Domestic Coal Piles

[Ray H]

It has been indicated to me that the local coal merchants in (at least) LNWR goods yards were less likely to have the so called staithes and would, instead, simply have piles of coal on the ground.

 

Would these piles be close to the track as would occur if the coal was simply shovelled straight out of the wagon and onto the floor?

 

Would any remainder in the pile be added to each time a new wagon arrived or would a new pile be started allowing the older stock to be gathered up and sold? Presumably the coal was not always sourced from the same wholesaler or even pit and different coals are known to have different burning properties. Did that have any impact on the piles?

[The Stationmaster]

I'm not familiar with this method in earlier times although some merchants were indulging in it in the 1960s on the WR (and probably earlier) and it was very common in closed yards where coal merchants continued to rent space.  In fact in the latter situation it was a never ending battle keeping up with them taking more space than they paid for as they tended to tip loads almost anywhere if newly arrived coal was of a different grade - stuff of the same grade went on the original stack usually.

[Ray H]

Thanks Mike.

 

I should perhaps have worded the query slightly differently. The comment made to me related to ex-LNWR yards so presumably even in the latter days of BR wagonload, customs from days of yore would continue rather than change for the sake of it. So if there weren't staithes originally it was unlikely that they'd be introduced subsequently.

[Pobrien]

Lawrence Hill, Bristol

 

https://www.flickr.com/photos/55350440@N06/5132591414/in/photolist-8PxSBq-bvugdk-98tLAx-bvug94-9MrewB-9MreoF-8Px4kV-fc7Esb-9MrehZ-9egWm1-gMBL1Z-gMBKXx-8XmEWa-e9pNbs-8PA4iY

 

https://www.flickr.com/photos/55350440@N06/5400478649/in/photolist-9edS9R-ndpM3H-dspxGf-fc7Eu9-g3Eg5f-8RsVEb-e24US9-aWFjGg-bCoAQj-aCgdEt-bcaEuH-911Rda-8YfsBe-9rN9HG-98wURs-fc7Ers-8XpJKw-9YBbP5-9egWnY-9YyhJP-9aEvpf

[jamie92208]

I've gor a rather large aerial photo of Lancastr Green Ayre coal yard in the early 50's.  It has piles of coal along the perimeter wall.  Most dividers seem to be between space rented by different merchants.  they are all seperated from the tracks by a roadway large enough to turn their vehicles on.  I haven't got a copy of the photo that I can post but could try and photograph the relevant portion if you are interested.  The coal yard is a fairly standard one with three roads, two close together where most unloading was done and a row of coal merchants offices and huts alongside the main road.

 

Jamie

[90171]

I suspect that the issue of drops or loose piles,  might depend more on local facilities and/or topography rather than being a particular company policy, Certainly on the LNWR transpennine line there were coal cells at many places between Huddersfield and Marsden, and such would be considered the norm, where a line on a hillside made it easy to build them.  These LNWR drops had a storage level above the vehicle yard, so that coal could be discharged via chutes into sacks on the backs of carts -- a very welcome saving in labour one imagines !

Picture at http://railway-photography.smugmug.com/HuddersfieldRailways/Hillhouse-Mpd/Hillhouse-Coal-Staithes/

[Ray H]

I'm thinking much further south, in the Verney Junction area.

 

The yard is most definitely flat (as is the land all round) and the yard is (very) small. I want to dump some coal in piles on the ground but just wanted some guidance as to whether the coal would be simply shovelled out of the wagon onto the ground alongside (and retrieved therefrom when bagged if it couldn't be bagged straight from the wagon) or whether it would have perhaps been double shovelled (manually - not enough trade for any form of automation here) and moved away from the track side to facilitate unloading other wagons (by the same merchant) if required.

 

Perhaps there was no hard and fast rule, with each site/merchant being different.

 

There'd only be one merchant and most likely only the occasional wagon.

[Pobrien]

Photo of much smaller coal merchant site, with coal wagon, lorry and coalman in attendance. Same location as earlier photos.

 

https://www.flickr.com/photos/bristolsteam/8175104222/

[Ray H]

Many thanks for the pictures. All seem to show the coal pile clear of the track and I can see advantages in moving it away from the track and for simply shovelling it from wagon to floor. I suppose it all depended on when the merchant thought he could sell what was on the ground and when he expected the next load.