Athearn Genesis HO GP38-2 Rescue

[Parthia27]

I mentioned in a post the other day that I have picked up a worse for wear HO Athearn Genesis GP38-2 off eBay for an incredibly low price. It was listed with broken handrails, a missing cab window and a grill missing from the Dynamic Brake Fan. I have had a Proto 2000 GP38-2 languishing in the loft for a while with suitable parts to detail it to an acceptable standard, but as I have learnt more about the prototype during my recent layup I have started to question the suitability of this model, which to my eyes just doesn't look right dimensionally. The Genesis model is a much better starting point.

 

For the last 3 or 4 years I have not done much other than simple resprays, maintenance rebuilds, re-wheeling and airbrush weathering. It will make a nice change to go one step further and do something similar to the old 'Blue Box Bashes' I used to do.

 

My plan is to rebuild the model I have into BNSF GP38-2 #2097 as shown below:-

 

http://www.rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?id=1263463

http://www.rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?id=2461714

http://www.rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?id=2369315

 

BNSF (formerly BN) #2097 is a long term member the GP roster in and around Seattle and is an ideal candidate to add to my fleet.

 

Over the last few nights I have disassembled the model, saving all the parts I intent to reuse, soaked the model in isopropyl alcohol and given it a scrub with an old toothbrush to get as much paint off as possible.

 

The work so far so has lead to this:

 

 

I'm not too worried about the staining left from the old BN livery as my intention is to apply a grey undercoat which will hide any discolouration.

 

In addition to stripping the paint I have so far removed the front anti-climber and pilot detail. Over the next few nights I will be removing the plastic steps and factory fitted DB and radiator fans. These together with the cab, cab sub-base, nose and blower housing will be replaced with Cannon and Co etched and plastic parts which are on order from the US.

 

I intend to faithfully detail paint and weather the model in accordance with the prototype pictures I have collected from the internet, including replicating a fully detailed fuel tank, under frame and body using an assortment of Details West, Detail Associates, Precision Scale and A Line and other parts. The stanchions will be replaced with Precision in Scale parts, and I will be installing hand formed brass wire handrails. In addition the model will be upgraded with NWSL Code 88 wheels, Sergeant Couplers, ditch-lights, DCC sound and LED lighting.

 

As you can see there will be a lot of work to do, but I'm really looking forward to this project to see how far I can take it. I'm not sure I can emulate some of the work I have seen on here and other forums, but I have achieved reasonable results when reworking 4mm UK diesels and before that a number of Athearn Blue Box locomotives.

 

In the wings I have an Athearn RTR SD40-2, and a Kato GP35 (to be rebuilt into a GP39M) which will be having similar treatment in due douse if all goes well. I also have an Athearn Genesis BNSF GP50 with DCC sound which other than upgrading with Code 88 NWSL wheels, Sergeant Couplers, LED lighting and some minor detailing and weathering is good to go (this model is a beautiful rendition of the prototype and leaves little for the modeller to do). I have also discovered a Trainman GP39-2 Phase 2 BN model which may be a candidate for future rework, but by the time I get to this I am sure that Athearn will have released a model of this loco in their Genesis line. These models will form the core of the Seattle BNSF motive power fleet I will be using on my BNSF Shed layout.

 

I will try to post regular updates when I have progress to show, but this project will be happening at the same time as I am building and fitting out my new shed and building a couple of Freemo modules to put in it, so lease be patient.

 

TTFN

 

Chris

[w124bob]

Just out of interest, what did you use to strip the paint?

[lightengine]

Quote from #1

Over the last few nights I have disassembled the model, saving all the parts I intent to reuse, soaked the model in isopropyl alcohol and given it a scrub with an old toothbrush to get as much paint off as possible.

[Parthia27]

Just out of interest, what did you use to strip the paint?

 

Hi, as the op commented, I use isopropyl alcohol. To elaborate further I use either 91 or 99% isopropyl alcohol (IPA) and soak the model for at least 24 - 36 hours before taking an old toothbrush to the model and scrubbing the paint off whilst still submerged in the alcohol. Sometimes a model needs to have several soakings, Kato locomotives and some Atlas freight cars fall into this category in my experience but be patient and the paint will come off. Also please ensure that you wear rubber gloves and use a respirator when using IPA, it can be nasty. Also use soapy water to give the model a good wash before applying undercoat or paint. In the UK I buy my IPA from one of a number of eBay vendors who sell it on line usually in 5 litre bottles.

 

HTH

 

Chris

[warbonnetuk]

Looking toward to watching this progress

 

Dan

[Parthia27]

Looking toward to watching this progress

 

Dan

Hi Dan,

 

If I come even close to what I saw displayed from you on the RPM table at the Freemo extravaganza earlier this year I will be happy.

