Duke of Gloucester cancelled?

[gordon s]

Had this from Hatton's tonight...

 

This is an email to let you know that the following item has been cancelled from production, and so we have cancelled it from your order – reference 1532967. If this was the only item on that order, then it will be cancelled, otherwise, the order will remain on our system with the other items.

Hornby R3191, which you can see at http://www.ehattons.com/stockdetail.aspx?SID=60209

We are unsure of the specific reason for the cancellation, and will try to keep its descriptive text updated to provide any information which the manufacturer releases.

We apologise for any inconvenience this has caused.

 

[davidw]

odd, nice to see Hornby PR is as effective as ever..

[Mike at C&M]

As far as I am aware, R3191 has simply sold out from Hornby. Hornby stopped taking orders for it well in advance of it being released, and we too would have liked more than we got.

 

I don't share the belief that this is any fault of Hornby.

[7013]

I am not in the blame game but not producing enough for the demand is not doing their credibility any good. I generally do not touch Hornby stuff (apart from the Sentinel) these days. Hopefully for those who want a Duke Hornby will do a run again sometime. I wonder how much R3191 will be priced on ebay.

 

Edit there is one for £121.98

[Mike at C&M]

Hornby are not alone in selling out a production run of a loco before it is released. There have been recent instances with Bachmann and Dapol as well.

 

The basic problem is the production slots that are booked in China, there is not the flexibility to simply add more to the run when they are made.

[S.A.C Martin]

This surely - if it's the case they've sold out - is actually a GOOD news story (even if I personally am ambivalent about the quality of the model), and a definite vindication for Hornby in their choice of modelling subject. Credit where it is due.

[7013]

I know 87029, time was when there would be a few extras ordered, I think there is one in my local shop at about £120 , there will be some on the shelves around the country if people who want one are prepared to search.

[andyman7]

There are definitely a few about on other shops' shelves, just because Hattons have sold out it doesn't mean they are all gone. I know Janes Trains in Tooting and Scale Rail in Horley have this in stock. At least it gives another dealer a chance to sell one! 

[gordon s]

Hold on a sec, this wasn't a new order.  I placed it on the 18th December 2012….

 

I thought it was a variant with the later crest, but it would appear they all had the late crest.

 

In that case I have no idea what Hattons have done with my order when others appear to have theirs and there are still some in the shops?

 

Strange?

[APOLLO]

The whole model railway supply situation is strange at the moment.

 

Called in Hattons a couple of weeks ago, couple of large cabinets full of secondhand, some of it real tat. Never seen that before. Not Hattons fault, they are a reputable firm, trying their best to survive I suppose.

 

Not really Hornby (or Bachmann's) faults either much. There are big problems over in China, that Hornby etc can do next to nothing about.

 

Brit15

[robmcg]

Strange indeed that Hattons should say that R3191 is no longer in production, and to cancel a pre-order.

 

One wonders if because of QC issues Hornby have pulled the plug?

 

typo edit

[Dan Hill]

Had this from Hatton's tonight...

 

This is an email to let you know that the following item has been cancelled from production, and so we have cancelled it from your order – reference 1532967. If this was the only item on that order, then it will be cancelled, otherwise, the order will remain on our system with the other items.

 

Hornby R3191, which you can see at http://www.ehattons.com/stockdetail.aspx?SID=60209

 

We are unsure of the specific reason for the cancellation, and will try to keep its descriptive text updated to provide any information which the manufacturer releases.

 

We apologise for any inconvenience this has caused.

I got that email as well. Not sure why though as my one arrived from Hattons yesterday.

[tender]

Hold on a sec, this wasn't a new order. I placed it on the 18th December 2012….

 

I thought it was a variant with the later crest, but it would appear they all had the late crest.

 

In that case I have no idea what Hattons have done with my order when others appear to have theirs and there are still some in the shops?

 

Strange?

That is strange Gordon, we ordered ours in January from eHattons and got one of the second batch. R3191 is the Special Edition with etched nameplates (late crest).

[colin penfold]

I've seen other instances quoted when Hattons have said it's a production issue when others have got stock. Strikes me they might be blaming Hornby to cover up the fact that they took more orders than they could fulfill. Hope not, but it's a theory.

[The Stationmaster]

Hold on a sec, this wasn't a new order.  I placed it on the 18th December 2012….

 

I thought it was a variant with the later crest, but it would appear they all had the late crest.

 

In that case I have no idea what Hattons have done with my order when others appear to have theirs and there are still some in the shops?

 

Strange?

I do wonder if you are a 'victim' of Hattons' spin - they use these sort of words to describe the situation when they have sold out.  When they say a model is 'discontinued' it simply means they haven't got any and they can't get anymore although other retailers still have the model concerned in stock.  In this particular case R3191 was a 2013 catalogue item and is not in the 2014 catalogue so it is correct to say it is 'discontinued' although obviously what they really mean is that they have sold out of their allocation and can't get any more.

 

If I were you I'd be inclined to have words with them in view of what 'tender' has said in his post.

 

This surely - if it's the case they've sold out - is actually a GOOD news story (even if I personally am ambivalent about the quality of the model), and a definite vindication for Hornby in their choice of modelling subject. Credit where it is due.

