darren01 Posted June 23, 2014 Share Posted June 23, 2014 Hi Can anyone help me identify this coach?, as i would like to get one to add to my layout. Thanks Darren01 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Taz Posted June 23, 2014 RMweb Gold Share Posted June 23, 2014 It's an ex LMS brake third. I can't really give you any more detail from that angle I'm afraid. Maybe someone more knowledgeable would be able to identify the diagram number? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silver Sidelines Posted June 23, 2014 Share Posted June 23, 2014 The location and the single unit rail car are very BR (WR). The coach in my mind is very LMS shaped. I did think Stanier but it is not the Stanier BSK as modelled by Hornby. May be a start for you Regards RAy Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
34theletterbetweenB&D Posted June 23, 2014 Share Posted June 23, 2014 I think it has to be a standard Period 3 LMS design brake third from the roof ventilator and bogtank filler and pipe positions. Cannot see a handrail on the LHS of the end which might be a helpful detail for an LMS expert to identify the most likely diagram, no way of telling if there are duckets on the brake end. The best fits in RTR are the current Hornby model, or Bachmann's coming 'Porthole' version (lazily assuming there that Bach will offer a BSK). Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Taz Posted June 23, 2014 RMweb Gold Share Posted June 23, 2014 What I'm not sure about is the end the toilet filler pipes are coming from. As per the picture of the model most diagrams of BSK had the filler pipes coming from the compartment end of the coach. The picture seems to show the filler pipes coming from the luggage end of the coach? It won't be a porthole BSK as by then the layout of BSK had switched the toilet position to the end of the coach, rather than between the compartments and the luggage space. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
JZ Posted June 23, 2014 Share Posted June 23, 2014 Certainly looks like a Stanier carriage, can't be that many that made it to Torrington. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mark54 Posted June 23, 2014 Share Posted June 23, 2014 What I'm not sure about is the end the toilet filler pipes are coming from. As per the picture of the model most diagrams of BSK had the filler pipes coming from the compartment end of the coach. The picture seems to show the filler pipes coming from the luggage end of the coach? It won't be a porthole BSK as by then the layout of BSK had switched the toilet position to the end of the coach, rather than between the compartments and the luggage space. It may be D1971 BTK no. 5844 built in 1937 as part of the Coronation Scot evaluation.This is the only coach that I can see in OPC Illustrated History of LMS Standard Coaching Stock with the filler pipes coming from the brake end. It was an experimental design with a slightly different body profile and central underframe trussing. Mark Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
darren01 Posted June 24, 2014 Author Share Posted June 24, 2014 The location and the single unit rail car are very BR (WR). The coach in my mind is very LMS shaped. I did think Stanier but it is not the Stanier BSK as modelled by Hornby. May be a start for you Regards RAy Hi looking at the roof of this coach, the filler pipe is between the two rows of roof shells, completely to opposite end on the model. It may be D1971 BTK no. 5844 built in 1937 as part of the Coronation Scot evaluation.This is the only coach that I can see in OPC Illustrated History of LMS Standard Coaching Stock with the filler pipes coming from the brake end. It was an experimental design with a slightly different body profile and central underframe trussing. So if it is this coach it is a rare site at Torrington and a long way from home. I have looked in all my books on coaching stock and can not find anything that looks like this one, a few come close. Thanks for the info. Will keep trying to identify this coach, as it now bugging me. Darren01 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
YK 50A Posted June 26, 2014 Share Posted June 26, 2014 Hello all, Not for the first time, I found this thread via Ray (Silver Sidelines) Flickr photostream and I can at least explain the coaches appearance at Torrington. It would not have been unusual at all. As has already been said, I'm sure it's a Stanier Period 3 BSK, although I cannot comment on its specific diagram. Torrington became part of the WR (from the SR) after boundary changes in January 1963. Prior to services being dieselised, mostly post-war LMS designed stock was transferred from the ScR to the MR and the WR. Bulleids and Gresley's also found their way to the WR from the SR and ScR respectively. I have a photo in a book somewhere of an ex-GWR Prairie hauling a maroon Gresley TSO (I think) and a Bulleid BCK, probably paired because of compatible Pullman gangways. I believe the moves were triggered by the SR need for ETH equipped Mk1 stock and subsequent cascading and swapping. The coach would most likely have been maroon with a W prefix and M suffix. As has also already been said, the Hornby BSK (and not the upcoming Bachmann Porthole) will be a close but not identical match. I can't easily access the running numbers of the vehicles involved in the moves, but the information is out there. Hope it's of interest, Alun Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
YK 50A Posted June 27, 2014 Share Posted June 27, 2014 I have found this photograph of a post-war built, W prefixed, M suffixed, maroon Stanier BSK: https://flic.kr/p/6pKJQ2. It's coupled to another Stanier and in the company of what looks like 2 more (although I'm not 100% sure regarding the one on the platform). Like I wrote, not unusual. Alun Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wheatley Posted June 27, 2014 Share Posted June 27, 2014 It may be D1971 BTK no. 5844 built in 1937 as part of the Coronation Scot evaluation.This is the only coach that I can see in OPC Illustrated History of LMS Standard Coaching Stock with the filler pipes coming from the brake end. It was an experimental design with a slightly different body profile and central underframe trussing. The photo in there of 5844 shows the alarm gear in the 'lazy V' arrangement, rather than that shown above which is the classic 'horizontal with a raised bit in the middle' arrangement. Might it be simply a bog standard D1851/D1905 with the filler pipes on the wrong way round ? Works have done stranger things on overhauls. (Or 5844 with new alarm gear of course). Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
