JustAnotherDMU Posted November 9, 2014 Share Posted November 9, 2014 Hi all, Just looking for some advice/different view points. I am thinking of building a new layout, I have been looking at different options and ideas. The one idea which I haven't herd much about is single line working. I would like to build a (realistic) single line working layout. Preferably not too big. What do people think of this idea? Does anyone know any areas which would be good to model? Is there any resources which would help me come up with a pretty realistic idea? Thanks in advance Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Captain Kernow Posted November 9, 2014 RMweb Gold Share Posted November 9, 2014 Perhaps it would help if you could clarify - do you mean a single line of railway, where the authority to occupy the Single Line is perhaps an electric token, One Train Working Train Staff or a Train Staff Ticket, or do you mean the working of trains over one line of a double line of railway, which is technically what Single Line Working is. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
peanuts Posted November 9, 2014 Share Posted November 9, 2014 do you mean a double line being worked as a single line for emergency/engineering work or a line that is just single track between two points ? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Stationmaster Posted November 9, 2014 RMweb Gold Share Posted November 9, 2014 Perhaps it would help if you could clarify - do you mean a single line of railway, where the authority to occupy the Single Line is perhaps an electric token, One Train Working Train Staff or a Train Staff Ticket, or do you mean the working of trains over one line of a double line of railway, which is technically what Single Line Working is. A very good point (also made by 'Peanuts') as regrettably some writers about signalling and operation etc seem not to properly understand the difference or the importance and meaning of the terminology. Yet another case where, alas, sloppy writing, has misled the newcomer and possibly led to frustration and feelings of 'it's all too difficult' (which it isn't). Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Gwiwer Posted November 9, 2014 RMweb Premium Share Posted November 9, 2014 Welcome to RMWeb. I too would be happy to offer some advice and support but feel that the question is too broad to know where to begin. Perhaps through an absence of real knowledge of the prototype or through having no geographical or historical sources to start from. Or possibly the question has been asked in a perfectly specific way and we are trying to read too much into it. Maybe you could give us a few more thoughts. "Single line working" can mean many things. To a railway professional it can mean a multiple-track railway where only one is in use but in both directions; that might arise when there is a blockage on one but not all lines such as a fallen tree, a failed train or small-scale engineering works. To someone outside the industry the term might mean any single-track railway such as a rural branch line or a long siding. We're happy to help. But a little elaboration would be a good starting point. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Scott Posted November 9, 2014 Share Posted November 9, 2014 If you mean working a double track line as a single line during engineering works - watch this film http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F79R3Fg-pPY just let it run you get to the film eventually Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Stationmaster Posted November 9, 2014 RMweb Gold Share Posted November 9, 2014 If you mean working a double track line as a single line during engineering works - watch this film http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F79R3Fg-pPY just let it run you get to the film eventually I do hope it's the corrected version and not the original - several of those who were in it, and their mates, were overjoyed that parts of it had to be reshot as it meant some overtime and some Rest Days worked. Being S&D JTR blokes - always a 'careful' bunch - one could almost suspect that they had said nothing about the errors when it was originally filmed because they knew it had to be redone but according to one of my informants they had actually been working to a script and that was wrong. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Scott Posted November 9, 2014 Share Posted November 9, 2014 I do hope it's the corrected version and not the original - several of those who were in it, and their mates, were overjoyed that parts of it had to be reshot as it meant some overtime and some Rest Days worked. Being S&D JTR blokes - always a 'careful' bunch - one could almost suspect that they had said nothing about the errors when it was originally filmed because they knew it had to be redone but according to one of my informants they had actually been working to a script and that was wrong. As its the copy from the BTF archive I would hope its the final version. I have a version on VHS and have watched it a number of times. "Stay awake at the back there" springs to mind. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Stationmaster Posted November 9, 2014 RMweb Gold Share Posted November 9, 2014 As its the copy from the BTF archive I would hope its the final version. I have a version on VHS and have watched it a number of times. "Stay awake at the back there" springs to mind. Trouble is that BTF kept the original version as well and it used to make occasional appearances to be greeted by much laughter from professionals - I don't know if it survived into BFI hands. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold PaulRhB Posted November 9, 2014 RMweb Gold Share Posted November 9, 2014 Assuming you mean a single line with loops ,(rather than SLW which is a method of operating when one line of two or more is blocked), then two dramatically different scenic options are the West Highland line and the West of England (Salisbury to Exeter) some idea of period and possibly region you like would help. I'm guessing diesel era from your username? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
