Airfix BR 10T Meat Wagon Kit

[AliR53]

Hi, just about to put one of these old kits together. Does anyone have any idea what the interior colour scheme might be. I'm thinking white with a spattering of blood. But I have no idea really. I think it is just the butchers white coat influencing me. Any knowledge greatly received. The Airfix kit has opening doors, thats why I ask. Also were carcasses hung from a rail as modern day lorries? AliR 

[Neil]

I'm afraid I can't help with the interior colour scheme or rack fittings. I took the view that the hinges rather let down the otherwise rather nice mouldings on my example of the kit given to me by a friend. Modelling the doors closed allowed me to tart up refine the model.

 

 

 

[corax67]

There was an excellent thread on here about meat transportation with links to photo sites which may shed some light on your quest

 

http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/55023-meat-by-rail-in-the-1940s-and-1950s/

[AliR53]

Many thanks chaps. The thread was interesting but on reflection, maybe closed doors are an improved refinement.

[Captain Kernow]

This is one I did a few years ago, might need a bit more weathering...

 

[Brinkly]

I've always liked that van Tim.

Regards,

 

Nick.

[RonnieS]

Hi, just about to put one of these old kits together. Does anyone have any idea what the interior colour scheme might be. I'm thinking white with a spattering of blood. But I have no idea really. I think it is just the butchers white coat influencing me. Any knowledge greatly received. The Airfix kit has opening doors, thats why I ask. Also were carcasses hung from a rail as modern day lorries? AliR 

I think it would be scrubbed natural wood but in the days before H&S regulations it may have been unbelievably foul! I recall seing a pic with rail and hooks but I am not sure where. I would think the Insulated vans, Insulated containers and FM containers were all standardised inside. In LMS wagons vol 2 the containers had  8 bars, 6 hooks per bar.

[SRman]

AliR, if you really want to do the interior for fun, just do one such wagon with its doors open sitting in a siding or bay somewhere. Then do the refinements shown earlier on all the others for a running rake of the wagons. That way, you get the best of both worlds.

[AliR53]

Thanks SRman and RonnieS. At the moment I am only doing the 1 wagon (I only have one), which I will include in a rake of vans. However as part of my longer term plans include the building of a diorama which will be based around a goods yard and platform, I may acquire another one, which I think, as you suggest, would look good as a static with doors open.

According to the instructions the van should be painted Maroon or Brick Red. Any suggestions for which Precision, Humbrol or other paint would be best would be appreciated, preferably in spray can form. Alternatively do you think any would have been painted Bauxite (which I have in a Precision spray can).

Captain Kernow yours looks very convincing, so advice would be much appreciated.  

Also the transfers in the box look as if they are unusable, so does anyone know if any of the usual suspects make a sheet that includes the relevant transfers. Thanks in advance AliR

[Fat Controller]

In latter days, the survivors seem to have been painted bauxite; however, many had also been severely modified. Some had all the end vents, barring the top-most, removed, others had the side louvres replaced by planking. The ones on Paul Bartlett's site remain unmodified, but are no longer in meat traffic, as the traders' posters indicate. All seem to be in bauxite by the mid-late 1960s:-

http://paulbartlett.zenfolio.com/brmeatvan

[RonnieS]

Thanks SRman and RonnieS. At the moment I am only doing the 1 wagon (I only have one), which I will include in a rake of vans. However as part of my longer term plans include the building of a diorama which will be based around a goods yard and platform, I may acquire another one, which I think, as you suggest, would look good as a static with doors open.

According to the instructions the van should be painted Maroon or Brick Red. Any suggestions for which Precision, Humbrol or other paint would be best would be appreciated, preferably in spray can form. Alternatively do you think any would have been painted Bauxite (which I have in a Precision spray can).

Captain Kernow yours looks very convincing, so advice would be much appreciated.  

Also the transfers in the box look as if they are unusable, so does anyone know if any of the usual suspects make a sheet that includes the relevant transfers. Thanks in advance AliR

They were Red with straw lettering until about 1960 then changed to bauxite but the last repaints may have been 1970 or later so my train is mixed. Transfers from Modelmaster 'cos the Airfix ones are white. I like Precision faded carmine but my mates (who are a bit older) say a 50/50 mix of carmine and bauxite looks right. This looks good too in brick red Slaters Gauge 1 - Tower Models

 

Also here is Liveries for Meat Vans in the early to mid 60s

[Il Grifone]

These weren't the commonest of wagons. I can only ever remember seeing one (late fifties), which was a filthy brown colour, but probably red (crimson) underneath.

