DavidB-AU Posted December 7, 2014 Share Posted December 7, 2014 A rail replacement bus service had its roof ripped off after crashing into a railway bridge. http://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/news/rail-replacement-bus-causes-wirral-8238825 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pH Posted December 7, 2014 Share Posted December 7, 2014 That bus must have been going at a fair speed to take the whole roof off. I've seen one hit a bridge (fortunately while running empty), and it only crumpled the first 10 feet or so of the roof. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doorslammer Posted December 7, 2014 Share Posted December 7, 2014 Luckily, they can use the railw... oh Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Stationmaster Posted December 7, 2014 RMweb Gold Share Posted December 7, 2014 One wonders about the local knowledge (lack of) and the driver's ability to understand road signs? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
durham light infantry Posted December 7, 2014 Share Posted December 7, 2014 One wonders about the local knowledge (lack of) and the driver's ability to understand road signs? The driver will probably not be in employment, or the holder of a PCV licence for much longer. Mike Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Southernman46 Posted December 7, 2014 Share Posted December 7, 2014 We did some work at NR some years ago on this and long story short, it is a fact that bus drivers who are completely aware that they are driving a DD but are on an unusual route or a diversion can simply get a kind of mental block and end up doing this or pulling up short and having to turn back having realised in time.............some of the PSV guys on here might be able to shed some light on the pre-job briefings that the drivers receive............. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baby Deltic Posted December 7, 2014 Share Posted December 7, 2014 Oh the irony...... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baby Deltic Posted December 7, 2014 Share Posted December 7, 2014 They are running a rail replacement bus service replacement bus service now from what I hear... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
'CHARD Posted December 7, 2014 Share Posted December 7, 2014 I think the ALX 400 body may be designed for that to happen, so the roof doesn't deform into the passenger space, causing injury. We had the lid off a local WM similar bodied Volvo B7L a couple of years ago, and it was detached in precisely the same way by the bough of a tree, when there was a diversion in force. EDIT: here's our roof sat behind the bus it just got off: http://www.birminghammail.co.uk/news/local-news/picture-top-of-double-decker-bus-sliced-1218191 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prometheus Posted December 7, 2014 Share Posted December 7, 2014 Many years ago, 1975 I think, in between graduating and waiting for the job I was after to come up, I worked for a year as a bus driver for Taff Ely [Pontypridd]. We ran an alternate mornings / afternoons shuttle to Caerphilly - quite a fast run - in partnership with Caerphilly UDC and used a combination of Leyland [Leopard ?] saloons and a pair of AEC low-decker types [because of a low railway bridge beyond the top of what was then locally called BOAC hill]. On one occasion, I was driving one of the deckers towards Caerphilly and approaching the railway bridge noticed too late that some scaffolding that had been erected around the parapet had dropped slightly. A partially detached pole was hanging down and - at I suppose 25 - 30mph - I hit it square on. It opened a seam in the roof that ran for about 3/4s of its length, almost dead centre, following the gangway [these were not side-gangwayed bodies]. No-one was hurt but, not unreasonably, top deck passengers were shaken. This was entirely unavoidable and it transpired that the scaffolding had dislodged possibly tens of minutes before I arrived. Nevertheless, the police [at that time], with their dislike of busdrivers, were extremely officious and warned me of dire consequences. Of course, nothing followed and British Rail collected the tab for their liability. It was a lucky escape for a number of passengers however. Tony Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wheatley Posted December 7, 2014 Share Posted December 7, 2014 Merseyrail has confirmed there were no passengers on board at the time of the incident. I wonder how many claims they'll receive ? Less frivolously, it is a recognised fact within the rail industry that rail-replacement buses are statistically more likely to do this for exactly the reasons Southernman suggests - unfamiliar routes in close proximity to railway lines. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium PhilJ W Posted December 7, 2014 RMweb Premium Share Posted December 7, 2014 When they had open top buses in Southend the conductor had to warn the upper deck passengers to remain seated when passing beneath the pier, (which passed over the seafront promenade). Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xerces Fobe2 Posted December 7, 2014 Share Posted December 7, 2014 I hope that the bus replacement, rail replacement service users a different route! I have witnessed a similar incident a few years back and the roof over top deck of the bus is made out fibre glass and it appear that it is design to shear off in the event of an impact with a low hanging structure or object. Why aren't buses and high lorries fitted with a Satnav that identifies low bridges as be money well spent and if it can be done for speed cameras why not low bridges? