Turntable at a Terminal Station

[micknich2003]

At Withernsea NERly the branch terminus, the Turntable was located at the end of Platform 1, the attached signalling layout explains far better then words. My question is what was the then current BoT regulations re the locking of the table and an aproching train etc? The attached diagram is dated 1955 but for this purpose is much the same as at 1904 when the layout was first installed.

 

[micknich2003]

Here is the missing attachment, I had to "Shrink" it to fit.

[The Stationmaster]

The 1902 version of the Requirements says absolutely nothing at all about such a situation.  The only stipulation relates to the provision of turntables and when they must be provided at a terminal station.

 

However I would have thought that the Inspecting Officer would have had something to say about the arrangement when reviewing the drawings or when carrying out a site inspection and it might be worth searching the archives for that sort of stuff.  The alternative is that the Railway said there was/would be an Instruction requiring trains to stop short of the turntable and that the table should always be left set for the engine of an arriving train - possibly there was an Appendix item to that effect?

 

As far as I can delve out the arrangements at both Ventnor and Bembridge in the isle of Wight were no different and the turntable was not interlocked with the signalling - in fact at Ventnor it was replaced by hand points although they were at least trailing for an arriving train.  Or maybe it was just considered that as the turntable lay beyond the station platform it wasn't part of the passenger railway?

[bécasse]

I think that the simple answer is that since by definition the turntable can't lie within the platform area of a terminus it is considered as being beyond the end of the running line. As The Stationmaster has pointed out, points giving access to the engine release road which lie beyond the platform end were commonly (but not invariably) hand-worked with no form of locking.

 

However, if I remember rightly, the turntable that lay beyond the platform ends at Crystal Palace HL was protected by shunt signals - this may have been because a road over bridge lay between the platform ends and the turntable and sighting may have been difficult.

[micknich2003]

Thanks for the replys, and as I thought there was no need to "Bolt the 'Table". Attached a "Blow Up" from a contempoary postcard, there is no roding run and only one signal wire, the later is obviously connected to the "Set Back" signal. Many Thanks, Mick.

[beast66606]

I wonder if No 1 was a spare because there were plans (/ one lever was left for, just in case ) a bolt lock on the TT

[micknich2003]

At several ex NERly 'boxes, it seems to have been the practice to have what would have been the Distant lever as a Spare. Obviously at Withernsea, there could not be an Up Distant, but that does not seem to be taken into account. .

[MarkC]

What an interesting topic, and indeed an interesting trackplan. Typical NER - signals everywhere!

 

Has anyone modelled this location?

[Joseph_Pestell]

What an interesting topic, and indeed an interesting trackplan. Typical NER - signals everywhere!

 

Has anyone modelled this location?

 

I seem to recall a model being featured in Railway Modeller -early 80s(?)

[Judge Dread]

At several ex NERly 'boxes, it seems to have been the practice to have what would have been the Distant lever as a Spare. Obviously at Withernsea, there could not be an Up Distant, but that does not seem to be taken into account. .

 

At several ex NERly 'boxes, it seems to have been the practice to have what would have been the Distant lever as a Spare. Obviously at Withernsea, there could not be an Up Distant, but that does not seem to be taken into account. .

Two things Young MickNick, have you forgotten Hornsea Town station's turntable? Secondly, no holiday to Withernsea could start without stopping as you left the platform to watch the loco being turned around. Happy days, they won't come back you know! 

[micknich2003]

Withernsea has to my knowledge been modelled at least three times, once in 7mm and twice in P4, the prototype was also written up in a late '60's or early '70's Model Railway Constructor. I have not forgotten Hornsea station, but there the turntable was located convensionaly in a siding. Hornsea's claim to fame was a level crossing at the end of a terminal station. Attached the 1898 signalling plan

[Gravy Train]

Hi Mick,

love that photo, very atmospheric.

peter

[micknich2003]

Peter, here is the full print.

 

[Focalplane]

Not quite the same thing as the tracks were always protected, whatever their position, but the traverser at Moor Street Birmingham was a similar solution to releasing the locomotive at a terminus without switches and signals.  There were only tank engines when I was a lad, so a turntable was not necessary.  There were three tracks on the traverser for the two platform tracks, AFAICR.  The space for the traverser is still there, by the way!

[Fat Controller]

Boulogne Maritime had a sector-plate at the platform end for loco release until its closure (1994?). IIRC, the plate was too short to take a pair of BB67400s, which were the usual traction, so they had to be split before running round.

[The Stationmaster]

Not quite the same thing as the tracks were always protected, whatever their position, but the traverser at Moor Street Birmingham was a similar solution to releasing the locomotive at a terminus without switches and signals.  There were only tank engines when I was a lad, so a turntable was not necessary.  There were three tracks on the traverser for the two platform tracks, AFAICR.  The space for the traverser is still there, by the way!

I've an inkling that the traversers at Moor St might well have had some sort of ground frame release.  After a quick google I found some detail here - they even had a fixed signal protecting them.

 

http://www.warwickshirerailways.com/gwr/gwrms1223.htm

[TheSignalEngineer]

The Moor St traversers were 60ft long, so could probably, with careful positioning and allowing for the overhang, take locos up to a Hall. I travelled into there behind one when they were still in use but don't know if the traverser was used to get it out or the stock was dragged out by another loco. They were removed in 1967 and an engine release crossover provided in Platform 3. 

 

Another interesting piece of equipment was the Sector Table at Snow Hill. This was located in the bay platforms on the Down side. It was removed in 1938. http://www.warwickshirerailways.com/gwr/gwrbsh1679.htm

[Dave Scott]

Another example was Crystal Palace High Level where all platform roads led on to a turntable

 

Just checked the history of the line and all 4 roads leaving the turntable had shunt dumies protecting the platform lines

[MarkC]

IIRC Rothbury had a 'table at the end of the platform too?

[sigtech]

Another interesting station was Ramsgate Harbour (LCDR).Very compact layout on the seashore, with the turntable at the end of the platforms and approached down a steep gradient...and through a tunnel.