 

They would have been in BR crimson* when first built, which switched to maroon in 56/7, but I doubt any were repainted until going to bauxite in the sixties.

 

*Itself appearing to have been a rather variable colour on anything other than corridor coaches.

[hmrspaul]

Do we have evidence for the crimson finish, apart from the Airfix box? It is not in the 1959 repainting instructions.

 

I have never seen any "Return to" info for these, but have noticed they appear in photos of [branchlines] in Scotland. I believe they would have been used for collection meat from various abatoirs in Scotland (and possibly also in the West Country, but they seem to have used containers more often) and then to large populations. An early use of Freightliners was Sainsburys fresh meat from Scotland - there was a lot of PR about this at the time, so the MEAT wagons would have become redundant.

 

Paul

[The Bigbee Line]

We had a BM container at Dungeness CEGB as a store for lifting equipment.  IIRC it had been painted a light colour inside.  There were rails across the top, with loose hooks hanging from the rails.  these were useful for out storage.  Somewhere I have the numberplate from the container, I wish I could remember where..... (I also have two lumps of coal collected in 1994 from the safety track at the bottom of the steep grade at Saluda, plan to crush and use in some 2 bay hoppers, what sad gits we are)

[Alan Higgi]

Do we have evidence for the crimson finish, apart from the Airfix box? It is not in the 1959 repainting instructions.

 

 

 

Paul

I just finished a batch of these. In Dave Larkin's book (1948-54 page 6) crimson is quoted. My own memories are of a regular train whizzing by; sort of orangey red colour. However that was half a century ago. It was the silhouette, however, that burnt into my memory! The light through the side vents and spoked wheels. GRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRReat

[hmrspaul]

I just finished a batch of these. In Dave Larkin's book (1948-54 page 6) crimson is quoted. My own memories are of a regular train whizzing by; sort of orangey red colour. However that was half a century ago. It was the silhouette, however, that burnt into my memory! The light through the side vents and spoked wheels. GRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRReat

I am not saying it is wrong - far from it - but I certainly wouldn't take Dave L as a reliable source. He didn't start taking much notice of wagons before c1965 (he is only a couple of years older than me).

 

I am looking to hear from an official publication. BR was very poor at discussing colour - their own early official minutes mearly mention "grey" and "red" when the decision to use the different colours for unfitted/piped & power braked wagons. My own records (are only from 1959 and, by then, I suspect the MEAT traffic had gone. Whereas the use of white for chilled meat wagons and containers is clear - and in the early years the permission to use stone (another very variable colour) until white becomes available was recorded early on.

 

Only very slightly OT this is clearly branded FRESH MEAT - what colour was it? http://PaulBartlett.zenfolio.com/srvan/e31f0bb9b (and two more photos alongside.

 

 Your observation is interesting, whereabouts was it?

 

Paul

[hmrspaul]

We had a BM container at Dungeness CEGB as a store for lifting equipment.  IIRC it had been painted a light colour inside.  There were rails across the top, with loose hooks hanging from the rails.  these were useful for out storage.  Somewhere I have the numberplate from the container, I wish I could remember where..... (I also have two lumps of coal collected in 1994 from the safety track at the bottom of the steep grade at Saluda, plan to crush and use in some 2 bay hoppers, what sad gits we are)

The 1959 repainting instructions for interiors of insulated vans and containers is pale cream undercoat followed by pale cream emulsion, eggshell gloss finish. All other containers are unpainted interiors (no special mention of ventilated containers) Wagons were also usually unpainted but there are exceptions for wagons carrying some corrosive materials and if crew are to be carried (brake vans, departmental coaches etc).

 

 

Paul

[Captain Kernow]

Only very slightly OT this is clearly branded FRESH MEAT - what colour was it? http://PaulBartlett.zenfolio.com/srvan/e31f0bb9b (and two more photos alongside.

 

Looks very much like faded, tatty bauxite?

