Hobbs Lane

[KTM]

Hello and happy new year to all!

 

I’m introducing my O gauge layout which is under construction (the planning stages have been discussed in a topic over in the 7mm section). I’m lacking in stock, experience and skill but I’m rather hoping my enthusiasm can overcome this!

 

The layout is based on a secondary line in Sussex, set anytime in the 60s to provide a little flexibility with steam/diesel and possibly EMUs as I’m not sure if I will go for the third rail yet. The prototype location is a fictional ‘might have been’, being a single line linking the Horsham main line with somwwhere further East such as the Ardingly stub on the Bluebell railway or the Brighton line. The idea is that the line was originally built to serve local industry however a couple of small stations were put in to serve outskirts of growing towns. After WW2, the freight traffic began to tail off but there was a rising demand for commuter trains so the traffic ended up about 50:50. Hobbs Lane is such a station, with a usefully vague location and anonymous name that could be a secondary station in any of the towns in the area…but I also like the slightly sinister association with the strange goings on in ‘Quatermass & the Pit’.

 

I’m modelling a very small section of the line, being just 10ft long (scenic) but to maximise potential operation, instead of the usual BLT, it’s a through station. This will be operated mainly as a terminus but I’ll be able to justify more unusual workings associated with the odd light engine movement or through trains terminating prematurely due to faults on the line (such as this sort of weather)! This arrangement also provides the potential to connect up to other O gauge layouts.  

 

At just 18” wide, the track and scenery planning has proved a challenge! I’m using 2 main scenic boards, each 5ft long so there is just one visible baseboard join. It’ll be DCC and I’ll be fitting sound but building the layout comes first. By using 4 standard turnouts and one double-slip, I’ve devised a plan that provides for a run-round loop, a bay platform, a loco siding, a headshunt and the most pathetic coal siding of all time. My goal is to provide realistic operation and this will mean ‘proper’ levers to operate points and signals and I’d like to create the feel that there are other stations off scene to either end. Quite a challenge, but I’m more  interested in the feel of the real thing rather than strict to-the-letter prototype practice.

 

And now, here is the progress…

 

I’ve drawn the layout full size, using actual Peco points and flexi track as templates. This was photographed in sections and crudely stuck together to form this track plan.

 

 

Here is an example of the sketch work for the scenery on the station board. I’m trying to introduce variations in levels above and below track.

 

 

The full size plan also provided the opportunity to overlay the baseboard frames to ensure that they didn’t clash with point motor positions and also allowed for some basic scenery planning (where the frames would need to be cut).

 

 

 

 

 

Further updates to follow – but I don’t work at lightning speed like some of you!

 

Jon

 

 

[pointstaken]

I remembered the street name and the film it came from, but I couldn't remember the name of the film (probably a senior moment) !

 

Dennis

[KTM]

I remembered the street name and the film it came from, but I couldn't remember the name of the film (probably a senior moment) !

 

Dennis

 

Yes, I'll have to watch it again myself. In the film, 'Hobbs End' is the LT (Central Line) station which is located on 'Hobbs Lane', formally known as 'Hob's Lane' to connect it with the devil ('Hob'/'Hobgoblin'). My Hobbs Lane is located elsewhere and as such there is no obvious connection with the film BUT I may be tempted to incorporate an underground excavation in a similar vein!

 

 

It still gives me the creeps - Yes, in all it's crude 1950s sci-fi horror . Somehow, it felt closer to home being set in West London and on a familiar tube line. I just had to use it for my layout!

 

Jon

[two tone green]

Good luck with the new phase in your 7mm world. Will be following with great interest.

[Shedman5]

Hi, I'm considering a dabble with O Gauge so will be watching your progress with interest. Good Luck with it!

[Barnaby]

What with all those proposed lower levels just be careful you don't find any strange buried objects in the "Pits" when clearing the ground.

 

 

Looking good.

[BigBountyHunter]

Excellent!!!!! I love Quatermass and i love minimum space layouts!! what more could you want! I'll be following this one with keen interest thanks for sharing         

[Andrew P]

Hi Jon, The plan looks good and the pre planning even better, so sensible to lay the plan out to avoid point motor problems.

 

Lots of details to add as well and that should keep you busy for a while, so I will be looking back in to see the progress.

 

We have spoken before about the KTM's and I used to visit Brian Leask's shop at Crawley, when I lived near Portsmouth for Husky bits. I also worked in a bike shop in Horsham for 4 weeks, I can't remember the name of it but the owner was in his 60's and still Scrambling, the commute from Portsmouth was to far.