I agree absolutely - if you sell all that you can make then to me that is a commercial success - provided of course that you make a profit in the process.  However I do sympathise in some ways with other comments in that at least they owe it to the retail trade and the end customers, i.e. us,  to produce sufficient models to match pre-orders because if they fall short in that area they are not entirely living up to their vision, which includes the words  'Success through focussed execution'

[robmcg]

The crux of it is that Hattons cannot supply a pre-order, Hattons haven't got the item and cannot promise future delivery, which may mean that Hornby have or had limited supplies and perhaps that Hornby have not committed to further production.

 

I thought in a rash moment maybe demand was good so Hornby thought they might re-engineer R3191 a little; smokebox handles, better assembly, but then the moment passed.  Seems the 1960s BR version of the Duke is still planned, and the TTS version.. 

[Steffi_C]

Hold on a sec, this wasn't a new order.  I placed it on the 18th December 2012.

 

A fact born out by your order number.  Unless your order included other items and you had indicated that you wanted combined delivery, you should have been sent this from Hatton's first batch last December.

 

I'd certainly have a word with Hattons, but unfortunately that won't get you the model.  There are plenty still available from other retailers at the moment though, so you should find one without too much difficulty.

[robmcg]

Indeed R3191 is available here and there, TMC Models have 20 (today) at £110, and one weathered coaled version for £145  (no connection except as customer.)

[rodger5591]

I also received this email cancelling my pre-order but I think the title of this thread is a bit misleading - DoG has not been cancelled, only item R3191 has, and I don't think it is all Hatton's 'spin'.

R3191 is the main range DoG from the 2013 catalogue, and since there are 2 new DoG and a DoG train pack offered in the 2014 catalogue, it doesn't make sense in an environment of production constraints to start another production run for a 2013 catalogue item that has a 2014 equivalent. However the 2013 Railroad DoG R3168 continues to be produced as there is no new Railroad version offered in the 2014 catalogue.

The upside is Hornby may take the opportunity to fix some of the issues mentioned in the various DoG threads, the downside is that Hornby 2014 prices are quite a bit more than their 2013 prices. For example, Hattons are offering the 2013 T9 (still yet to see the light of day) for UKP 88, while the 2014 T9 is offered at UKP 111.20

Interesting that Hattons are now pricing many items in pounds/pence instead of whole pounds as they used to - it indicates how slim their margins have become.

[gordon s]

Thanks for the info.  Managed to get one this morning from Gaugemaster for £107.  I've dealt with Hattons for years and never had a problem, so was a little surprised by their mail.  The thread title reflected my uncertainty as to whether or not Hornby had cancelled DoG completely.  The email could possibly have conveyed that impression, so I wondered if this was a new development.

 

Not making enough of a model in demand is almost as bad as making too many, only you don't lose money and the speculators make the most profit.

[Ian Hargrave]

Had this from Hatton's tonight...

 

This is an email to let you know that the following item has been cancelled from production, and so we have cancelled it from your order – reference 1532967. If this was the only item on that order, then it will be cancelled, otherwise, the order will remain on our system with the other items.

 

Hornby R3191, which you can see at http://www.ehattons.com/stockdetail.aspx?SID=60209

 

We are unsure of the specific reason for the cancellation, and will try to keep its descriptive text updated to provide any information which the manufacturer releases.

 

We apologise for any inconvenience this has caused.

I,too,received this ,despite the fact that Hattons delivered R 3191 to me a month ago.

[Paul Cram]

Thanks for the info.  Managed to get one this morning from Gaugemaster for £107.  I've dealt with Hattons for years and never had a problem, so was a little surprised by their mail.  The thread title reflected my uncertainty as to whether or not Hornby had cancelled DoG completely.  The email could possibly have conveyed that impression, so I wondered if this was a new development.

 

Not making enough of a model in demand is almost as bad as making too many, only you don't lose money and the speculators make the most profit.

I would suggest that they have made enough, it is just that they have supplied them to all their retailers and not just Hattons. The fact that you were able to purchase one elsewhere is evidence of this. How many did Hattons sell that were not pre ordered? Is this just an error at their end or were they not supplied with enough for them to fill all their pre orders?  It is difficult for manufacturers to predict how well any new model will sell and under supply is preferable to them than over supply where capital is tied up in stock.

[gordon s]

Curiosity got the better of me, so I rang Hattons.  It would appear that credit card details are locked to an order and not updated automatically.  My card was cloned a year or so back and and a new one issued.  Even though I have since ordered from them on my new card, the old card was declined at the time of shipment.  They would normally contact buyers in this situation, but I never received the mail and consequently it was never shipped the first time round and my order simply slipped back until all stock was exhausted.  Not the end of the world, but worth bearing in mind for the future.

 

I would agree their email is misleading when you take this info into account.

[Graham_Muz]

This is not the first time that Hattons appear to have taken more pre-orders from customers that they then actually order on a manufacturer and then find they can not increase their initial stock order and advise customers that production has been cancelled. The same thing certainly happened with the initial batch of BR ( s) pull push units. This in my mind is misleading practice.

['CHARD]

Interestingly, I had an email this morning from Model Railways Direct where R3191 is not only in stock but discounted by 20%, apparently!