RMweb Premium Barry O Posted October 16, 2014 RMweb Premium Share Posted October 16, 2014 After some recent events with regard to road signs for our show in Leeds can I pass on our experience just in case you have the same problems. We have always written to the council for clearance in putting up road signs. Until this year the specification is yellow background, black lettering signs are OK so long as they are NOT fitted to road signs but OK for lampposts. In addition we have to make sure they come down on the day at the end of the event. So far so good. This year our council have referred us to the company providing PFI street lighting - in our case SSE. They have told us: the signs must be metal or polycarbonate cannot be "tie wrapped" to lampposts need to be manufactured and fitted by a local contractor.....quote for this £50 per sign.. If they find any signs attached to "their" lampposts legal action will be taken.. so check your council/PFI contractor and be prepared for a shock! Baz Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jwealleans Posted October 16, 2014 Share Posted October 16, 2014 We had a similarly daft scenario a few years ago... Something like South Cambs said they were OK, but Cambs County then sent a bloke to take them all down. So we spoke to local farmers and now attach them to their fences. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Mike Bellamy Posted October 16, 2014 RMweb Premium Share Posted October 16, 2014 Lost five a few years ago - turns out that part of the ring road is under the control of the Highways Agency and not the local authority - I guess it was just our very bad luck that they must have been doing some sort of inspection that weekend. After our show two years ago I was returning the hire van to the depot and to collect my car - then collect signs on my way home. Trouble is that I saw a council employee with a couple of signs under his arm as I drove past - must just have been very unlucky (again!) as you see other signs that have been up for months. I need to survey our new location and sort out where the signs can go - at least Pride Park, the Roundhouse and the Station are already well signed and so I guess our directional signs will just be at each junction as you get that bit closer. After seeing Baz's note about legal action, perhaps I should change my user name . . . . . . . . . Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
'CHARD Posted October 16, 2014 Share Posted October 16, 2014 Why in the name of (insert name of deity or false prophet here) are we confronted with money-grubbing jobsworth cockroaches whenever we so much as raise a cheek to let one go? I must not look at his thread again for fear of blood-pressure-threatening rage. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold chris p bacon Posted October 16, 2014 RMweb Gold Share Posted October 16, 2014 Just put them next to a "Happy Birthday [insert name here] poster" and they'll be left there for months. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonhall Posted October 16, 2014 Share Posted October 16, 2014 We can only use an approved contractor (AA/RAC etc) as we are close to a border we have two local councils rules, In Royal Boro of Kingston we can have 'model railway show 9th November' but over the border in Elmbridge we can only have the name of the venue but no clue to the event 'Tolworth Recreation Centre' I slightly see the point if they are going to clampdown on the number of 'scrap cars call....' , 'discount sofas....' Mini digger with driver...' type signs. Jon Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
arran Posted October 16, 2014 Share Posted October 16, 2014 HI All We dont get any problems in ST Andrews but they always come down the day after the show at the latest , the only problem is with the banner but i put that one up myself and be damned, as i had a huge argument with them over that years ago with stuff in the local papers about it, But we do have to watch now as we are in the town hall so i may have to play ball, You can advertise on private ground so long as it temporary as well we do that with a big roadside sign 3 weeks before the show but yet again get it down very soon after and there will be no bother. Regards Arran Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Steve Hewitt Posted October 16, 2014 RMweb Gold Share Posted October 16, 2014 Blackburn & East Lancs MRS has had an excellent working relationship with the Lancs County Council's local "Lighting" man, who lets us use his lamposts. We normally put up about 70 Yellow/Black direction signs on the Sunday prior to our Exhibition, and remove them within a couple of days of closing. These direct road users from where any main road crosses into the Borough right to the venue. Long may this continue............ We often receive compliments from our visitors, but one year one person complained - the signs didn't direct him back home again! Steve. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