 

All the best with the project, having never watched any horror films I cant comment on that bit.

 

Andy

[KTM]

Hi Jon, The plan looks good and the pre planning even better, so sensible to lay the plan out to avoid point motor problems.

 

Lots of details to add as well and that should keep you busy for a while, so I will be looking back in to see the progress.

 

We have spoken before about the KTM's and I used to visit Brian Leask's shop at Crawley, when I lived near Portsmouth for Husky bits. I also worked in a bike shop in Horsham for 4 weeks, I can't remember the name of it but the owner was in his 60's and still Scrambling, the commute from Portsmouth was to far.

 

All the best with the project, having never watched any horror films I cant comment on that bit.

 

Andy

 

Thanks for the encouragement, Andy. Your layouts have been a great source of inspiration for me and yes, I've a long way to go!

 

There is only one bike shop in Horsham town now that I know of, a genuine repair/MOT place which started up around 5 years ago. Like old railway lines, the old favourites are disappearing. The KTM CEO bought Husky from BMW last year but I'm not sure if it was to develop the brand or to quosh the competition .

 

As for the layout, if the weather remains sh*te for the weekend, I expect there will be some construction progress to report. Haha! In a way, I'm glad that I only have 10ft of scenic space to model because I've read how much time the big layouts suck out of modeller's lives. Pre-cut ply is ready and waiting...

 

Jon

[KTM]

Well, to put a smile on my face in this gloomy weather a box has just arrived from Hattons.

 

A veritable feast presents itself with a box of a dozen Cobalt point motors and a dozen Cobalt-S point/signal levers. Among a few other items is my LH catch point so I'm running out of excuses to hold fire!

 

I've not tested the motor operation yet but I've read and heard great things about the Cobalt point motors. The one thing that I think lets them down (and tortoises) is that you need to apply power to move the points because I understand that moving by hand can damage the mechanism. All very well with the layout set up and plugged in but what about testing small sections at a time? I would have preferred to be able to manually change the points for track testing etc. 

 

The Cobalt levers will be used together to create the feel of the real signalbox. I've already counted up and I reckon I'll need all 12 just for the points and signals on the scenic section. It may seem a bit premature to cosider this before the baseboards are constructed but I want to avoid time-consuming mistakes later on. At some point, I'll have a go at a signalling diagram which may have to deviate from prototypical practice to suit rule 1 .

 

Although I've only taken them out of the box for a touchy-feely, the levers confirm what everyone else has been saying. They really do feel nice to operate and to me, they are a lovely size and provide plenty of movement for that signalbox feel. I think it'll be a good idea to build these into a demountable panel with a options for locating on either scenic board. This panel could include a 9V battery to power the point motors when testing/building each section of the layout.

 

So, the four visible turnouts, a double slip and the catch point will gobble up 7 levers and 7 motors. Two semaphore starters (West to Horsham/FY from main and bay) will take another 2 of each, then CLS at the East end of the platform (Ardingly or Haywards Heath) will need a switch but no motor. My plan is to model the rear face of a junction semaphore from Horsham (FY end) protecting entry to the station and signalling the route to the bay or the main platform. These would have to be semphores because from the normal operating position the front red signal arm face will not be visible. These will gobble up a further two of each, leaving me with 1 spare motor and no levers! I suppose I could cut back on the signalling but I see that as part of the operating fun and almost an essential requirement on a small (in scale track mileage terms) layout. I haven't even considered distant signals yet, or no doubt some other prototypical function I'm unaware of.

 

I suppose I'd better get on with it!

 

Jon

[Andrew P]

Good News Jon, now we will see some real progress and once the boards are done you will be onto a flyer.

 

NO STOPPING YOU NOW.       :locomotive: :locomotive:

 

Andy

Edited January 3, 2014 by Andrew P

[KTM]

Quick update: Baseboard frame number one and legs are complete, 9mm ply tops cut to size but not fixed down yet.

 

Next chalenge: I'm thinking of a way to best deal with the entry to the fiddle yard. I'm sure trhis is a well-trawled subject so I've sketched up two proposals and would appreciate a bit of feedback. So, here goes;

 

 

Sketch A details the original scenic break (a very imaginative bridge ) positioned to straddle the running line (single track) and the adjacent headshunt. The idea was that by looking along the line and under the bridge, you would see the first couple of feet of track so the headshunt area would be in for some scenic treatment at low level, even though it's beyond the scenic break. The Fiddle Yard entry point is also beyond the scenic break which is handy as it isn't supposed to be there with this arrangement! I'm hoping that the fiddle yard point will be less visible and therefore the effect will be of the main running line continuing out of sight to the left of the headshunt. 

