geoffers Posted November 17, 2014 Share Posted November 17, 2014 Tied in with Topsy11's questions really. As an old git who has been modelling DC for the years of a donkey I have recently been experimenting with DCC. My current layout is a 14 foot plank terminus to fiddle yard. It is controlled by a Gaugemaster DS and a Model W walkabout. Quite happy with all of this except the great retirement project is now beckoning and I have the room for a roughly 15x7 layout. So do I go for DCC? Only I can answer that so that is not my request. Bear in mind I have a lot of locos. I am experimenting with a NCE Powercab and am about to adapt the current layout so I can switch between DC and DCC. I already have a handful of chipped locos including sound. I now come onto my question and apologise for the long introduction. I have recently bought four Digitrax DN136PS chips. What recommendations for what locos would you think these best suited for? Diesels/Steam? Heljan/Hornby/Bachmann/Dapol?? Cannot say I am looking forward to dismantling locos to install a chip. I guess diesels are easier. These chips may well suit diesels better any way but with 1.5 amps peak are they suitable for Heljan given their relatively high current draw? Cheers to all. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
deadlyduck Posted November 17, 2014 Share Posted November 17, 2014 The simple answer is yes you can change your lasyout from DC to DCC we have done it on our club layout.The hard bit is how you have your layout wired now .1 point to remember (pardon the pun)is with DCC you have to get power to all parts of the layout,with no dead spots.As for controllers that a matter of your choice the 1 you have in mind is very good,i would say 1 of the best.But we all have our own favourite.As i say to all best to get to handle them all if possible.Like a DCC recognised shop or a show.The NEC is the prime option as all the manufacturers will be there so you can check them out + get professional advice.Not sure about decoders, i use ESUs + Zimo in my Heljan David Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
geoffers Posted November 17, 2014 Author Share Posted November 17, 2014 Thanks David. The DC layout is wired through a switchboard so all I need to do is switch them all on when reverting to DCC. Must remember to take all the non-chipped locos off of course!! Rather than use a DPDT switch to cross between analogue and digital I am going to use a plug that I physically have to engage and pull out with the DC and DCC plug different colours! Using the NCE Powercab on a programming track and on a rolling road it fits the bill for me. I tested a few controllers before plumping for it as an entry system. I like the thumbwheel control particularly. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
deadlyduck Posted November 17, 2014 Share Posted November 17, 2014 No problem,go onto YouTube type in Bachmann Bluetooth N be amazed Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adrian Wintle Posted November 17, 2014 Share Posted November 17, 2014 DN136PS decoders could be used for just about anything. The only real limitation is that they are only three functions (head and tail lights take 2 of those) and that their motor control isn't as good as some of the better European decoders. I'd suggest that they would be good for steam locos since the wiring harness will allow you to put the decoder where it will fit. They should be fine in Heljan diesels, but I'd still suggest using them in locos where space is at a premium. Adrian Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
geoffers Posted November 18, 2014 Author Share Posted November 18, 2014 Thanks Adrian - that's brill. I was not sure how good or bad a chip they were. I'll try them out and maybe get hold of and try a Zimo or Lenz when funds permit. Geoff Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
geoffers Posted November 18, 2014 Author Share Posted November 18, 2014 Also thanks deadly duck - I looked up your suggestion with YouTube. Will be interesting to see how this develops. Is it for me? Not sure since I have an ongoing battle of wills with my android phone as it is. I still belong to the luddite tendency that sees a phone as a phone!!! As an aside I went to a science open day at the Institute of Astronomy at the University of Cambridge in March 2013 where a very entertaining talk was given by a "trekkie" in a Star Trek uniform to illustrate how many things we are now taking for granted were "science fiction" in the original series such as communicators - "beam me up Scottie" Geoff Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron Ron Ron Posted November 18, 2014 Share Posted November 18, 2014 ..... I still belong to the luddite tendency that sees a phone as a phone!!! What! you can make phone calls on them too? Remarkable ! .......how many things we are now taking for granted were "science fiction" in the original series such as communicators - "beam me up Scottie" Well they haven't got round to Beaming people up yet. Whether it would ever come to fruition is one thing, but I don't fancy being Beamed Up and it all going horribly wrong. Imagine coming out the other end as as some grotesque mangled malformation of body matter and looking something like........Richard Branson ...or even Andy York !!!! Shudder !!!!!! . Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
