2 digit v 4 digit address. How do I set a default to work on both?

[gordon s]

I have an NCE Powercab system which works on four digit addresses.  I've decided to sell several DCC loco's and to keep things simple (or so I thought!) I've been programming loco's for sale with the four digit address 0003.

 

Fine, but I am now getting questions from buyers who have simple DCC systems that will only work with DCC addresses of two digits or even just 1-20.  It would appear these systems cannot read the number 0003 that I have programmed in before sale.

 

Is there a foolproof address that I can set up using my NCE Powercab that can be read with any DCC system?

 

This is a new one on me and something I hadn't anticipated.

 

More to the point, can you reprogramme a four digit address on a simple DCC system that will only read 1-20?

 

I'm not even sure if these systems allow you programme an address.  

 

Is there an easy fix I can recommend these buyers?

 

Any guidance would be appreciated.

 

[gordon s]

OK, I've now heard the seller is using a Hornby Select R8213 and will download the manual.

 

Thanks for your reply DM.  Apologies if I have misunderstood, but I guess you are referring to my Powercab and programming the loco before sale.

 

If I do what you suggest, will this then give a problem to those using a four digit address?  

[johnb]

If I am disposing of a DCC item I always set the address to the SHORT address 3 which is easily done with the NCE Powercab. See the instructions on page 2 of the manual. Or if I have the instructions for the chip being used I reset the chip to the factory default which is usually (but not always!) done by entering 2 into CV8. That will always set the address to short 3 as well as sorting out any other changes that you may have made.

 

Short address 3 can be read by any DCC system. I use both short and long addressed locos on my system at the same time and just work as normal. A short addressed loco I enter the number only. If I use a four digit addressedloco with  number under 99 then I have to enter the number with a leading 0

 

The Powercab also has a facility to reset the chip directly to it's factory settings, see the Recovery Mode paragraph, it's on page 54 of my manual.

 

Some controllers can only read 1 -20 and have NO WAY of reading or reprogramming a 4 digit address.

 

The only way your buyers can get things sorted is to find some one with a 4 digit capable system and get them to reset the number to short address 3

 

Also the NCE system automatically sorts out CV29 for you if you follow the programming section instructions.

 

Hope that helps

 

John

[gordon s]

Thanks John, that's very helpful.  I am fairly au fait with the Powercab and will now take the short address option rather than setting the long address each time.  I hadn't appreciated that 'simple systems' would not be able to read 0003.  I thought they would just see that as 3 and all would be fine.

[johnb]

Thanks John, that's very helpful.  I am fairly au fait with the Powercab and will now take the short address option rather than setting the long address each time.  I hadn't appreciated that 'simple systems' would not be able to read 0003.  I thought they would just see that as 3 and all would be fine.

 

You are into 'computer speak' here. Real people see 3, 03, 003, 0003 as the same thing, a simple 'three'. Computers, (which is essentially what DCC is) unless programmed to ignore leading zeros, don't. They see the leading zeros as a 'something', hence why 'simple systems' see 0003 as different from a plain 3.

 

Just part of life's rich texture, which does pong a bit at times

 

regards

 

John

[Sunnysa]

Surely even simple systems that can program addresses will program a 2 digit address over what is already in the decoder.

 

 A decoder is a dumb little animal that only does what it is told and obeys the last command.

 

 A decoder address does not need to be read before programing an address, just program new address and away you go.

 

 It is like the old video tapes, just record/program over the top of what is already there.

 

 I could be wrong but, I think NCE is the only system that can put zero's in front of number to create 4 digit address EG 3 is single address 0003 is 4 digit address etc,. Which, IMHO,  can be confusing to some people.

 

 Cheers

 

  Ian

[gordon s]

Anyone got a basic Hornby Select who would care to try?  It would be good to get a definitive answer as to whether or not a simple DCC controller with basic capability will reprogramme a 4 digit address to a simple 1, 2 or 3 etc.

 

You're right about the confusion, Ian…:-)

[SRman]

I agree with what has already been said. However, with the Power Cab, there is also a sort of 'wizard' interface that will lead you through setting/resetting the address without ever having to know the CVs involved.