 

Sketch B shows what could be achieved by moving the scnic break to the right, on to the fiddle yard board. Specidfically, this would provide another 24-30" of scenic area, which in this case includes the fiddle yard entry point. This area would be framed by a retaining wall to the rear and a (yes, you've guessed it ) bridge forming the scenic break, spanning the now double track entry in to the fiddle yard. This is all very well but the fiddle yard entry will look as if the main running line splits into two (up/down or maybe another arrangement) and could look, well, 'wrong'. 

 

I am going to operate the points and signals with proper signal box style levers and will need a track diagram for the signal box, showing all the 'visible' track. With sketch B, this would need to include the fiddle yard point and I'd like to explore how this may be justified on the prototype. For example, would the lines become up/down running lines just outside the station? Would there be a passing loop the other side of the bridge and this was one end of it? ...or alternatively, I can make out it's a junction of two main running lines forming a diverting route to another 'somewhere else' in Sussex. I guess the world is my lobster here but any ideas would be greatly appreciated.

 

Of course, keeping to sketch A will simplify things a bit and require less modelling work, which can be a bonus!

 

Jon.

 

PS I've introduced a slight angle change between the FY board and the main boards to best fit the home location.

Edited January 12, 2014 by KTM

[cromptonnut]

I still think "B" looks a little odd, there was a similar arrangement in the old layout at East Grinstead (up to recently) where the 2 track approach went down to 1 then out into the 2 platform lines (http://www.disusedrailways.co.uk/Now%20&%20Then1.htm) but it's operationally quite restrictive.

 

However, if one line was the "main" and the other was going off to a siding for a factory or something then perhaps it wouldn't be quite so odd, although I can't say I'm 100% convinced that would look right either.

 

It may be worth holding off on that end until Peco bring out their Setrack points which will be a lot shorter, and to the radius of the setrack curves (you could in fact buy two and make a reverse curve after you have enough length in your FY, and then use that positioning to create the right length of headshunt and where to put your bridge (replacing the first curve with the point when it comes out).  That'll be much shorter for the point and those few inches difference that ends up with a sort of compromise between options A and B?

 

I can scan a Peco setrack curve for you if you like, which will help in your calculations?  Or work on a quick measurement shows the total area, sleeper edge and rail edges, to be 31" x 8 3/4".

[KTM]

Thanks, Cromptonnut. I think I'll stick with A and re-evaluate when the Setrack points are released. The tight radius does concern me, though. There is also the loss of mug space on the fiddle yard board!

 

Jon

[cromptonnut]

My Heljan 33 runs quite happily on Peco setrack curves - remember the "6ft radius" rule that Peco points are based on was set by the Gauge O Guild based around most people running long steam locos with lots of wheels.  Modern 2 or 3 axle bogie diesels - and the Ixion steamers - have no problem with such curves.

 

You probably can't run into them at great speed - but then you wouldn't do so on the prototype in places where such points might be used such as yards - and as yours is a fiddle yard entrance if you ran into it flat out your train would probably end up on the sofa in the other room..

 

I understand the importance of mug space though - perhaps a small shelf above the track?

[KTM]

I've discovered that I NEEEEED a curved turnout!

 

Re-hashed the approach board slightly to allow for an angled exit and found that I can fit a Peco RH, a Peco double slip and a Peco LH curved point all within the length of a 5ft board. The plain track lines up pretty much as good as before, too

 

Overall plan of this board

 

 

View from station end

 

 

And from fiddle yard end

 

 

It's important that I get this plan fixed before cutting the top for this board because the ground level will drop away from the edeg of the track bed. I don't want to get the jigsaw out too soon - been there, done that

 

Anyway, I simply LOVE the look of the curved turnouts and this arrangement, with the angled joint to the adjancent board, allows another foot or so of scenic treatment before the unique bridge hiding the fiddle yard entry. This will need as short a point as possible, probably a Peco Y but ideally the Setrack points that don't exist yet.

 

Hurry up Peco!

