Metalsmiths "Ransomes and Rapier" 70' turntable build.

[11B]

Hi Jeff,

 

Made it down into town this morning (temp 0), West Coast Rail failed to play the game and parked every loco they could find around the turntable!!!

 

I have found two good vantage points when the locos are not in the way, but did manage a few shots this morning, but nothing special. Sorry..

 

 

 

And on behalf of WCR some funny LMS version of a Brush type 4 (still can't make my mind up about the colour)!!

 

 

Ozzy, I am still not sure where they keep the coal

 

I will email the photos to you aswell Jeff.

 

Kind regards

 

Ian

Edited November 23, 2013 by 11B

[JeffP]

I didn't know that about the Air Force and the Army.

 

Thanks Ian.

Edited November 24, 2013 by JeffP

[JeffP]

After managing to bend the angles to my satisfaction, (cheers Ozzy), the next job is to solder them to the copper-clad paxolin sides.

 

My first thought was an RSU, after tinning both turntable side and angle, but I was warned that it might generate sufficient local heat to delaminate the copper-clad.

 

So it was out with the 188 degree solder, the special flux I bought off Simon Varnam, the fibreglass sratchbrush, and the hacksaw to cut the strips into the right lengths.

 

Here is the result of the edging pieces on one side, an afternoon's work...well, three hours.

 

I still have to solder on six vertical pieces, the eagle-eyes amongst you may spot the lines where they will go.

 

 

Meanwhile, my fishplates have arrived after the vendor resent them the others seem to have gone for good...thanks Royal Mail.

And I've been attaching the jig plate to the top of the H-sections to which the wheel bearings will be bolted, the jig plate holds them the correct distance apart before soldering up with end pieces.

I had forgotten how fiddly 14BA nuts and bolts were, especially when they have to be inserted from the INSIDE of an H-section.

Edited November 27, 2013 by JeffP

[JeffP]

Today's work has been somewhat curtailed, since I can't start much before 1pm, as I need to work in the loft. My youngest still lives at home and works shifts, today he is on "quick turnaround", which means he came home at 6:20am this morning, and goes back to work at 1: 30pm for a 2pm start. On that day, I don't want to disturb his sleep.

 

THEN, I'd just started, and my eldest rang from Loughborough, where he is doing Engineering, wanting some input into some maths he  needs for the course, trigonometric equations, so we spent a couple of hours on Skype with those.

 

Anyway, light relief (   ) over, on with the work.

 

The first side of the bridge is now done, except for filling the screw holes, which I will leave until last, since the handrail supports get soldered to the side, and I don't want any filler where I may need to solder. Each vertical piece needed cutting to length, the base removing between top and bottom rails, then the sides filing slightly so it would sit flush with the other pieces of strengthening. One edge also needed to be filed at an angle as the base rail runs at an angle.

All in all, time consuming, but it's done now. Cutting pre-formed angle strip is not easy.

 

 

Then I set about soldering the end sections onto the first of the wheel carriers.

 

 

The end sections aren't the full depth of the side sections, so they were carefully measured and found to be 6mm high, to the sides' 8mm.

To solder it, I stood the sides on a flat surface, (I usually use 18mm mdf offcuts), clamped the other end, and rested the end section on a 2mm drill to get it the correct height. The whole lot was pre-tinned, then fluxed and in and out with a big iron.

 

 

The allloy piece seen above is the jig used to get the side pieces flat and the correct distance apart. The 14BA screws can be seen, these get removed and re-used on the next one. Only one jig is provided, so the two get done seperately.

 

Still needing done is the end sections dressed with a file to get them exactly the same length as the sides are wide.

 

Although not in the instructions, I am toying with the idea of making a couple of brackets per end to strengthen the joint, since it is only butt-soldered.

 

 

[JeffP]

The jig is now removed.

The instructions call for the upper surface to be perfectly flat, so it was turned over and rubbed on a piece of 80-grit wet-or-dry paper, on a piece of plate glass.

This is the result:

 

[JeffP]

Today's work was again curtailed while an old friend, who has just got married for the THIRD time, visited.

 

Anyway, I made up eight right angled brackets and drilled them to suit, before soldering to the sides. The drill holes were then run through to pierce the brass bars, and tiny copper rivets, pre-tinned, (and what a game THAT was), were dropped into each hole before being fluxed and touched with the iron. This time 145 deg solder was used to avoid disturbing the end pieces.

 

Here is the result:

 

 

A somewhat cruel close-up, the rivets don't look a bad size from two feet away, let alone viewing distance.

I've no idea where those rivets came from, I have bag of about 200, they are about 1.6mm head, by 0.7mm shaft. I thought they might turn out useful.

 

Tomorrow should see the insulating pieces by which these bits attach to the turntable, fixed in place, and the wheels and their bearings fitted. If I don't get any more distractions .

Edited November 30, 2013 by JeffP

[JeffP]

Wrong again.

The insulating pieces need the heads of the screws BELOW the top level of the plastic carrying piece, so as not to bridge the gap.