 

When you use the programming track, choose option 1=STD which will then lead you through setting and activating short or long addresses.

 

NCE allow a leading 0 to indicate a long address, so anything in the range 1 -127 is a short address, whereas 01 - 0127 is a long address, thereby increasing the number of available addresses by 127! 

 

As an aside, NCE does not allow address 0, unlike some other systems.

 

The usual default for any decoder when you buy it is 3 (short), so that is a good address to choose if you are selling the loco/unit.

[daveymills]

Surely even simple systems that can program addresses will program a 2 digit address over what is already in the decoder.

 

 A decoder is a dumb little animal that only does what it is told and obeys the last command.

 

 A decoder address does not need to be read before programing an address, just program new address and away you go.

 

 It is like the old video tapes, just record/program over the top of what is already there.

 

 I could be wrong but, I think NCE is the only system that can put zero's in front of number to create 4 digit address EG 3 is single address 0003 is 4 digit address etc,. Which, IMHO,  can be confusing to some people.

 

 Cheers

 

  Ian

 

Indeed - I programmed a loco with the 4-digit address 0032 using my NCE powercab. 

 

Now my layout is using the Digitrax Zephyr Xtra and I cannot select 0032, I can only select 32 but this is the not the same !

 

I thought (as advised earlier in this thread) to simply just assign a new 4-digit address.

 

However on my programming track I dont seem to be able to do it.....

 

Any ideas ?

 

thanks

Dave

[scoomby]

Anyone got a basic Hornby Select who would care to try?  It would be good to get a definitive answer as to whether or not a simple DCC controller with basic capability will reprogramme a 4 digit address to a simple 1, 2 or 3 etc.

 

You're right about the confusion, Ian…:-)

 

Hi Gordon

I have the Hornby Elite and Select.  I can try setting one of my locos to address 3 using my Elite and then see if the Select can control it if you like?

Regards

Steve

[Crosland]

Anyone got a basic Hornby Select who would care to try?  It would be good to get a definitive answer as to whether or not a simple DCC controller with basic capability will reprogramme a 4 digit address to a simple 1, 2 or 3 etc.

 

You're right about the confusion, Ian…:-)

 

The Bachmann EZ Command will do it. Many of these simple systems cannot read back anyway, they just program blind.

 

Any system should be capable of programming any address within it's own limitations, regardless of what the decoder is currently set to. Otherwise it is not fit for purpose.

 

Andrew

Edited August 28, 2014 by Crosland

[Nigelcliffe]

Hi Gordon

I have the Hornby Elite and Select.  I can try setting one of my locos to address 3 using my Elite and then see if the Select can control it if you like?

Regards

Steve

That's not quite what was being asked. Instead, set a loco address to 1234 on the Elite and see if the Select can reprogram it.

 

Alternatively, manually work out the values of CV17 and CV18 for long address 0003 (CV17=192, CV18=3), and manually set CV29 to long address (CV29=38), then see if the Select can reprogram it to some other values. 

 

As Andrew says above, if a system can't re-program a loco to an address it can use, the system is not fit for purpose.

 

 

 

Indeed - I programmed a loco with the 4-digit address 0032 using my NCE powercab. 

 

Now my layout is using the Digitrax Zephyr Xtra and I cannot select 0032, I can only select 32 but this is the not the same !

 

I thought (as advised earlier in this thread) to simply just assign a new 4-digit address.

 

However on my programming track I dont seem to be able to do it.....

 

Any ideas ?

 

thanks

Dave

 

The behaviour you are seeing is completely correct.  The Zephyr supports short addresses 1-127 and long addresses 128-9983.   If you give a loco a long address of 0032, then it's not within the supported range of addresses.  

 

You should be able to just set Short ("Ad2") or Long ( "Ad4") with the Zephyr on the programming track (though I wouldn't be surprised if it couldn't read the long address of 0032).  So, if setting Long (AD4) you can use an address between 128 and 9983. If its not working, then try to set the relevant CV's manually (need to calculate CV17,CV18 and CV29), but this should not be necessary.

