RMweb Premium Gordieb01 Posted April 5, 2014 RMweb Premium Share Posted April 5, 2014 This new wagon from BachmanDiagram 1/448 of 1954 looks on the surface a nice new model for BR era modellers. However I wonder why (and Hornby are very guilty of this as well) they haven't modelled the earlier LMS or LNER versions of these wagons therefore allowing Big Four era modellers like myself to consider this as a purchase. After all a number of these earlier wagons would have lasted into the 50s and 60s. Both the larger manufacturers seem to regard earlier wagon types as too difficult. Gordon Bartram Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Bigbee Line Posted April 5, 2014 Share Posted April 5, 2014 This new wagon from BachmanDiagram 1/448 of 1954 looks on the surface a nice new model for BR era modellers. However I wonder why (and Hornby are very guilty of this as well) they haven't modelled the earlier LMS or LNER versions of these wagons therefore allowing Big Four era modellers like myself to consider this as a purchase. After all a number of these earlier wagons would have lasted into the 50s and 60s. Both the larger manufacturers seem to regard earlier wagon types as too difficult. Gordon Bartram38-750_EP.jpg It may be that they had access to this particular prototype? In a selfish way it's OK for me. Maybe they could do the Ferry Version, Diag 1/449? These were taken during revision in 2002 at Toton Wagon Shops This is 217060940467 before overhaul on 5th july 2001 at Toton Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium brushman47544 Posted April 5, 2014 RMweb Premium Share Posted April 5, 2014 The problem with long lived Big 4 period wagons is the availability of drawings and/or existing prototypes to measure up, especially if they have been rebuilt or upgraded over the years. I'm sure though that Bachmann would include backdating in their tooling options if it was possible. But since Era 5/6 is reportedly the most popular, it makes financial sense to start there. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Tomlinson Posted April 5, 2014 Share Posted April 5, 2014 If I remember correctly, the Parkside Long Tube kit is also Dia 1/448, which makes the choice of this in RTR, rather than the earlier diagram, a real shame - we could have had some variety. I also seem to remember that Geoff Kent did a conversion to the earlier type in his famous book trilogy, and so this remains the only way to go. John. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dunsignalling Posted April 5, 2014 Share Posted April 5, 2014 IIRC, there used to be a kit for the LMS or LNER type (not sure which) produced by Ian Kirk (and, later, Colin Ashby). As I haven't seen any lately, I assume it's no longer available new. John Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Mark Forrest Posted April 5, 2014 RMweb Premium Share Posted April 5, 2014 IIRC, there used to be a kit for the LMS or LNER type (not sure which) produced by Ian Kirk (and, later, Colin Ashby). As I haven't seen any lately, I assume it's no longer available new. John It was the LMS (short) type; Chivers Finelines offer a kit of the same, see RC465 here, I've built a couple they go together very nicely. I have one of the Colin Ashby kits which I'm part way through converting to the LNER type, might even finish it one day (probably just in time for someone to announce a RTR version). Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Enterprisingwestern Posted April 6, 2014 RMweb Gold Share Posted April 6, 2014 Sutherland Models (IIRC) did a kit for the LNER version. Mike. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arthur Posted April 6, 2014 Share Posted April 6, 2014 Sutherland Models (IIRC) did a kit for the LNER version. Mike. That might have been Nu Cast Mike, or very possibly Nu Cast acquired it from Sutherland. I've a couple of part completed ones somewhere, whitemetal chassis with plastic bodywork. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
'CHARD Posted April 6, 2014 Share Posted April 6, 2014 Looking forward to these. Have space for half a dozen in the Millerhill - Kingmoor scheme of things.... Makes a change for RTR transition era four wheelers to be cut from different cloth than the Parkside range! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Mark Forrest Posted April 6, 2014 RMweb Premium Share Posted April 6, 2014 I might add one or two of the Bachmann ones to the BCB fleet, to make up the numbers, but my preference will be to stick to the Parkside as it's likely to be easier to fit suspension and incorporate detail differences such as variations in axleboxes, buffers and the chalkboards on the ends. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Clive Mortimore Posted April 6, 2014 RMweb Premium Share Posted April 6, 2014 Looking forward to these. Have space for half a dozen in the Millerhill - Kingmoor scheme of things.... Makes a change for RTR transition era four wheelers to be cut from different cloth than the Parkside range! Hi Chard The Parkside tube is advertised as aDia 1/447 but is vacuum fitted which suggest it is a dia 1/448 as no 1/447s were vacuum fitted. Therefore the Bachmann model appears to the same type as the Parkside model. It looks like it is going to be an excellent addtion to many layouts. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
