Tradesmen visiting the Railway Room

[RJS1977]

My parents will be having a new central heating boiler installed next year,which will involve a new flue and gas pipe being routed through the loft.

 

Fortunately any physical conflict between the pipes and layouts is minimal, however this will be the first time anyone's been in the loft outside of friends and family and I'm concerned there's a possibility either one or more locos may be slipped into a pocket/toolbag on the day or on a later "unofficial" visit - either by the workmen themselves or as a result of them saying to their colleagues "Hey - that house I was at yesterday had a big model railway in the loft..."

 

(Slightly untrusting I know,but the burglary they had at their last place may have been connected to the washing machine repair company they were using at the time,)

 

Obviously lofts contain a lot of equipment which needs maintaining by tradesmen (water tanks, electrics etc) so I would guess there must be others here who have had plumbers/gas engineers/electricians visit their railway rooms - what precautions have you taken? Obviously on the day,locos could be hidden or just an eye kept on the engineers but that still leaves the possibility of a return visit. 

[chris p bacon]

As a tradesman of 30+ years I'm a bit cheesed off with this assumption that  someone such as me entering your house to carry out a job is in some way a criminal and potential thief.

 

Over the years I have had tools and fixings taken by householders, it is no fun doing a job and then finding that with the loss of tools it has cost you more to do it than you received. I have come into contact with many dishonest householders but know of no dishonest tradesman.

 

 

If you are that worried I would suggest packing everything away.

 

As for the burglary and washing machine repair, last year we had a £30,000+ burglary and those that carry them out are more likely to be people who are known to you (friends/family/aquaintance) or a completely opportunistic scroat rather than the washing repair man.

[RJS1977]

Chris

 

No offence intended - all I'm saying is that I am wary of people I don't know well going into the railway room, especially given previous bad experience (though on that occasion it was general household items which were stolen rather than railway items). Of course not all tradesmen are crooks, but it only takes one, and it's better to be safe than sorry.

 

Richard

[HillsideDepot]

I can see why you might have a concern when someone you don't really know visits your layout room, but a tradesman needs a good reputation for his honesty as much as he does for his technical ability.

 

Is a tradesman likely have knowledge of the value of a trainset? To us it's a model railway, to them (and most of the population) it is probably just a trainset. If someone was so inclined they could slip something into their tool bag, sure, but what is its resale value without a box? Then is it worth the hassle to try to realise its worth, and there would be a high chance it'd get damaged in a tool bag.

In reality I think you should be more concerned about the dust which the work is likely to create and where it will settle. The chance of a tool being accidentally dropped on a model is almost certainly higher than the chance of a theft - and whilst accidents do happen, even that is remote.

You're going to have to trust the tradesman to fit the electrics safely, connect the gas properly, and at the garage check your brakes correctly, any of those instances is potential life or death trust, so theft or not of a model is, I would say, a much lower level of trust. 

[Enterprisingwestern]

To echo Dave's comments.

I'm sure if you express your concerns to the tradesmen, and tell them you think they are a thieving set of scumbags and you don't trust them as far as you throw them, they will fully understand and look forward to coming and doing the work.

I know I would.

 

Mike.

[Keith George]

There is another side to this coin.  I had a tradesman in to do some work and a lot of items went missing,  I called the police.

They went to his house found the items and arrested him

It turned out he had done this in  several other .homes he had done work on. He got a prison sentance.! 

There are thieves in all walks of life.

All tradesmen since have excellent.

 

Keith.

[kevinlms]

Do you have references/testimonials from the tradesmen that are coming?

 

While there is always a risk of dodgy tradesmen, the vast majority are honest.

 

Perhaps make a point of being there & just happen to mention, that the house has a good security system with cameras. Whether or not it does, is irrelevant. But since you have a bit of time, you could always install such a system, or even dummy cameras, that merely flash LED's.

 

Or perhaps suggest that the model items have been modified in some way (EM or P4?) and would be difficult to sell on eBay. Of course if one of them is a modeller, he might see through your lie & gamble on the security system being a lie too.

 

On the other hand, you might find a fellow enthusiast, who perhaps becomes a lifelong friend who helps you with your layout.