 

Cheers

 

Chris 

[Andy Reichert]

SNIP

 

I intend to faithfully detail paint and weather the model in accordance with the prototype pictures I have collected from the internet, including replicating a fully detailed fuel tank, under frame and body using an assortment of Details West, Detail Associates, Precision Scale and A Line and other parts. The stanchions will be replaced with Precision in Scale parts, and I will be installing hand formed brass wire handrails. In addition the model will be upgraded with NWSL Code 88 wheels, Sergeant Couplers, ditch-lights, DCC sound and LED lighting.

 

SNIP

 

These models will form the core of the Seattle BNSF motive power fleet I will be using on my BNSF Shed / Freemo layout.

 

 

I know the MR magazines and advertisers are having a sales field day with this.

 

But, unless it's for static display, Installing HO Fine code 88 wheels is a operating downgrade. If you just want it to look prototypical and static, then I would suggest putting Proto:87 wheels on them. I think the cost is the same.

 

I thought Freemo required stock and track to be compliant with the Regular NMRA standards. Using HO FIne isn't being compliant. I can build any number of NMRA compliant  Freemo modules that would dump code 88 wheeled locomotives straight onto the floor.

 

Andy.

[Parthia27]

Hi Andy,

The GP38-2 will be running on ME Code 70 and 83 track for the most part. Unless our fledgling Midlands Freemo group decide otherwise, I expect the Freemo part of my shed layout will be built to the latest RS Tower / BR NMRA standards which, when I last looked, specifies Peco Code 83 track or equivalent. Code 88 wheels run perfectly on both ME and Peco Code 83 track and ME Code 70 track.

 

Also, all the locos and stock I run at home are very detailed and are unsuitable for frequent handling. Additionally I exclusively use Sergeant Couplers which are not compatible with the Kadee Couplers used by all the Freemo modellers I have met in the UK.

 

All of the above said, it happens that the issue of wheels at Freemo meets is irrelevant. I have created a separate small pool of 2 locos and 10 freight cars which retain their factory fitted Code 110 Wheels and are all fitted with Kadee 158 Whisker Couplers for Freemo use. Some of these locos and cars have received basic detailing and weathering, but they are robust enough to withstand repeated handling and regular transport. I like this arrangement as both of the locomotives are 'leasers' and the freight cars are from a variety of roads all different from my usual BN / BNSF theme.

Cheers

Chris

[Andy Reichert]

Hi Andy,

 

The GP38-2 will be running on ME Code 70 and 83 track for the most part. Unless our fledgling Midlands Freemo group decide otherwise, I expect the Freemo part of my shed layout will be built to the latest RS Tower / BR NMRA standards which, when I last looked, specifies Peco Code 83 track or equivalent. Code 88 wheels run perfectly on both ME and Peco Code 83 track and ME Code 70 track.

 

Also, all the locos and stock I run at home are very detailed and are unsuitable for frequent handling. Additionally I exclusively use Sergeant Couplers which are not compatible with the Kadee Couplers used by all the Freemo modellers I have met in the UK.

 

All of the above said, it happens that the issue of wheels at Freemo meets is irrelevant. I have created a separate small pool of 2 locos and 10 freight cars which retain their factory fitted Code 110 Wheels and are all fitted with Kadee 158 Whisker Couplers for Freemo use. Some of these locos and cars have received basic detailing and weathering, but they are robust enough to withstand repeated handling and regular transport. I like this arrangement as both of the locomotives are 'leasers' and the freight cars are from a variety of roads all different from my usual BN / BNSF theme.

Cheers

 

Chris

 

I just checked the BR NMRA module spec. It doesn't require any rolling stock standards whatsoever,  while it does (SP9) specify "the appropriate NMRA standard" for frog flange ways, etc. (and SPECIFIES any code 83 rail track, rather than PECO code 83 track, which is merely suggested. So the standard needs fixing, as it clearly allows some modules to be to be to NMRA Proto:87 track standards,  for example, while still running stock allowed to have any wheel types whatsoever. . . . . 

 

Note Code 83 wheels can only run perfectly for 88% of the way from the frog to the frog vee point, as the wheel is only supported by the wing rail through that distance. The NMRA track spec has 0.050" allowed as the maximum frog flangeway width and thus the flangeway width from the frog throat starts at 0.050" there, increasing steadily to 0.100" (two flangeway widths) at the vee. Which means that a code 88 wheel is riding on thin air for at least the last 12% of that gap. Whether, and how much, the wheel can then drop downward, before imperfectly hitting/bumping the vee point, depends on the form of suspension of the wheel on the model vehicle, the wheel diameter, and what, if any,support there is for the wheel flange tip at the base of the flange ways. It also of course depend on the frog angle - the shallower the angle, the longer the unsupported gap.

 

Note none of the above is an opinion, just the inevitability of basic arithmetic. I.e.  The hole is bigger than the manhole cover . . . . . . No amount of opinions in the world changes the actuality or impact of that.

