold line has not been etched deep enough it will cause the flat parts to buckle instead.

 

HTH,

 

Martyn.

Edited November 20, 2013 by 3 link

[3 link]

 

 

Here's a question for all you more senior modellers:

 

 

 

By the way I am not that " senior " and definitely not as old as Ozzyo

[ozzyo]

By the way I am not that " senior " and definitely not as old as Ozzyo

 

Hello Martyn,

 

rearrange these letters oisfpsf in to two words. Or foxtrot Oscar.

 

JeffP,

put the flat length of metal in the hold 'n'fold then use a knife blade to start the bend then work your way along the strip. Until you get the 90 deg bend.

 

OzzyO.

[JeffP]

Cheers lads, will try both.

BTW: "senior" in thisw case means like the "Senior Service", (not NOT fags!!), but the most respected modellers, those with more experience etc.

[ozzyo]

and we all know why the Navy is called the senior service, don't we?

 

OzzyO.

[JeffP]

Give over Ozzy, I'm trying to smooth it over, having NOT meant any ofense in the first place!!! LOL

[3 link]

Morning Jeff,

 

I am sure that Ozzyo is not offended in any way and I certainly am not, we just like to pull your leg a bit

 

 

and I also know that I was certainly was not born in the 16th century .

 

Martyn.

Edited November 21, 2013 by 3 link

[truffy]

and I also know that I was certainly was not born in the 16th century .

If you were, you've adapted to this modern internet malarkey with remarkable aplomb!

[ozzyo]

Give over Ozzy, I'm trying to smooth it over, having NOT meant any ofense in the first place!!! LOL

 

Don't worry about Martyn and me we're both too long in the tooth (Martyn only has one left you know, right at the front) to let this banter worry us, it's just what good mates do. You want to see us when we get together at Telford.

Back to the Senior Service, this came about with Henry 8, he set up building a navy so it became the Royal Navy. The first of the services. The army was at this time provided by the land owners.The next service to be called Royal was the air force. The army is still just the army

 

OzzyO.