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium jamie92208 Posted December 7, 2014 RMweb Premium Share Posted December 7, 2014 My limited experience of rail replacement buses would confirm that briefings are often inadequate, sometimes for understandable reasons I was turfed out at Preston once en route back to West Yorkshire and all the bus driver got was a page torn out of a notebook with a list of stations scribbled on it. He then had to find stations such as Burnley Manchester Road using his sat nav. Unfortunatley someone had forgoten to put 'New Pudsey on the list so i had to direct him to the station and persuade him to stop there for those of us that needed to get off there. In the circumstances that were prevailing that night at Preston I had every sympathy for all involved, the bus drivers, the despatchers and the harrassed staff at Preston who were reacting in real time to IIRC a broken down train on top of planned diversions due to WCML work. I'm just glad that in this instance no one was on the bus as I was once involved in dealing with one such incident in Leeds where 2 schoolchildren on a school trip from Hull were killed adjacent to Holbeck shed. Jamie Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Butler Henderson Posted December 7, 2014 Share Posted December 7, 2014 Just another disaster of privatisation / deregulation. A local bus operator use to fulfill the replacement service, examples I encountered before the tories had their way were Leeds to Shipley West Yorkshire Roadcar, Loughborough to Nottingham South Notts and Nottingham to Grantham Gash. Just also occurred to that none of those long established bus operators exist today. Instead we have a system whereby First for example have the replacement bus contract for large parts of the country but due to not having enough spare vehicles, or no local depot, sub contract anyone from anywhere. There was a deroofing in Leeds a few years back of a virtually new bus on its way back to the depot, the driver taking a short cut forgetting he was not driving a single decker. Maybe what is needed is a forward height obstruction warning bit like a reversing warning. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium newbryford Posted December 7, 2014 RMweb Premium Share Posted December 7, 2014 They are running a rail replacement bus service replacement bus service now from what I hear... How about a rail replacement bus replacement rail service.......? (I know what I mean, it's just difficult to type.........) Cheers, Mick Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edwin_m Posted December 7, 2014 Share Posted December 7, 2014 I hope that the bus replacement, rail replacement service users a different route! I have witnessed a similar incident a few years back and the roof over top deck of the bus is made out fibre glass and it appear that it is design to shear off in the event of an impact with a low hanging structure or object. Why aren't buses and high lorries fitted with a Satnav that identifies low bridges as be money well spent and if it can be done for speed cameras why not low bridges? I've often wondered that too - certainly with trucks you would think that it would pay for itself in reduced insurance premiums, presuming that even with no injuries involved Network Rail would sue the haulier in question for the costs of disruption. A colleague in BR was encouraging the publishers of road atlases to include low bridge information back in the 90s, and this is the modern equivalent. Perhaps more difficult for buses since service vehicles don't normally carry satnavs but coaches and rail replacement buses probably do. I don't think a forward-looking radar could reliably tell the height of a bridge as the reading would change if the gradient of the road changed on approach, and by the time it was accurate it would be too late. There are a few places with height detectors that activate roadside variable message signs, but you have to wonder if the driver doesn't react to a bridge that is covered in yellow and black reflective strips whether they will react to anything. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Russ (mines a pint) Posted December 7, 2014 RMweb Gold Share Posted December 7, 2014 Some station's approaches are not public roads in the conventional road signage sense - there is a bridge in the approach road to Shipley station which doesnt (or didnt) have a height sign- but has a small and not immediately obvious unconventional sign which says 'double decker buses must not pass under this bridge' http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/e/e0/Bridge_TJC3-48B_-_Station_Approach,_Shipley_-_geograph.org.uk_-_641589.jpg - not the case in the OP obviously but it doesnt help! it is a recognised fact within the rail industry that rail-replacement buses are statistically more likely to do this for exactly the reasons Southernman suggests - unfamiliar routes in close proximity to railway lines. Plus the ad hoc nature of replacements when something goes wrong, rather than planned engineering? - its many yrs since I have had to do one as my previous company decided to not do them anymore - but my experience was that I was a spare driver and told to goto railway station and get instructions when I arrived, the railway staff just piled the passengers onto the bus it became obvious they hadnt thought about whether I should go via intermediate stations or not - they just wanted to get rid of the folks who were giving them grief.The potential for cockups is pretty obvious - railway staff not familiar with road approaches for some unstaffed stations, pcv drivers not being familiar with route etc. When the railway staff source replacement buses they may not be aware whether they are getting a decker/coach or whatever? They may be better organised these days? