Split level baseboard

[Derekstuart]

I wonder if anyone could suggest which option would be best for the following:

I have a layout (just a small test layout with 2 boards, each 4 by 2ft). At the front there is an estuary wall about 3" in from the front (except at one end where it come in perhaps 9" from the front).

 

I have looked at several different options- either 2*1" timber frame with a flat board, and then using risers to the 90% or so that would make up the rest of the layout. Also I've looked at plywood frames, with each part of the structure contoured as appropriate. And finally the 2*1 frame with the 3" part of the board laid on it and then use more 2*1 risers for the rest- in effect most of the frame would become 4*1.

 

I have bought 1/2" MDF as that was all that was available from Wickes (but I can replace it if need be).

 

I have of course looked into many different ideas on this and other forums, but I couldn't find an example close to my design. I am only building this really as a small test to brush up the skills required for my big project.
 

(speaking of which- anyone have any opinions on the largest practical board size? It won't be really for exhibitions, other than very, very occasionally- I have plenty of space to keep it fully assembled. Again it would have this split level issue. Transport for the VERY occasional outing would be no issue either, as I have a fleet of trucks).

 

Any advice or links to previous similar discussions appreciated.

Derek

[DCB]

I found MDF to be useless as a baseboard, pins went in with extreme difficulty and fell back out again. Sundela board or similar is far better     The doubled up 2X1 making 4 X 1 sounds good to me

[gordon s]

On the other hand, don't use Sundela.  It absorbs water like a sponge and warps badly.  I've tried and failed.  Good quality plywood (not the DIY chain stuff) is far better.  I use 12mm but others get good results with 6mm-9mm thickness.

 

Max board size I would suggest would be 1200 x 600.  Once you get much beyond that size, weight and transportation could become an issue.

[Derekstuart]

Thanks chaps.

 

I don't expect I will be using track pins so that's not an issue for me.

 

Manual handling and transportation isn't an issue either as I said above, I have a fleet of large commercial vehicles and appropriate loading equipment.

 

What I am more concerned about is making sure the structure doesn't warp... now- off to work out what 1200*600 is in old money

[Judge Dread]

On the other hand, don't use Sundela.  It absorbs water like a sponge and warps badly.  I've tried and failed.  Good quality plywood (not the DIY chain stuff) is far better.  I use 12mm but others get good results with 6mm-9mm thickness.

 

Max board size I would suggest would be 1200 x 600.  Once you get much beyond that size, weight and transportation could become an issue.

I would agree with the sentiment of "Don't use Sundela" with a font 10foot high if I could get it on this page. A number of years ago I sat on the bench with a chap who's family timber importing firm goes back many years here in Hull and when I asked him if he still marketed Sundela he was some what shocked and replied, "Good God no, no-one in their right mind uses Sundela any more!".

Good quality plywood from a good quality timber merchant is the answer, not from certain high volume DIY stores.

[hayfield]

I have had no problems with a set of baseboards made from MDF and they have been kept in a cold clubroom with little heat once a week for a few hours. What I did do was to paint them (both sides) with silk emulsion paint to seal them in. I have glued the underlay and track down with Copydex, though any decent type of glue would surfice. I have used pins to anchor the rail down at the ends without any problems.

 

I have another layout at home with a MDF top and backing, had no problems whatever with it. I do stick both underlay and track down and do not use pins as its not RTR setrack. Like all things treat it according to the conditions you want to use it in/with and you will not have any problems 

[Derekstuart]

I take it you're the same "Hayfield" from Templot forum? It's a small world. I've been reading things you've published. Very informative, thanks.

[hayfield]

Derek

 

I am, baseboards are like everything. If you use the wrong material for the environment it will be in, or fail to include enough support then you will have problems. Well built and designed baseboards will stand up to what's required of them.

 

A friend of mine built his baseboards years ago in chipboard (like many did) it was stored in a slightly damp area and it affected its stability. Had it been treated or kept in the dry then all would have been OK. I would paint both sides and edges of the MDF with any paint or varnish that dry's waterproof. I am surprised pins did not hold, but then I glue track down

[martin_wynne]

Hi Derek,

 

Sundeala is fine as a trackbed material providing it is on top of something else, such as plywood. Don't use it as a structural item.

 

It makes a nice material to work on. You can push in pins easily; carve it away in places to avoid the "dead-flat-ground look; slot in buildings so that they look to have solid foundations instead of plonked-on; run wiring and point-linkages in slots cut into it. And it adds a bit of sound-deadening. Definitely worth considering.

 

Martin.

[Derekstuart]

Hi John

 

You may recall that I am looking at a big project of 35+ft long (mostly 3ft wide, but at one point 6ft), so I have decided to develop something smaller and easier first as you can't jump from 100 sq ft from a couple of planks and expect it to go right.