JustAnotherDMU Posted November 9, 2014 Author Share Posted November 9, 2014 Thank you for all the responses! To clarify, I mean a section of line which may only be occupied by one train in possession of a token, for example electronic token block. With regards or the era, yes I like diesel! At the moment I am very keen on buying some class 166 turbos! I have no specific period, though the network south east era seems to be of interest (I own a class 466 networker) Since it would be quite a small layout, as in a very long shelf layout, I'm unsure as to what gauge would work best. All my experience is in OO though N gauge seems more practical as it's smaller thus I could make the layout bigger I was thinking of maybe a single section of track, which has a station at either end and then a lot of detail on the single line operation. Not too sure how I can approach this, I did find this video which seemed helpful http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=qpYkuBvmmak Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Oldddudders Posted November 9, 2014 RMweb Gold Share Posted November 9, 2014 Hmmm. By the time you get to Networker I can't think of anywhere that those units would have run over a single line, other than the reversible lines in the North Kent East Junction - London Bridge area. And they had been introduced in 1976, with full reversible colour-light signalling. "Electronic" tends to go with tokenless, rather than token, i.e. the token is a virtual item not a 3-d one, and found in RETB - Radio Electronic Tokenless Block, much practised in Northern Scotland, where the trains are less than truly frequent. OTOH, you could imagine that certain routes had not evolved as they have. Suppose the Alton-Winchester route had not closed 42 years ago, but instead been electrified with the existing signalling retained. You have just put the Mid-Hants Railway out of business, but now have real signalboxes and a single line. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
JustAnotherDMU Posted November 9, 2014 Author Share Posted November 9, 2014 Yeah haha networks really don't go well with this scenario, I just tend to buy what trains take my fancy. Like the class 466 and 166 really don't go together as they are used on diffrent sections of railway! I don't even think you could imagine a 166 Turbo running in Kent as they are a wider gauge for the great western mainline! I think perhaps another option is of a two track railway running as a single line due to engineering works or failure - this could work better I suppose. I am just really keen to do something interesting with a limited amount of space, so this could make for quite unique operation? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edwin_m Posted November 9, 2014 Share Posted November 9, 2014 As Ian says, a 466 Networker doesn't run anywhere with single line token working. I'm not very much up on Souteastern-land but I think there may be a couple of single line curves linking other lines, but on these the signalling system will only clear signals for one train and no token is used. Some of the Thames Valley branches where Turbos operate use some form of token system I think (Mike will know more!), as do some rural routes such as the Cornish branches (mostly 150s), Heart of Wales (mostly 153s) and the Whitby branch (mostly 156s). At most stations on these routes there is no signal box, but at the end station of each single line section the driver opens a locked hut or cabinet on the platform, speaks to the signalman and obtains the token, which prevents any other token for the same section being removed until it is replaced at the other end of the section. Usually a signalman in one box will supervise several sections of single line in this way. Radio Electronic Token Block now only operates on the remoter lines in Scotland with 156s and 158s, but was also used on the Cambrian and East Suffolk lines until a few years ago. This works on the same sort of principle but the "token" is a digital message sent by radio to a box in the cab. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
JustAnotherDMU Posted November 9, 2014 Author Share Posted November 9, 2014 Hmm, does anyone have any idea where I can see some pictures of a Model Railway which operates Single line working? I think my diversity in rolling-stock makes it almost impossible to set down on a non fictional layout aha. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold PaulRhB Posted November 9, 2014 RMweb Gold Share Posted November 9, 2014 Do you want to simulate the actual token machines or just what's visible on the model? Much of the equipment is hidden, Something like Radio Electric Token Block has unique signs and lights but the actual token is transferred electronically. You still have various a Key Token systems where the machine is hidden within a Signalbox or a small hut or cabinet at remote stations where the driver operated the token machine with the release remotely from the Signaller. The HST125video of the Castle Cary Weymouth line shows this in action at Yeovil Oen Mill. Again not much to see apart from conventional Signals. Track Circuit Block or Tokenless Block have all the equipment within the box interlocking so no physical tokens at all. TCB has tracks that have to be operated in correct sequence, modern installations with axle counters instead of track circuits so you'd see the small yellow box at various places depending on how they split the section. There may be two or three axle counter sections in a single line section so the Signalman can tell where the train is but all have to be clear before the system will allow another train to enter. Tokenless Block relies on short tracks at both ends and usually treadles too being sequenced correctly. In between in the section you're in a 'black hole' where the system will show train on line but not where it is, the track diagram is just a black line with no lights (hence black hole). While the line may be freelance you can model on end as a junction into a station on double track to suggest the wider world. Also are you thinking of any freight as you could have an industry at the far end to add variety. A small oil or stone terminal maybe? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