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Oldddudders Posted December 7, 2014 RMweb Gold Share Posted December 7, 2014 Russ (mines a pint), on 07 Dec 2014 - 21:19, said: railway staff not familiar with road approaches for some unstaffed stations, pcv drivers not being familiar with route etc. Not less than 30 years ago, Beckenham railway Control received a message that the Tilbury - Gravesend ferry across the Thames was temporarily being replaced by a bus. This news was sent out by the BR internal Telex (Teleprinter) system to all stations on the South Eastern Division. Not long afterwards, a station rang up to ask whether said bus was single-decker or double. "Why d'you wanna know that?" "Well - it's really quite deep in places, you know!" Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium ColinK Posted December 7, 2014 RMweb Premium Share Posted December 7, 2014 I drive buses and coaches part time and sometimes drive rail replacement services. There are two types of these, - planned replacement eg for planned engineering work. Normally you will know in advance where you have to go. But if you are a 'standby', you could be asked by the rail replacement supervisors to go anywhere - I don't know what would happen if the driver said 'no'especially in front of 50 already irate people. - unplanned replacement eg the wires have come down. Then its a case of the train operators (sometimes via First Rail Support) having to try and source buses and drivers with no notice. If a coach driver say 'yes' to some extra hours, the work might be in his/her local area, or you could be asked to go anywhere, in which case its up to the driver to plan the route and get everyone there. Would you like to say 'no, I'm not going there' in front of very stressed and irate rail passengers? Then when you are driving you are trying to find your way round an unfamiliar area, battle through todays appalling car drivers, thinking about your drivers hours rules, work out how you'll get back for your school run, all while some of the people you are helping out are giving you grief and hassle. If you've driven both single and double deck buses like I have, you will know it is very easy to forget what type of bus you are in as you have so many things to concentrate on. You take action to avoid a car cutting you up, a passengers distracts you, will that pedestrian on a mobile phone walk out in front of the bus, etc etc and you miss a sign and you are lost, stuck in a road blocked by badly parked cars or approaching a low bridge. For all the non bus/coach drivers reading this, pick a railway line about 50 miles from where you live. Now you have 5 minutes to plan a route to serve them all while your kids are jumping on you and shouting. Did you avoid all the weight limits, width restrictions, low trees, low bridges, low wires, pick up/set down at the right places, leave nobody behind and still be back home in time for the school run? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
EddieB Posted December 7, 2014 Share Posted December 7, 2014 Sorry, but the driver's action is completely unforgiveable. If he doesn't know that his bus won't fit under that bridge, then he shouldn't be driving. I gather he got a bit carried away driving a double decker. Thought he was Cliff Richard. So lost in song that he didn't notice the bridge. "Wirral going on a Summer Holiday". Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold beast66606 Posted December 7, 2014 RMweb Gold Share Posted December 7, 2014 Simple facts. It was actually a bus off repair on a test run - it had been used as a rail replacement earlier but at the time of the accident was not engaged in RR duties. The bridge that was hit was on an open part of the network and so had to be closed to allow engineers to check it - meaning rail replacement buses were used for a while. (About 4 hours I think) The road (St Pauls Road, Rock Ferry) is not used by buses - for obvious reasons. An investigation will ascertain why the bus was on the road. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fat Controller Posted December 7, 2014 Share Posted December 7, 2014 It's not just rail-replacement buses.. Back in the late 1960s/early 1970s, BR provided a staff bus between Port Talbot station and Margam Yard, the access to which was via a low bridge. If there was no suitable BR vehicle, then a Western Welsh single-decker would be hired. Alas, one day, Western Welsh only had double-deckers.... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium PhilJ W Posted December 7, 2014 RMweb Premium Share Posted December 7, 2014 Even James Bond 007 can't get it right. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
gismorail Posted December 7, 2014 Share Posted December 7, 2014 If this was a rail replacement service one would have thought that the driver should have been following a set route.!!!! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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