enginelane Posted October 16, 2014 Share Posted October 16, 2014 Blackburn & East Lancs MRS has had an excellent working relationship with the Lancs County Council's local "Lighting" man, who lets us use his lamposts. We normally put up about 70 Yellow/Black direction signs on the Sunday prior to our Exhibition, and remove them within a couple of days of closing. These direct road users from where any main road crosses into the Borough right to the venue. Long may this continue............ We often receive compliments from our visitors, but one year one person complained - the signs didn't direct him back home again! Steve. Why would they want to go back home once they have been to Blackburn / Accrington? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Barry O Posted October 17, 2014 Author RMweb Premium Share Posted October 17, 2014 Blackburn & East Lancs MRS has had an excellent working relationship with the Lancs County Council's local "Lighting" man, Steve we had the same here in Leeds but now its a PFI its just all too difficult for the contractor who obviously needs additional revenue streams... Baz Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
gr.king Posted October 17, 2014 Share Posted October 17, 2014 So does this particular problem, or something else entirely, account for the total lack of event signs that resulted in me firstly driving past the not-very-obvious turning off the main road, then past the un-signed vehicle entrance when trying to get to the centre hosting ExpoEM North in September? Even when I realised how to get into the correct car park, then guessed which way to go, walked up to the very plain main entrance to the building and went within to the main desk there was still NOTHING that I could see to announce or confirm that there was a model railway show. Is it supposed to be a stealth event? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
stewartingram Posted October 17, 2014 Share Posted October 17, 2014 So does this particular problem, or something else entirely, account for the total lack of event signs that resulted in me firstly driving past the not-very-obvious turning off the main road, then past the un-signed vehicle entrance when trying to get to the centre hosting ExpoEM North in September? Even when I realised how to get into the correct car park, then guessed which way to go, walked up to the very plain main entrance to the building and went within to the main desk there was still NOTHING that I could see to announce or confirm that there was a model railway show. Is it supposed to be a stealth event? Well it is EM - don't people have to wear dark glasses when attending in case they get recognised? Stewart Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graham Walters Posted October 17, 2014 Share Posted October 17, 2014 Simply do what we do, get your signs fixed to some site pegs ( Jewsons), then stick them in the ground, then they don't have to conform or be attached to any object that may or may not be owned by some jobs worth in some company. In a way I can see their point, we already get information overload on the roads and streets, and if they didn't have some sort of control then the lamposts, diversion signs etc would soon become covered in them. What I struggle to comprehend is how companies like Barrat and Bloor Homes seem to get away with it all the time. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold chris p bacon Posted October 17, 2014 RMweb Gold Share Posted October 17, 2014 What I struggle to comprehend is how companies like Barrat and Bloor Homes seem to get away with it all the time. They pay for them. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Mike Bellamy Posted October 17, 2014 RMweb Premium Share Posted October 17, 2014 Simply do what we do, get your signs fixed to some site pegs ( Jewsons), then stick them in the ground, then they don't have to conform or be attached to any object that may or may not be owned by some jobs worth in some company. Sorry that's not always the case - some signs stuck in the grass verge do get removed if it's classed as 'Highways' land - and of course if it's private land then the land owner has the right to remove them. . Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lmsforever Posted October 17, 2014 Share Posted October 17, 2014 For the second Railex I was able to persuade the council to let the AA put up signs only problem they took cars straight into the centre of Aylesbury fine but no entrance to car parks oh yes the council let us put up a banner in front of the court buildings so they were a great help to us. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geoff Endacott Posted October 17, 2014 Share Posted October 17, 2014 We don't need to put up signs. They just seem to mysteriously appear before each of our exhibitions and disappear again just after they close. Of course, I have absolutely no idea how this happens... Geoff Endacott Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
enginelane Posted October 18, 2014 Share Posted October 18, 2014 Yes but you have the advantage of tapping into the mysterious forces of the land - unleashed by numerous TimeTeam digs Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dasatcopthorne Posted October 18, 2014 Share Posted October 18, 2014 We don't need to put up signs. They just seem to mysteriously appear before each of our exhibitions and disappear again just after they close. Of course, I have absolutely no idea how this happens... Geoff Endacott Where?? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
fulton Posted October 20, 2014 Share Posted October 20, 2014 Fortunately for the Chatham Model Railway Show we only have to deal with Medway Council as it is a unity authority, I put them up around 3am as this is the only safe time practically by Medway Tunnel, they come down as the last job on our way back to drop of the hire van. It can all change and signs could become another one of those additional charges, we have so many already! that could in the long term spell the end of amateur run shows. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