[Captain Kernow]

Thanks SRman and RonnieS. At the moment I am only doing the 1 wagon (I only have one), which I will include in a rake of vans. However as part of my longer term plans include the building of a diorama which will be based around a goods yard and platform, I may acquire another one, which I think, as you suggest, would look good as a static with doors open.

According to the instructions the van should be painted Maroon or Brick Red. Any suggestions for which Precision, Humbrol or other paint would be best would be appreciated, preferably in spray can form. Alternatively do you think any would have been painted Bauxite (which I have in a Precision spray can).

Captain Kernow yours looks very convincing, so advice would be much appreciated.  

Also the transfers in the box look as if they are unusable, so does anyone know if any of the usual suspects make a sheet that includes the relevant transfers. Thanks in advance AliR

I did mine maroon (airbrush), taking note of information already quoted on this thread. The transfers were Modelmaster. By the time my layout is generally set, it would probably have been repainted bauxite, or at least would have been much dirtier than I've currently got it, but I kind of did this one partly as a 'homage' to the Airfix kit.

 

Interestingly, given that the standard vans were much, much more common, I do wonder what kind of a job Airfix would have made of one of these (pretty good, is my bet).

[Adam]

Looks very much like faded, tatty bauxite?

 

I would concur with that (I had better, the 4mm Chivers version I built was finished on that basis!), based largely on the white - as opposed to faded yellow - lettering. Very attractive wagons I've always thought.

 

Adam

[hmrspaul]

I did mine maroon (airbrush), taking note of information already quoted on this thread. The transfers were Modelmaster. By the time my layout is generally set, it would probably have been repainted bauxite, or at least would have been much dirtier than I've currently got it, but I kind of did this one partly as a 'homage' to the Airfix kit.

 

Interestingly, given that the standard vans were much, much more common, I do wonder what kind of a job Airfix would have made of one of these (pretty good, is my bet).

It is possible Airfix wanted to avoid duplication with Kitmaster as they did the BR van - as a powered model IIRC. I cannot remember ever seeing one.

 

Paul

[Captain Kernow]

It is possible Airfix wanted to avoid duplication with Kitmaster as they did the BR van - as a powered model IIRC. I cannot remember ever seeing one.

 

Paul

There are some (not particularly clear) photos in 'Let's Stick Together' (by Stephen Knight, Irwell Press). Interestingly, the text alleges that the body moulding for the Kitmaster box van was pinched wholesale from a Hornby Dublo model!!

[The Bigbee Line]

The underframe on the meat van was quite advanced.  The buffers were the correct length for fitted vehicles.  For its age a 9/10 kit

[JeremyC]

Do we have evidence for the crimson finish, apart from the Airfix box? It is not in the 1959 repainting instructions.

 

I have never seen any "Return to" info for these, but have noticed they appear in photos of [branchlines] in Scotland. I believe they would have been used for collection meat from various abatoirs in Scotland (and possibly also in the West Country, but they seem to have used containers more often) and then to large populations. An early use of Freightliners was Sainsburys fresh meat from Scotland - there was a lot of PR about this at the time, so the MEAT wagons would have become redundant.

 

Paul

 

Don Rowlands 'British Railways Wagons, the first half million' states these vans originally received 'passenger livery' . They were built in 1952 so that would presumably be 'crimson'. There were only 250 of these diagram 1/250 vans built; the reason given for the small number is that most traffic was containerised.

 

The photo in the Don Rowland book shows one of these vans lettered 'ALE'.

 

Jeremy

[RonnieS]

Do we have evidence for the crimson finish, apart from the Airfix box? It is not in the 1959 repainting instructions.

 

 

 

Paul

What  a challenge! Somewhere in the background of some picture in thousands of books and magazines of a rm webber? Off the top of my head is Mr Larkin's long out of date booklet BR General Parcels Rolling Stock. On p17 he said the Fish van bears the livery crimson lake applied to Fish and Meat Vans. A pic and caption of an ex LMS meat van has been PMed to you. Edited to note that after the event I noticed that Paul does not like pms. I had always believed Fruit/Meat/Fish/ vans and Horseboxes were Crimson because of their Classification as NPCS. I seek not to offend you or challenge your greater knowledge.