JustAnotherDMU Posted November 9, 2014 Author Share Posted November 9, 2014 I think I will recreate it as an element of railway operation if I can (I work in IT so I can devise some way!). I like the ideas of the double track at the end of a junction with a small oil terminal! Great idea. Do you know where I could get some layout plans for a single line? As I'm unsure what I should be building and i want to make it look as technically real as possible. With regards to the stock I think I will just run on whatever I fancy. At the moment 166 466 HST's and maybe some class 60's would be cool. I had some ideas for the control of the layout which involve a raspberry pi and some homemade computer software possibly! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold PaulRhB Posted November 9, 2014 RMweb Gold Share Posted November 9, 2014 Well HST's on single line does happen on the WoE line with diversions but they don't tend to fit in the passing loops and wouldn't run to a small terminus really. Basically you start with a passing loop and just add odd sidings to suit, Use google maps to look at Gillingham (Dorset), Templecombe, Alton, Yeovil Pen Mill and Maiden Newton for a variety of layouts. If you want track diagrams for the present day then there's really only Quail maps I know of though you might find a few online pictures too. They don't include signalling detail though. http://www.trackmaps.co.uk/trackmaps/product.asp?productid=7&shopcategory=3 Figure out what space you have and what trains you want to run. If you can get some lining paper and lay it out to represent the space full size and then lay your existing stock on it you'll get an idea of what's possible which might help with scale. I guess N is going to give more options for a run between stations and longer loops to allow different units. Freight can be a loco and 2-5 wagons so shorty goods is possible in the same length as a unit. Look for images of Holybourne terminal or Fort William oil sidings. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Gwiwer Posted November 9, 2014 RMweb Premium Share Posted November 9, 2014 HST's on single line does happen on the WoE line with diversions but they don't tend to fit in the passing loops and wouldn't run to a small terminus really. Newquay? Daily for several months of the year? They fit in Goonbarrow loop. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RJS1977 Posted November 9, 2014 Share Posted November 9, 2014 The Cotswold Line (prior to redoubling) would be a possibility, or maybe the Cornish lines (given that the 165s/166s will be transferred down there when the Thames Valley lines are electrified (of course Marlow, Windsor and Henley lines are single track too - but they don't get HSTs. None of these routes have ever had third rail, let alone Networkers though. On a technical point, I believe the 166s are slightly narrower than the 165s because they can work the Guildford/Gatwick line which was not built to BG clearances. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sto243 Posted November 10, 2014 Share Posted November 10, 2014 Yeah haha networks really don't go well with this scenario, I just tend to buy what trains take my fancy. Like the class 466 and 166 really don't go together as they are used on diffrent sections of railway! I don't even think you could imagine a 166 Turbo running in Kent as they are a wider gauge for the great western mainline! I think perhaps another option is of a two track railway running as a single line due to engineering works or failure - this could work better I suppose. I am just really keen to do something interesting with a limited amount of space, so this could make for quite unique operation? If you want to run class 166s on a single line, there are several Thames Valley branches, such as the Maidenhead - Bourne End - Marlow branch, which has 165s and 166s as the usual fare. For example, there are photos of a 166 running on it here: http://www.mmpa.org.uk/gallery/gallery9/index.html Bourne End station would make an interesting small layout: it is a tiny terminus with 2 platforms and just 2 points, but can be run intensively with 2 trains arriving/departing almost simultaneously in the peaks, and some interesting (albeit very rare) special workings as shown here: http://www.mdrs.org.uk/wycmaidmarlow.htm Unfortunately it can't stretch to a 466 though... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sto243 Posted November 10, 2014 Share Posted November 10, 2014 Another option if you're dead-set on a 466 is the Hastings Line, which according to Wikipedia occasionally sees them in use, as seen here: http://www.geograph.org.uk/photo/2786881 You could have a double track going to single through a tunnel, then doubling again. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Gwiwer Posted November 10, 2014 RMweb Premium Share Posted November 10, 2014 Another option if you're dead-set on a 466 is the Hastings Line, which according to Wikipedia occasionally sees them in use, as seen here: http://www.geograph.org.uk/photo/2786881 You could have a double track going to single through a tunnel, then doubling again. Personally I know of no recorded sighting of a 466 on the Tonbridge - Hastings route though as always I am prepared to sit corrected if such has occurred. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RJS1977 Posted November 10, 2014 Share Posted November 10, 2014 Just realised anotehr piece of single track which has HSTs and will probably see 166s after electrification - The Royal Albert Bridge! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold PaulRhB Posted November 10, 2014 RMweb Gold Share Posted November 10, 2014 Newquay? Daily for several months of the year? They fit in Goonbarrow loop. I meant they don't fit the WoE loops and he'll need to consider the length required as it will eat space not required for the other units. As with Weymouth they do run to smaller termini but in model form they don't really end up as small stations at 8-9ft long platforms Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.