LNWR lives on Posted October 20, 2014 Share Posted October 20, 2014 Highways Agency wise nothing should be on their land as they are a neutral organisation, anything, especially political is also removed if stuck onto their land though there is little they can do about farmers making a quick buck by allowing a hoarding 5 foot into the field. Services signs are the closest they get to 'advertising' as they are required so that drivers hopefully take regular breaks etc The Highways Agency also patrol all road under their control daily via the area contractors. Police and HATO's also call in issues for the contractors to sort where possible, never mind what comes in via the public HAIL line, so don't put anything on highways agency land as it will be spotted within 24 hours maximum. What gets done about it however........ With the advent of passive columns they have not been designed and as such crash tested with signage attached which is why the PFI contracts get itchy about anything more than a homes sign or speed limit sign being attached. Same applies to passive roadsigns, if you stick something else onto an existing unit it could overload the posts, hence why requests for additional signing on existing posts needs calculations doing first to see if their is enough spare capacity For anyone bashing anything in the ground please be careful as STATS companies SHOULD bury there cables etc deeply but............... Found a UKPN 440V cable at 50mm once, thank god for HSG47. And no don't ask me what I do for a living......... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grovenor Posted October 20, 2014 Share Posted October 20, 2014 Well, if a little yellow sign such as usually put up for shows is going to overload a pole, heaven help the passing pedestrian who leans on it! Keith Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
LNWR lives on Posted October 20, 2014 Share Posted October 20, 2014 Well, if a little yellow sign such as usually put up for shows is going to overload a pole, heaven help the passing pedestrian who leans on it! Keith Pedestrians you can do nowt about. The trouble lies in liability. As the column is designed and tested to a standard, it must be put up as such to comply. Sticking a 300 dia sign on is the unofficial agreed limit. Anything bigger is deemed not to comply with the regs and as such if it got wiped out by an errant vehicle etc the relevant insurance company would have fun Sadly its the society we live in these days. Where there's is blame there's a claim. I don't make the rules, just work within them......... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Butler Henderson Posted October 20, 2014 Share Posted October 20, 2014 Theres also the issue of road safety, too many signs close together or poorly situated can cause distractions with consequential danger to road users. The highway agency are very opposed to any non offically approved sign, local highway authorities may be more tolerant but cruically no sign should be displayed without the agreement of land owner. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Butler Henderson Posted October 20, 2014 Share Posted October 20, 2014 Should also add theres the need to comply with the advert regulations, best described for clarity as being written by someone who had had a bad week on a Friday afternoon . An advertisement— (a)announcing any local event of a religious, educational, cultural, political, social or recreational character, or(b)relating to any temporary matter in connection with an event or local activity of such a character,not being an event or activity promoted or carried on for commercial purposes. Conditions and Limitations — (1) No advertisement may exceed 0.6 square metre in area (2) No advertisement may be displayed earlier than 28 days before the first day on which the event or activity is due to take place. (3) The advertisement shall be removed within 14 days after the end of the event or activity. (4) Illumination is not permitted. (5) No character or symbol on the advertisement may be more than 0.75 metre in height, or 0.3 metre in an area of special control (this is usually any non built up area) (6) No part of the advertisement may be more than 4.6 metres above ground level, or 3.6 metres in an area of special control. THE STANDARD CONDITIONS 1. No advertisement is to be displayed without the permission of the owner of the site or any other person with an interest in the site entitled to grant permission. 2. No advertisement shall be sited or displayed so as to— (a) endanger persons using any highway, railway, waterway, dock, harbour or aerodrome (civil or military); (b)obscure, or hinder the ready interpretation of, any traffic sign, railway signal or aid to navigation by water or air; or ©hinder the operation of any device used for the purpose of security or surveillance or for measuring the speed of any vehicle. 3. Any advertisement displayed, and any site used for the display of advertisements, shall be maintained in a condition that does not impair the visual amenity of the site. 4. Any structure or hoarding erected or used principally for the purpose of displaying advertisements shall be maintained in a condition that does not endanger the public. 5. Where an advertisement is required under these Regulations to be removed, the site shall be left in a condition that does not endanger the public or impair visual amenity. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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