 

If the problem is a decoder which draws too much current when being programmed on the programming track, investigate "blast" mode of the Zephyr. Blast mode is mentioned in the Zephyr Xtra manual, and there are instructions on the internet for Zephyr Xtra and original Zephyr. Read the instructions very carefully before using Blast mode.

[daveymills]

Thanks Nigel

 

Yes I was aware of the nuances between the Digitrax and NCE systems with regards to what is supported for 2- and 4-digit addresses.

 

The decoder is an ESU v3.5 Loksound (fitted to a Heljan Class 40).  As you thought, I am not even able to read the long addres of 0032 (or even the short address for that matter).

 

I will though try to assign the CV17,CV18 and CV29 values manually.

 

Plan B would be try the Blast mode programming.

 

regards

Dave

[TheWeatheringMan]

The Bachmann EZ Command will do it. Many of these simple systems cannot read back anyway, they just program blind.

 

Any system should be capable of programming any address within it's own limitations, regardless of what the decoder is currently set to. Otherwise it is not fot for purpose.

 

Andrew

Hi,

There is a perfectly simple way to sort out ALL issues with decoder programing.

Buy a 'Sprog' and then you can see on a computer screen EXACTLY whats going on !!.

 

No connection with Andrew at SprogDCC except as a totally satisfied user of his product and Customer Service.

 

Regards

[Glorious NSE]

Why not just do a factory reset on the chip, which should put it back to 3 by default?

[shibushe]

Yes. Just like that. Factory Reset to Default 3. Let the buyer decide how they set up the Loco.

[scoomby]

Can you do a factory reset on the Select?

[SRman]

Thanks Nigel

 

Yes I was aware of the nuances between the Digitrax and NCE systems with regards to what is supported for 2- and 4-digit addresses.

 

The decoder is an ESU v3.5 Loksound (fitted to a Heljan Class 40).  As you thought, I am not even able to read the long addres of 0032 (or even the short address for that matter).

 

I will though try to assign the CV17,CV18 and CV29 values manually.

 

Plan B would be try the Blast mode programming.

 

regards

Dave

 

 

Sound decoders can be a little tricky sometimes. That's where the NCE Power Cab has an advantage, in that it has a little more programming track power so will mostly reprogram sound decoders with no problems, where others (including the NCE Power Pro system) don't quite have enough "oomph" to succeed. Blast mode on the Zephyr may well overcome this too. NCE tacitly support 'improving' the programming track output on their Power Pro system with a documented modification on their website - I'm not sure where this leaves their warranty, though.

 

On one occasion, even with a Power Cab, I could not get an ESU LokSound to accept any reprogramming. Something in the combination of sound decoder and circuitry on the vehicle concerned was causing the problem. I temporarily swapped the decoder into a Hornby class 60 and it then accepted the reprogramming with no further problems. Once done, I swapped it back and all was well.

 

Going back on topic, as others have already said, all systems should be able to program a decoder address, even without the readback facility. The exception may well be a slightly recalcitrant LokSound decoder!

[Sunnysa]

Good grief, this topic is going round in more circles than the Olympic rings.

 

 If selling a decoder fitted loco just program it to address 3, not 03 or 003 or 0003 just 3 and all will be tikity boo.

 

 Or,  as has been said, do a factory reset on it then the new owner can do what he/she requires to the limit of their system.

 

For those that may not realize, the Hornby select ( as far as I know) can only program/run 1 or 2 digit address's.IE 1-99.

 

 Early Bachmqn EZ system could only program/run single digit address. IE 1 to 9.

 

 The Bachman Dynamis can program/run up to 4 digit address but not read back CVs unless the extra pro box is attached.

 

 The bottom line is,  as has been said,  no matter the system, if it won't program an address over what is already in decoder then it is not fit for purpose.

 

 Scrap it.

 

BTW, I have ECoS and Lenz sytems which both have no problems programing ESU Loksound decoders without any extra add ons etc,.

Cheers

 

  Ian

[RAF96]

The Select can only program addresses 1-59 in for locos and 60-99 for accessories.

It cannot reset a decoder to factory settings.

It should be able to program any address back to 3 for the purpose of a sale.

Rob