 

[ColinK]

I can understand your concern. We appointed two builders to convert our loft, after making all the sensible checks. However, they vanished leaving the job almost finished, then the building inspector came along and condemmed their work.

 

However, there are many tradesman you can trust.

[Oldddudders]

Disposing of secondhand model railway items in the back-room of a pub takes rather more effort than, say, an iPhone or tablet. "Fencing" your models may take a bit of doing, so I think risks are low, even if the tradesmen do have "friends".

[grahame]

You could always be in the loft at the same time, on the pretext of being there to move things if necessary or providing them with a nice cuppa tea, to keep an eye on them. But I'd have thought that if a tradesman has a propensity to 'alf inch any householder goodies they pocket something more valuable than a model train and a lot easier to fence, such as jewellery or cash.  

[kevinlms]

To echo Dave's comments.

I'm sure if you express your concerns to the tradesmen, and tell them you think they are a thieving set of scumbags and you don't trust them as far as you throw them, they will fully understand and look forward to coming and doing the work.

I know I would.

 

Mike.

Yes, then people say that they can't get good tradesmen, yeah they scare them off.

Another common complaint is that the tradesman should supply materials at cost, like they mysteriously appear in the vehicle, at the required time. No thought is given to the time taken to order & perhaps collect supplies/pay for delivery, or even that certain items may have been paid for a while back, for ready use. Not expensive items, but ones you need to carry a small stock of, because you don't want to be running off to the suppliers for each & every item. A modest mark up, is quite reasonable IMO, but not to rip off.

 

Even had one customer complain that I should have supplied them with a list in advance, so they could buy the items cheaper over the net. Not talking about major items, but consumable parts that were worth about $50 & I'd want them now, not 2 days later when they'd been posted to the customer. Of course, I supply trusted parts from known suppliers, not something from dodgy eBay sources. Some customers don't understand that poor quality components, usually mean going back to fix at no additional charge - no thanks.

 

In Australia, there has been a major recall of electrical cable, that the insulation disintegrates within 3-5 years and Cat5e/6 cable that instead of being copper, is copper coated aluminium and simply doesn't work. Great to find out, once its been installed inside roofs & ceilings. But not from my suppliers!

[kevinlms]

 

As for the burglary and washing machine repair, last year we had a £30,000+ burglary and those that carry them out are more likely to be people who are known to you (friends/family/aquaintance) or a completely opportunistic scroat rather than the washing repair man.

My brother used to live in a share flat. It had 3 large dogs living there too. Still got robbed, with dogs still left inside. Inside job or what?

[RJS1977]

 

 

As for the burglary and washing machine repair, last year we had a £30,000+ burglary and those that carry them out are more likely to be people who are known to you (friends/family/aquaintance) or a completely opportunistic scroat rather than the washing repair man.

 

The reason for suspecting that someone at the washing machine company may have been involved (not necessarily the repair man himself) is that when my mother called to book the appointment, she said "It needs to be done as soon as possible because we're going away next week." The person on the other end of the phone then yelled across their office for all to hear  "Can someone get round to ............. - they're going on holiday next week!"

 

So, the washing machine got fixed, we went away and got a phone call from our neighbours a few days later to say we'd had a break in. May have been coincidence of course.

 

 

 

 

As Hillside has mentioned the dust problem, maybe the simplest solution is just to sheet everything over.

[Red Devil]

Can't agree more with what Chris said, a little bit insulting. Yeah there's bad apples in any walk of life but I think you'll find that the vast majority are honest, a decent reputation is very important to most who work in other people's property, all that is required is a bit of common sense if you're worried about high value items then move them.

 

Having said that I once was in a property and went to make a cup of coffee as per my customers instruction to be met with the sight of £16k in 20 pound notes....it was in bundles so no I wasn't sat counting it! Guess what? It was still there when I locked up later.......

[chris p bacon]

So, the washing machine got fixed, we went away and got a phone call from our neighbours a few days later to say we'd had a break in. May have been coincidence of course.

 

 

 

 

As Hillside has mentioned the dust problem, maybe the simplest solution is just to sheet everything over.