 

For this, I am wondering now about 4'*2' with using 3 longitudinal supports and 4 width ways (giving 6 'compartments'). To provide the quay at the front, I am looking at cutting the timber down to 2 or 3 inches so that it still has the main strength there.

 

Any opinions on that? I have a CAD drawing but can't seem to upload it to this site.

Derek

[Derekstuart]

Hello Martin

 

Thanks for the advice. I have heard people use sundeala in the way you describe. However, to use it as a means to make my quayside area wouldn't work as I would need to cover all but a narrow strip of it in 1" thick.

 

The main selling point of sundeala seems to be track pins. Thanks to Templot, I have designed a small junction in P4 (steering clear of tandems and slips for this trial layout!) so I won't be using track pins anyway.

You make a good point about sitting buildings IN rather than ON the board, which is why I am going to use 1/8" cork and cut it away at each relevant point.... it might even deaden some sound!

Thanks again
Derek

[Derekstuart]

I think I know what you mean- just add a lip onto the front. I thought that first as it doesn't need to be load bearing. BUT as it's going to have chemical water stuff on it, it can't bend as the slightest bend will cause it to shatter.

 

I think I might slightly change my plan on this. I must admit that I didn't realise baseboard design would be so problematic. As I've said above, I am trying to do this in a 'proof of concept' type way for my big project.

Thanks for the advice.

Derek

[hayfield]

Derek

 

If its a trial for a larger layout I would use MDF for the trial, though for the main layout Ply might be better. As I said I found B&Q very helpful in stripping down a sheet of MDF at no cost (don't go at a prime time). I think frames now are between 75 mm and 100 mm deep, If you wish to cut one down for the dock then these could be strengthened with pine beading (B&Q sell pine strips at various widths and thickness's) or ply, both being glued and screwed. Many making this type of board remove sections on the internal battens to save weight and ease wiring looms. You will need to work out the minimum depth required for point motors etc

 

An 8'  x  4'  sheet could be cut down to 1 x 600mm and 6 x 100mm lengths. this should be enough to build 2 trial boards. I think a 6mm thick board cost me under £15, some softwood or pine battens would strengthen up the corner joints. No reason why baseboards could not be made up for around £10 each. You could look at the cost of ply in large sheets

 

Just checked B&Q prices 6mm MDF is £13 where as 6mm ply is £19 both 2.44m x 1.22m, 9mm ply is £22. At these costs ply wins

 

Edit The cost of a 2' x 4' sheet of 9mm ply is £20 !!, the same size MDF in 6mm thickness is £9.18

[gordon s]

I pay around £25-£30 for an 8' x 4' (2440 x 1220) sheet of good quality ply from my timber merchant.  He cuts it down to 4 sheets of 1220 x 610 so that it will fit in the back of my car.  DIY store ply can be an issue as both my and others experience show.  Experience has shown that the quality is way inferior to that of a decent timber merchant.  As always, you get what you pay for and cutting any corners at the front end will only give you problems at a later stage.  Spending a little more at the outset will certainly pay dividends for years to come.

 

As you will see from Hayfield's post, it can be a fallacy that cost from a timber merchant is going to be higher.  Serious woodworkers will always use a merchant as generally they know more about timber.  The DIY stores aim at the casual home worker who buy occasionally and may not recognise the quality/price ratio.  Based on the above figures, I'm getting a good quality 4' x 2' sheet of 12mm ply for around £6-£7 which is probably similar to the DIY store offering of £22 for an 8 x 4 sheet of 9mm once cut down.  Their £20 price for a 4'x 2' is a good example of chance marketing aimed at the casual purchaser.

 

Don't be taken in by the supposed convenience and advertising hype…..

[hayfield]

I would like to echo Gordon's advice of seeing what's available and where. I have recently built a work room in my garage. I was advised to shop around and found a builders merchant  much closer to my house with excellent prices on most products, especially with things like screws, wood and plasterboard. But with sheet material the MDF was the same quality and free cuts at B&Q. As Gordon has illustrated small sheets and packets of screws can be very expensive

[Derekstuart]

Thank you everyone. I think I know which direction to head now (yes- giving up and learning the violin!).

 

I will go for ply straight away as I want the experience of building boards in the manner I will use later and I know that won't include MDF. The main boards are going to be pretty cumbersome, so the more I can experiment now...

 

As for local timber merchant Vs b&q. I have to say that I naturally prefer supporting smaller retailers (even though my small purchase isn't going to have any company, large or small, jumping up and down for joy).

 

Again, my sincere thanks to you all for your advice. I think I am now at the point where I can start DOING something.

Derek