34theletterbetweenB&D Posted November 18, 2014 Share Posted November 18, 2014 ... I was not sure how good or bad a chip they were. I'll try them out and maybe get hold of and try a Zimo or Lenz when funds permit. Slightly different suggestion. Try a Lenz standard as a 'marker' for what a modestly priced good decoder can do, in a steam loco. I use these almost exclusively, with just a few Zimos to tame older mechanisms where their very comprehensive motor management options really come into play. Based on past experience, I would confine Digitrax decoders to undemanding tasks. Current centre motor flywheel drives which are intrinsically smooth running should be suitable. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
geoffers Posted November 18, 2014 Author Share Posted November 18, 2014 Thanks again 34 - I'll try that. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
geoffers Posted November 18, 2014 Author Share Posted November 18, 2014 Ha Ron, Ron, Ron - went to a public lecture in Oxford some years ago where the presenter (a physics prof) showed that mathematically it is possible to move things from one place to another (even I followed the maths) and I believe it has actually been done by moving a tiny molecule of some substance a tiny distance but the useage of enery to do so was prodigious and to move a human would need some gargantuan amount way beyond any that we could generate. It also led to a debate as to how genuine a reconstituted person would be if beamed any distance. Would they be the same person? What if a piece of art was beamed, say from a London auction house to a buyer in the Staes, would the result at the other end be the same piece of art? Could it be considered as genuine? And to remember the film "The Fly" let us hope no other dna gets mixed in!! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron Ron Ron Posted November 18, 2014 Share Posted November 18, 2014 ....went to a public lecture in Oxford some years ago where the presenter (a physics prof) showed that mathematically it is possible to move things from one place to another....... My wife is no Physics professor, but she's very good at doing that ! I hadn't realised she was a scientist? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
geoffers Posted November 18, 2014 Author Share Posted November 18, 2014 My wife too - she also like moving things. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
deadlyduck Posted November 18, 2014 Share Posted November 18, 2014 like us humans science has no bounds.Its interesting the Album Thw Wall by Pink Floyd predicted the fall of the Berlin wall 10 years before it happened.Maybe someone beamed them for a forward look .Remember the USA are light years ahead of us in the railway themes Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
WardRail Posted November 20, 2014 Share Posted November 20, 2014 Errr.. Excuse off topic post but.. The Wall was about Roger Waters growing up without a father (killed during WW2) and the "wall" he built around himself to keep people out of his life. It just so happened that the Berlin Wall came down 10 or so years after the album was released and a celebrity concert version of the wall was done. Watch the movie, the kid who grows up into Bob Geldorf's character "Pink" is playing Roger Waters, as is Geldorf himself. Best Matthew (a diehard Floydophile !) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
deadlyduck Posted November 20, 2014 Share Posted November 20, 2014 what could help is someone compiling a chart with all things related to ALL DCC equipment,as to how they fare as individual units + against other makes n decoders are a must,which are the most reliable,what specs,what motors they are best with,can they be run on DC layouts,are they Capacitor friendly.These are some of the issues fot just 1 DCC item.Wouldnt it be great to have the information at hand ???? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
WardRail Posted November 20, 2014 Share Posted November 20, 2014 Hmm it'd be nice, but by its very nature, would be based on personal preferences, which might not be the view shared by other users of chips which are not acceptable to the compiler of the table For instance, I prefer TCS and DCC Concepts chips myself, because I can afford them and I appreciate the fact that all user tweakable CV's are tweakable in those two brands, unlike some of the Hornby/Bachmann chips I've tried where at least one of the low numbered CV's (2-6) are locked off at whatever value the manufacturer has set them at. Don't mind Hornby's Sapphire, that one does have all user tweakable CV's available, but the price on them out here in Oz is prohibitive to a disability pensioner like moi and I can get two TCS 21 pin decoders for the price of a Sapphire. Nothing wrong with the TCS 21 pinners either, just cheaper than the Sapphire The above is personal opinion only - other decoder preferences are available - horses for courses an' all that ! Best Matthew Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