There appear to be no csk screws in the kit so I'll have to order some. 14BA x 6mm (or 1/4"). I'd like steel, but steel only seems to be available down to 12BA.

[11B]

Hi Jeff,

 

Spent 10 mins hanging from a tree yesterday, behind me the ground was only 3ft away, in front of me about 40 - 50ft away........

 

WCR seemed to have a few trips planned so the turntable was in view. I'll email the shots to you later, just need some of the greenery to die back.

 

Kind regards

 

Ian

[JeffP]

Thanks Ian.

Don't go to extremes with your safety.

[JeffP]

Having decided I now needed some 14BA x1/4" CSK screws, I ordered some, plus some spare nuts, and the same in 16BA, from "Items Mail Order Limited, of Saundby Nr Retford. 01427 848880.

I found his address in Railway Modelller and have been awaiting a reason to order from him.

To those who don't know of him, his range of fasteners is second to none and prices aren't dear. A list is available.

I have no connection with him whatsoever.

 

Anyhow.....

 

Awaiting my screws, I set about fitting the cast brass fishplates, (which arrived after the seller kindly resent), to the race rail. The first packet seems to have gone into oblivion.

 

However, my first problem was that I couldn't get the fishplate into place without lifting some of the chairs, since it slides neatly onto the rail web, locking the rails in a neat line, so about five chairs were lifted both sides of the gap. I had to insert a steel rule between the two bits of MDF and force the pins out from beneath far enough to get a grip with tiny needle-nose pliers...you'll remember I turned the heads down for a more scale appearance? It came back to bite me in the whatnot, I couldn't even get a sharp screwdriver under the heads. That'll teach me to put them in a slight angle for security too..I couldn't even shift them by levering the rail up. Oh well, at least they ARE secure.

 

Once the rail was loose, the fishplates were trial fitted. They spread alramingly.

I filed the inner slot with a Daimond Deb nailfile, (an excellent bit of kit, it's less than 0.7mm thick, and lasts ages), until the fishplates were a good sliding fit.

 

One side was fitted and the other wiggled into place.

 

THEN I discovered that, on cutting the rail to length, I had left an alraming gap at both ends. I had thought it would be OK, but on fitting the fishplate, one end glared at me.

 

This necessitated me cutting off a TINY piece of rail, from a spare bit, filing the foot off, filing it to about 1.2mm, and fitting it, before soldering it in place.........messing about with tiny bits like that...therein lies the route to madness, wibble....

 

(I SHOULD have filed off the foot before cutting it off...I know, I know...)

 

The result, prior to filing up, was this:

 

 

Now to do the same at the other rail joint, except that I will leave a larger gap to allow for expansion.

Edited December 2, 2013 by JeffP

[3 link]

Hi Jeff,

 

What can I say, these things happen to all of us from time to time. Still looking good though .

 

ATB,

 

Martyn.

[11B]

Hi Jeff,

 

My mate at work has a son that works for WCR, he sent him to work armed with a camera...........

 

Results look good and have been emailed to you.

 

Hope they help.

 

Ian

[JeffP]

Much as I hate the word, since it's very USA, those are Awesome, thanks a lot!

[JeffP]

What's that phrase about best laid plans?

 

Set out to do some more today, the screws I ordered yesterday arrived this morning, (and only 90p P&P)......but.....

 

The wife came home!

 

Apparently she was at two meetings today, so is working from home. And the first thing she did was to start asking me when I was going to do a job she's been asking me to do for a while.

 

So, to avoid dispute, I set out to do it.

Just before finishing, I managed to kick over a box containing ten each drills from 0.4 to 2.0mm. **

 

:nono:

 

So an hour spent, first FINDING the blasted things in the carpet, and then re-sorting them with the help of a micrometer. And yes, I did curse!

 

NOT what I'd expected to be doing today.

 

 

 

 

** I'm building the turntable mainly at one end of the living room, as it's just too big for my workbench. Hence box of drills on floor. Or rather, all over floor.

Edited December 3, 2013 by JeffP

[11B]

Much as I hate the word, since it's very USA, those are Awesome, thanks a lot!

 

Glad to be of help.

 

Ian

[JeffP]

Here is another question, for those in the know:

 

I have to solder the PECO fisplates supporting the rails on the bridge, to the copper-clad paxolin bridge. It is supported by six rail joiners per side, so at 8cm intervals.

 

The kit provides three jigs to ensure the rails are spaced evenly, BUT, that allows the rails to bend in between the jigs, since they are at the ends and in the centre. I used FOUR 32mm C&L jigs as well, but have still ended up with tight spots, plus my rails aren't dead straight..

 

Just how many jigs do you need for a 490mm rail section?

 

 

Perhaps more rail joiners?

[3 link]

Hi Jeff,

 

I would scribe out on the copper clad paxolin exactly where the rail is to go, and then use a straight edge ( steel rule or piece of timber ) start fixing only one rail at a time. Also do NOT solder the rail to one end and then the other end because you will get a bow in it, start at one end and slowly work your way along and keep using the straight edge and you will get a straight rail without problem, and then use the track gauge for the other rail and again start at one end and work along.