'CHARD Posted April 6, 2014 Share Posted April 6, 2014 Hi Chard The Parkside tube is advertised as aDia 1/447 but is vacuum fitted which suggest it is a dia 1/448 as no 1/447s were vacuum fitted. Therefore the Bachmann model appears to the same type as the Parkside model. It looks like it is going to be an excellent addtion to many layouts. Oh the irony! (shakes head) I think I've even built one, now I reflect on it.... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Mark Forrest Posted April 6, 2014 RMweb Premium Share Posted April 6, 2014 IIRC the Parkside kit includes alternative parts for the unfitted push brakes - although I have a vague recollection that the diagram 1/447 is shorter in overall length Edit to add: diagram 1/447 17'6" wb, 30'6" over headstocks; 1/448 18'6" wb, 32' over headstocks (the first lot of 450 built in 1954 being built unfitted) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Clive Mortimore Posted April 6, 2014 RMweb Premium Share Posted April 6, 2014 Hi Mark From the Parkside website "2350 of these wagons were built between 1954 and 1961 to BR's own design to carry steel tubes and other long loads. Some still survive in the infrastructure companies fleets. Our kit gives a choice of BR Long Link push brakes or clasp brakes for the vacuum fitted wagons. There is also a choice of Oleo or spring buffers and oil or Hybox axle boxes." The number built, dates of building and the choices of brake gear and axle boxes matches the 1/448 not the 490 dia 1/447 that were built between 1951 and 1953. Infor from "An Illustrated History of BR Wagons" P Bartlett et al. I have also measured my model and that is 128mm long over the body, scale 32 feet which is correct for a 1/448. The also make an Ale Pallet wagon using the tube chassis, these were converted from dia 1/448s. I think there is a typo on their advert. The Bachmann model will be a great addtion to many layouts. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arthur Posted April 6, 2014 Share Posted April 6, 2014 For interest this is the basic NuCast LNER tube wagon, there is a bag full of whitemetal castings still to fit. It's been at this stage for.........twenty years.......I really must finish it!! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Astockfan101 Posted April 6, 2014 Share Posted April 6, 2014 This will be nice for us London Underground modellers as well. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glorious NSE Posted April 6, 2014 Share Posted April 6, 2014 After all a number of these earlier wagons would have lasted into the 50s and 60s. Pre-BR tubes were in active departmental use into the 1990s. http://paulbartlett.zenfolio.com/lnertube/h29f2cd95#h29f2cd95 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Mark Forrest Posted April 6, 2014 RMweb Premium Share Posted April 6, 2014 For interest this is the basic NuCast LNER tube wagon, there is a bag full of whitemetal castings still to fit. It's been at this stage for.........twenty years.......I really must finish it!! image.jpg I'd forgotten there was an LNER version with doors. The conversion I had started was for one of the ones without doors, like this. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Enterprisingwestern Posted April 7, 2014 RMweb Gold Share Posted April 7, 2014 For interest this is the basic NuCast LNER tube wagon, there is a bag full of whitemetal castings still to fit. It's been at this stage for.........twenty years.......I really must finish it!! image.jpg Mine can beat that, still unfinished after about 35 years. Well, there were no transfers then, that's my excuse! Mike. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hmrspaul Posted April 7, 2014 Share Posted April 7, 2014 For interest this is the basic NuCast LNER tube wagon, there is a bag full of whitemetal castings still to fit. It's been at this stage for.........twenty years.......I really must finish it!! image.jpg Isn't that the PIPE, http://paulbartlett.zenfolio.com/lnerpipe The LNER Tube is a much longer wagon http://paulbartlett.zenfolio.com/lnertube I know Nucast did the Pipe. The dropside Tube would be a very useful model, they lasted a long time - BR built more and the engineers found them very useful. But then, the longer BR tube, as Bachmann and Parkside were also very useful with long lives. Paul Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arthur Posted April 7, 2014 Share Posted April 7, 2014 You are, of course, right Paul, thanks for that, and to Brian W (Fat Controller) who pm'd me. It's clearly marked as a Pipe Wagon by NuCast, just me thinking 'Tube Wagon' thread. Mike, the back of the instructions have drawings of other NuCast wagons. Most are Highland Railway prototypes which suggests a Sutherland Castings origin. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jjnewitt Posted April 7, 2014 Share Posted April 7, 2014 Conoisseur did a 4mm etched kit for the LNER/BR diagram 1/445 tube but this is sadly now unavailable. To me it's a shame that Bachmann did the standard BR tube as opposed to any of the other late LNER/LMS or indeed GWR types especially given the availablity of the Parkside kit which, despite how it may be labelled, is a 1/448 the same as the Bachmann model. There are prototypes out there that can be measured up, except for the late GWR tubes, so lack of information wouldn't have been a barrier to doing another type. Justin Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium MJI Posted April 9, 2014 RMweb Premium Share Posted April 9, 2014 Too late for me, I have lots of Parkside ones, even fitted some with roller bearings from MJT as PS did not supply them. Mind you I nagged them for years Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
DropTheTap Posted April 12, 2014 Share Posted April 12, 2014 Sorry to stray a little off topic but do RTR manufacturers ever develop models straight from that currently available as a kit? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fat Controller Posted April 12, 2014 Share Posted April 12, 2014 Sorry to stray a little off topic but do RTR manufacturers ever develop models straight from that currently available as a kit? If they did, I don't think they'd admit to it.. They often seem to use assembled kits as illustrations of forthcoming models. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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