deadlyduck Posted November 20, 2014 Share Posted November 20, 2014 You missed the point im not talking specifics im talking about the general things.who mentioned CVs ?Im not bothered who likes what im just suggesting which 1 is the most reliable,if 1 is better suited to a specific motor.Its just about the basics OK Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
WardRail Posted November 20, 2014 Share Posted November 20, 2014 .. And I'm afraid, with all due respect that you missed my point With all due respect, you can't hope to match a decoder to a loco/motor without being able to tweak all the low (and a few of the higher numbered ones as well !) CV's as I mentioned. I've tried many brands over the years and that's what I've found through sometimes bitter experience. In theory, you should be able to match any decoder to any loco/motor within reason, and get the loco running to your personal liking, but the practicality of things like current draw/stall current of the motor concerned means it ain't necessarily so. Without any offence intended at all, how long have you been operating with DCC ? No offence intended in any way. Its all down to personal preferences as I said... Best Matthew Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
deadlyduck Posted November 20, 2014 Share Posted November 20, 2014 Ok lets take this from another angle,it gotta be possible to rate a decoder for the 3 main manufacturers of 00 gauge locos namely Bachman/Hornby/Heljan ok,im not talking about any one elses as i say this is basic.It appears as you say you have had bitter experience how better would that have made you if you now some of what you know now.My threads are aimed at people that are trying to come into this great hobby n stop in it.with the money to need to even get a foothold it would be superb if they are given or can get all the info they can BEFORE they purchase anything.we all have our stories to tell.Wouldnt it be great if you could look up a list as to what does what to what.go buy a car all the relevent info is there.Go try to get it for any model railway items.Its a lotta money to make the wrong choices with.O ive been into DCC from Zero 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
WardRail Posted November 22, 2014 Share Posted November 22, 2014 Fair enough In that case I'd say TCS (ducks to avoid incoming brickbats !) especially for known "sticky" locos like Heljan. Never had a TCS failure that wasn't my fault. That's combined with a no questions asked 2 year "goof proof" warranty, which is honoured by the retailers I deal with. They're affordable, without being expensive (a bonus for disability pensioners like me, limping from one financial crisis to the next) and out here in Australia, not all the brands you have over there are available (Zimo for one). Most retailers out here stock TCS as well. Usual disclaimer, no connection except that of a satisfied customer and other decoder brands are available for those who favour them. I do recommend a good run in in both directions for roughly 30 minutes in each direction (at varying speeds) on DC for all locos as well before chipping, it frees/beds in the gear trains (never know how long its been since they left the factory and what might have happened to the factory applied clag that passes (barely) for lubrication of some kind) and will soon identify any running faults with the loco before you run the chance of frying a chip ! Best Matthew Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
deadlyduck Posted November 22, 2014 Share Posted November 22, 2014 Fair enough In that case I'd say TCS (ducks to avoid incoming brickbats !) especially for known "sticky" locos like Heljan. Never had a TCS failure that wasn't my fault. That's combined with a no questions asked 2 year "goof proof" warranty, which is honoured by the retailers I deal with. They're affordable, without being expensive (a bonus for disability pensioners like me, limping from one financial crisis to the next) and out here in Australia, not all the brands you have over there are available (Zimo for one). Most retailers out here stock TCS as well. Usual disclaimer, no connection except that of a satisfied customer and other decoder brands are available for those who favour them. I do recommend a good run in in both directions for roughly 30 minutes in each direction (at varying speeds) on DC for all locos as well before chipping, it frees/beds in the gear trains (never know how long its been since they left the factory and what might have happened to the factory applied clag that passes (barely) for lubrication of some kind) and will soon identify any running faults with the loco before you run the chance of frying a chip ! Best Matthew Brickbat noted ive use TCS decoders tsill do DPX 8 pins .Ive never had 1 fail.I dont but my Zimo from the UK they are far too expensive .The thing im trying n failing to do is get across a message how great it would be for a magazine to write some atricles as to what decoder does what if 1 has 2 functions 1 has 10 functions,what do they do,do we need them,do they all function ok with the RTR models they are presumably aimed for.It just a basic request to get something that newcomers can get info on before spending money of a product they didnt want Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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