 

Jon

 

 

 

 

 

 

[cromptonnut]

Yes, I like that a lot.  A curved point makes a big difference as it gets away from the train-set "ish" straight lines and everything parallel to the front of the board.

 

Of course they're big, and it's another expense you perhaps hadn't anticipated - but you can always add it to your next order somewhere...

[David Siddall]

It always struck me as a shame that the push-me-pull-you mechanisms on Peco's double-slip are really rather discreet yet their standard and curved turnouts feature a gurt great flippin box where no gurt great flippin box should be!  Admittedly the 'coffin' (as I think it might have been Chaz described it) can be eliminated but the work involved seems like a lot of faff when the wretched box has no justification for existing in the first place.

 

Definitely liking your plans progress :-)

 

David

[cromptonnut]

I have thought the very same about Peco points, David.

 

Perhaps the slip is new tooling but the standard points are older and there isn't the justification for the expense in "improvement"?

[81A Oldoak]

I have thought the very same about Peco points, David.

 

Perhaps the slip is new tooling but the standard points are older and there isn't the justification for the expense in "improvement"?

But the curved points are new tooling. Furthermore, why are there no coffins on the smaller scale offerings? Meanwhile, where appropriate, a dummy facing-point lock cover can be made up to conceal at least some of these monstrosities.

[Pacific231G]

Yes, I'll have to watch it again myself. In the film, 'Hobbs End' is the LT (Central Line) station which is located on 'Hobbs Lane', formally known as 'Hob's Lane' to connect it with the devil ('Hob'/'Hobgoblin'). My Hobbs Lane is located elsewhere and as such there is no obvious connection with the film BUT I may be tempted to incorporate an underground excavation in a similar vein!

 

HobbsLane.jpg

 

It still gives me the creeps - Yes, in all it's crude 1950s sci-fi horror . Somehow, it felt closer to home being set in West London and on a familiar tube line. I just had to use it for my layout!

 

Jon

Quatermass and the Pit was originally a BBC SciFi series transmitted live over the end of 1958 beginning of 1959. Hammer bought the film rights from the BBC and released their version in 1967. In the TV series it was just an ordinary redevelopment in Hobbs Lane that exposed the thing. The Central Line extension was an addition for the film but I always thought a very good one as it juxtaposed the threat with something very familiar.

The original series was written by Nigel Kneale and produced live by the same team that had produced the BBC's classic version of 1984.

I wasn't allowed to stay up and watch it when it was shown though I've seen the film several times but I did finally get a copy of the series which I'm enjoying. It actually stands up very well despite the slower pace of drama then and the story is still very thought provoking.

 

I hope you do include the diggings in your Hobbs Lane as well as the houses that have remained derelict since the war and not because of bomb damage !!!!

[Barnaby]

Hello.

 

The rippling sands outside of the church and the accompanying music have stayed with me to this day.  It was a series not to be missed in my late teens and I still think the story lines stand up today.

 

Regards

[KTM]

Yep, the story has held it's own over the years. I will try to incorporate a little bit of the mystique but first and foremost it's a model railway and rule 1 applies

 

My location and the line (BR(S) is a little bit skewed from the film too so I'm never going to properly scare visitors to the model!

 

Jon

[KTM]

Had a visit from Paul (another Horsham O gauger) on Saturday. It was great to meet you and see your models. Some very inspiring and inexpensive creations!

 

We set up some wagons on one of the boards and had a good natter whilst testing them through the points. What's palinly  obvious (and slightly unappreciated until then by me) is how long even a SHORT goods train can be! I was prepared for a two coach train being 3ft+loco but you only need about 5 mixed length wagons to beat that! Ooo-er.

 

Although the plan is for a through station, I may have to curtail any plans to actually operate short goods trains beyond the left hand end of the station. Even with an astronomical 20" available for a hidden fiddle-stick, it'll be gobbled up by a Terrier (Sept ) and a couple of milk tankers. The space may be better used to spread out the rest of the layout to comfortably accomodate 4ft-5ft long trains. I'm glad I haven't sawn up the second baseboard frames yet.

 

Paul also mentioned a place called 'Hobbs Field' in Horsham which I've looked up on the map and it's pretty much exactly where the branch would run through. Hobbs Lane was the long road that led out from town towards the dairy farm (well, I made that bit up to justify the Dapol tank wagons) so the contrived history/location is all coming together well.

 

Jon

[cromptonnut]

Didn't I say when I last visited that you'd be extending into the living room, and if the window opened wide enough, perhaps the front garden...?