YK 50A Posted June 28, 2014 Share Posted June 28, 2014 ...Might it be simply a bog standard D1851/D1905 with the filler pipes on the wrong way round ? Works have done stranger things on overhauls. (Or 5844 with new alarm gear of course). The more I think about, I agree. Definitely a post-war build, and although it could be one of several, if you want a specific running number (and without time consuming research for alternatives) W26585M will do. Incidentally, and I didn't notice this at first, in the photo I posted a link to above, it's a Porthole in the background, probably an SK. Apologies to Ray for duplicating. Alun Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mark54 Posted June 28, 2014 Share Posted June 28, 2014 The more I think about, I agree. Definitely a post-war build, and although it could be one of several, if you want a specific running number (and without time consuming research for alternatives) W26585M will do. It can't be post-war build as it has a centrally positioned toilet. All post-war build BTK had the toilet adjacent to the end vestibule. Another possibility is D1963 which is not illustrated in the OPC book. Only 24 were built - nos. 5845-5868, but they were a ton or two lighter than D1905. Mark Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
YK 50A Posted June 28, 2014 Share Posted June 28, 2014 It can't be post-war build as it has a centrally positioned toilet. All post-war build BTK had the toilet adjacent to the end vestibule. I think you're getting confused. 26585 has got a toilet at the end vestibule. That (and the running number) distinguish the vehicle as a post-war build. Hence: ...the Hornby BSK (and not the upcoming Bachmann Porthole) will be a close but not identical match. Alun Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wheatley Posted June 29, 2014 Share Posted June 29, 2014 We appear to be talking about two different coaches. I was referring to the one in the OP's photo, not 26585. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mark54 Posted June 29, 2014 Share Posted June 29, 2014 I think you're getting confused. 26585 has got a toilet at the end vestibule. That (and the running number) distinguish the vehicle as a post-war build. Then why did you quote Wheatley who was referring to the original photo? Mark Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
YK 50A Posted June 29, 2014 Share Posted June 29, 2014 Then why did you quote Wheatley who was referring to the original photo? Mark If you read the thread from the start as opposed to starting two thirds of the way through, it makes perfect sense. Play nicely! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mark54 Posted June 29, 2014 Share Posted June 29, 2014 If you read the thread from the start as opposed to starting two thirds of the way through, it makes perfect sense. Play nicely! I'm sorry Alun, you have lost me. I still don't understand why you quoted Wheatley who was responding to my earlier post. There is no mention of a post-war vehicle. Mark Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
YK 50A Posted June 29, 2014 Share Posted June 29, 2014 I'm sorry Alun, you have lost me. I still don't understand why you quoted Wheatley who was responding to my earlier post. There is no mention of a post-war vehicle. You missed these two comments then: Prior to services being dieselised, mostly post-war LMS designed stock was transferred from the ScR to the MR and the WR. I have found this photograph of a post-war built, W prefixed, M suffixed, maroon Stanier BSK: https://flic.kr/p/6pKJQ2. As Wheatley subsequently wrote: We appear to be talking about two different coaches. I was referring to the one in the OP's photo, not 26585. Alun Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
coachmann Posted June 29, 2014 Share Posted June 29, 2014 Just come across this thread and Mark54 has it! LMS origin and looks for all the world like an early D1851/1852 corridor brake third with the centrally position toilet. But those water filler pipes mark it out as the experimental D1971 built as part of the 'Coronation Scot' evaluation. The toiler filler pipes ran from the brake end on this unique coach. Other differences were centrally trussed underframe and inverted 'V' alarm apparatus on the end, although this feature was on some later D1968 brake thirds and some postwar-built coaches. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mark54 Posted June 30, 2014 Share Posted June 30, 2014 You missed these two comments then: Alun, but you still haven't answered why you quoted Wheatley in your post #12? Maybe we should just leave it there! Mark Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mark54 Posted June 30, 2014 Share Posted June 30, 2014 Just come across this thread and Mark54 has it! LMS origin and looks for all the world like an early D1851/1852 corridor brake third with the centrally position toilet. But those water filler pipes mark it out as the experimental D1971 built as part of the 'Coronation Scot' evaluation. The toiler filler pipes ran from the brake end on this unique coach. Other differences were centrally trussed underframe and inverted 'V' alarm apparatus on the end, although this feature was on some later D1968 brake thirds and some postwar-built coaches. Thanks Coach, for confirming it. I assume that the alarm gear must have been modified by the time of the photo. Mark Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
YK 50A Posted June 30, 2014 Share Posted June 30, 2014 Alun, but you still haven't answered why you quoted Wheatley in your post #12? Maybe we should just leave it there! I have already written (as has Wheatley) that we were talking about 2 different vehicles. You quoted my post talking about one of them, but I was referring to the other. Anyway, an interesting vehicle to be transferred. By the time of the merry-go-round, pre-war vehicles were being withdrawn en masse, and like I wrote above, most of those transferred from the ScR were post-war. I wonder if this one was making up for a temporary shortage? Alun Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
coachmann Posted June 30, 2014 Share Posted June 30, 2014 The coaches built specially for the pre-war prestige trains were something of an embarrassment in postwar Britain, as their often 2-a-side seating did not fit in with regular seating/traffic patterns. If any coaches were going to be 'spare' it was these, hence their transfer to areas needing coaches. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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