 

HTH,

 

Martyn.

Edited December 5, 2013 by 3 link

[ozzyo]

Hello JeffP,

 

Put a straight edge along the rails first and pick the rail that has the worst kinks to do first, if you see that some of the kinks are where the rail joiners are sort them out first on one rail using the straight edge.

 

I think what I'd try first is working from one end, is using the C&L gauges. Place one above the first rail joiner then one above the second rail joiner then one between the two above the rail joiners and one half way between the second and third. Apply heat to the first rail joiner, then move on to the second one, then move the gauge from the first one to the third one . Doing one side at a time.

 

 

 

OzzyO.

[66C]

Hi Jeff

 

By any chance are you soldering the rail?

 

I would expect that the idea is to solder the joiners to the copper-clad paxolin but leave the rail "loose" in the joiners so that it can expand and contract. You would need to ensure that the rail is a slide fit in the joiners before starting to solder the joiners in place.

 

This technique is also very useful when installing a checkrail on a tight curve as it allows for differential expansion of the running and check rails.

 

Regards.

[JeffP]

Hello JeffP,

 

Put a straight edge along the rails first and pick the rail that has the worst kinks to do first, if you see that some of the kinks are where the rail joiners are sort them out first on one rail using the straight edge.

 

I think what I'd try first is working from one end, is using the C&L gauges. Place one above the first rail joiner then one above the second rail joiner then one between the two above the rail joiners and one half way between the second and third. Apply heat to the first rail joiner, then move on to the second one, then move the gauge from the first one to the third one . Doing one side at a time.

 

 

 

OzzyO.

Falling asleep last night, that was almost what I thought of, your method is better and more detailed. Thanks again Ozzy!

I may have to get the 70W iron fired up, my little 25W Antex struggles to heat both sides of the solder at once, I have to leave it in position far too long.

 

I'm off to purchase a nice 1m long metal ruler from Wickes this afternoon, although 600mm would suit better.

[JeffP]

Hi Jeff

 

By any chance are you soldering the rail?

 

I would expect that the idea is to solder the joiners to the copper-clad paxolin but leave the rail "loose" in the joiners so that it can expand and contract. You would need to ensure that the rail is a slide fit in the joiners before starting to solder the joiners in place.

 

This technique is also very useful when installing a checkrail on a tight curve as it allows for differential expansion of the running and check rails.

 

Regards.

Yes, the rail remains loose, which is one problem, it's so much smaller in foot width than the rail joiner, that, once the joiner is soldered down, the rail can move side to side about 0.5-1.0mm!!!

One or two of the joiners have had their sides tapped flatter to try and avoid it doing so.

 

I've never used PECO SL10 rail joiners before. They were EXTREMELY tight to get on, needing to be tapped into place with a tiny hammer, and that's despite having filed a chamfer on both the foot, and the rail sides. I would HATE to have to use them to join two lengths of track!

 

 

Unfortunately, we have a flood warning for this evening: the River Trent is expected to breach near us, and we are in the flood zone. It'sa going to be a 7m tide, they say, so modelling is suspended while I move valuables, old photos etc upstairs.

Hopefully, only to bring them all down again tomorrow......

[JeffP]

Hi Jeff,

 

I would scribe out on the copper clad paxolin exactly where the rail is to go, and then use a straight edge ( steel rule or piece of timber ) start fixing only one rail at a time. Also do NOT solder the rail to one end and then the other end because you will get a bow in it, start at one end and slowly work your way along and keep using the straight edge and you will get a straight rail without problem, and then use the track gauge for the other rail and again start at one end and work along.

 

HTH,

 

Martyn.

Hi, thanks Martyn, the rail floats in the joiners, so no problems with expansion.

I think I'll scribe the copper clad, and as you and Ozzy said.

[JeffP]

Today's job: the clear plastic stretchers for the wheel assemby need to be bolted to the wheel assembly.

Screws need to go in from above, and their heads need to be below the surface of the plastic. The nuts are therefore under the top, inner and outer, surface of an "I" section.

 

First problem: how to hold the unit, and a 14BA nut, and insert, and then turn, the 14BA CSK screw.....BA nuts seem to have a life of their own, they skitter away at the first sign of any force with tweezers and are even difficult to pick up with fingers.

 

Anyway, here is my solution:

 

 

The tiny nut is embedded in a piece of Blu-Tak, and inserted into the space, being fettled into the correct position with a needle. The screw is then inserted and turned until you JUST start to feel it take up on the threads. Any more and you end up with the screw threads full of blu tack. At that point, pull out the Blu-Tak and tighten the screw.

 

Hope this helps anyone else with similar problems and tiny nuts in tiny spaces.

[JeffP]

How do you handle tiny nuts like 14, and 16BA to put them on the screw, from above, or from the side? Mine need to be fixed from above, but hard up against another vertical edge, so fingertips are useless.

 

Are those "nut spinners" any good? They would seem to be metric?

[N15class]

I have a propelling pencel one that takes leads of about 1/16. Lead removed, it holds nuts from 16-12 BA. Then once on just nip them up with a plyer and screwdriver.