 

The noticeable effects differ according the subjective expectations and assessment of the individual model railroader, and the speed of the model trains involved . Some believe that real trains bump on frog vees and so assume that any mild bumping is prototypical and normal. Only those who experience derailments or vibrations beyond their expectations, and in the same places,  check or suspect their track, mostly because that's the area the magazines always suggest is not up to the NMRA standards. But the facts are that the wheels are too narrow regardless.

 

The damning factor of course is asking that, if slightly too narrow wheels running on air is OK for a small part of the time, then what smaller wheel width is at the point at which this "perfect" operation becomes actually unacceptable?

 

Andy

[Prof Klyzlr]

Dear Andy,

 

 

 

then what smaller wheel width is at the point at which this "perfect" operation becomes actually unacceptable?

 

A: when the derailments/coming-off-the-rails are soo reproducible and frequent that the tolerance-level of the modeller involved is exhausted.

 

IE Until:

- every loco and car
- falls off first-time-every-time
(Direction of travel is a debatable variable)

 

then a modeller will persevere, most likely default-assuming any problem-situation is "the track's fault".
(IE not making a connection between the mis-matched track/wheel config).

 

As has been said in varius situations:
"...the difference between theory and practise/human-experience is,
in theory, there is no difference,
and in practise/human-experience, there apparently is..."

 

Happy Modelling,
Aim to Improve,
Prof Klyzlr

[Parthia27]

Hi Andy,

 

I can't argue with facts and my "inner engineer" agrees with you 100%.

 

My recent life experience though has lead to a taming of my former no compromise approach to life.

 

Code 88 wheels are far from perfect but it is a fact that they do look better to my eyes and when fitted to locos and cars run flawlessly if care is taken to ensure the car is set up correctly to run through well laid permanent way. My only area of concern is wrt six axle locos where if the factory supplied bogie is not absolutely square the assembly pivots on the center axle. In this case Code 88 wheels lack the flange depth of Code 110 Wheels to ensure the wheels remain in between the two rails. This is also true in Proto 87 and P4. There are some compromises that can be implemented to get around this problem but I will simply retrofit the Code 110 Wheels and retain the loco for RPM use.

 

Anyway could we please try to put this post back in line with the original subject rather than make it into a debate about NMRA wheel standards which I am sure could be discussed on another thread.

 

Cheers

 

 

Chris

[Parthia27]

Hi Andy,

 

I can't argue with facts and my "inner engineer" agrees with you 100%.

 

My recent life experience though has lead to a taming of my former no compromise approach to life.

 

Code 88 wheels are far from perfect but it is a fact that they do look better to my eyes and when fitted to locos and cars run flawlessly if care is taken to ensure the car is set up correctly to run through well laid permanent way. My only area of concern is wrt six axle locos where if the factory supplied bogie is not absolutely square the assembly pivots on the center axle. In this case Code 88 wheels lack the flange depth of Code 110 Wheels to ensure the wheels remain in between the two rails. This is also true in Proto 87 and P4. There are some compromises that can be implemented to get around this problem but I will simply retrofit the Code 110 Wheels and retain the loco for RPM use.

 

Anyway could we please try to put this post back in line with the original subject rather than make it into a debate about NMRA wheel standards which I am sure could be discussed on another thread.

 

Cheers

 

 

Chris

Not much has happened since my last update, I'm awaiting the arrival of a new nose, cab and fans from Cannon before I crack on. The shed has also been taking up a lot of my time, but in a week or so things should see me getting back into a routine. More updates then :-).

 

Cheers

 

Chris

[Parthia27]

Quick update, I've decided to change the prototype GP38-2 I'm modelling from BNSF 2097 to BNSF 2084 as I've been finding it hard to locate a supplier for the type of anti-climber fitted to 2097. Also 2084 will allow me to represent an ex BN 'White Face' loco which will be nice. So here are some pictures of 2084 from 2011-2012 which are perfect for the period I'm modelling the loco at: 

 

http://www.rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?id=2736557

http://www.rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?id=2449768

http://www.rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?id=2867570

 

Progress has been slow, I returned to work this week so I've been tired and my modelling time has been limited, but so far I've:

• replaced the roof lift rings;
• repaired two bad scratches on the long hood using squadron filler;
• replaced and relocated the exhaust ports on the dynamic brake blister in line with the prototype;
• repaired the holes left following the exhaust relocation and finally;
• replaced the db fan with the Canon equivalent.

This afternoon I'm going to mount the air horn on the db and open out the holes in the long hood for the radiator fans. If I get time I'll fit the new radiator fans, a new traction motor blower housing and new anti-climber. All of these are from Canon and Co. When this is done I need to give the whole long hood a dusting of Halford's primer. I'll post some photos when this is all complete.

 

Cheers

 

Chris