For the burglary, I would say it had more to do with the house looking empty or someone nearby noticing suitcases etc going into a car.

 

As for covering the layout, a good idea but I would remove items of loose stock first . Something that I had on most contracts was that householders had to remove easily damaged items, when trying to work in someone's house nothing was harder than trying to avoid their personal items when you need space for materials and tools.

 

A popular thing a few years ago was skirting and dado change. Quoted for one job and when I arrived there was the biggest cabinet full of glass still in the lounge in the way, Householder said that her husband was too busy watching the football the previous evening to move it so I would have to do it, she finished the sentence with "if you break it you will have to pay or replace it" ! I packed up my tools and said they were better off getting someone else. She had the right hump!

[Red Devil]

Can't agree more with what Chris said, a little bit insulting. Yeah there's bad apples in any walk of life but I think you'll find that the vast majority are honest, a decent reputation is very important to most who work in other people's property, all that is required is a bit of common sense if you're worried about high value items then move them.

 

Having said that I once was in a property and went to make a cup of coffee as per my customers instruction to be met with the sight of £16k in 20 pound notes....it was in bundles so no I wasn't sat counting it! Guess what? It was still there when I locked up later.......

[kevinlms]

As Hillside has mentioned the dust problem, maybe the simplest solution is just to sheet everything over.

Thus drawing attention that it could be valuable?

[RJS1977]

Again, apologies for any offence caused.

 

The fact that most replies seem to be "nothing to worry about" is reassuring. Thank you.

 

Most of the rolling stock probably isn't that valuable (though you only have to see some of the prices asked for on Ebay to realise not everyone has the same idea of what something's worth) but some does have sentimental value either as mine or my father's first locos or items my father and I have constructed/modified ourselves - again, nothing particularly outstanding, but stuff I would be sad to lose. Ultimately if one 's models represent an investment in time then it is reasonable to take some precautions. Some years ago I took a part of my own layout to a show that was being held over two consecutive weekends. As I was travelling some distance by public transport, the organiser offered to house the layout in his garage for the intervening week. Whilst I had no concerns over the care he would take of it, it was still a relief to get it back the following Saturday!

[leopardml2341]

Sorry to be a harbinger of doom - but just in case the worst happens and items are damaged or stolen, it might be wise to check your insurance policies because some do not cover theft when someone has been 'invited into your property' (sic).

 

Better safe etc....

[DLT]

I would be rather more concerned about the possibility of accidental damage, with pipework etc being installed in cramped loft spaces.  Your best course of action would be to give the installer as uncluttered access as you can, to make his job easier and reduce his worries about damage.

 

Another issue to remember is that you are installing a gas appliance that will require servicing at regular intervals, so future access to it needs to be reasonably un-complicated!

I went through this a few years ago, I had to re-arrange half the railway room around a new boiler.

 

Hope this helps,

Good luck!

Dave.

['CHARD]

There is another side to this coin.  I had a tradesman in to do some work and a lot of items went missing,  I called the police.

They went to his house found the items and arrested him

It turned out he had done this in  several other .homes he had done work on. He got a prison sentance.! 

There are thieves in all walks of life.

All tradesmen since have excellent.

 

Keith.

I own up.

 

I'm not a tradesman, but I did visit that post and steal the word 'been' from the last line.

[RJS1977]

I would be rather more concerned about the possibility of accidental damage, with pipework etc being installed in cramped loft spaces.  Your best course of action would be to give the installer as uncluttered access as you can, to make his job easier and reduce his worries about damage.

 

Another issue to remember is that you are installing a gas appliance that will require servicing at regular intervals, so future access to it needs to be reasonably un-complicated!

I went through this a few years ago, I had to re-arrange half the railway room around a new boiler.

 

Hope this helps,

Good luck!

Dave.

 

That shouldn't be too much of an issue. The boiler itself is being installed in the airing cupboard so all that will be in the loft are the new flue and a replacement gas pipe (on the same course as the current one). For the most part, the layout runs along the other side of the loft so should be well out of the way, though some shelving units may possibly need to be relocated.

 

That said, the one board which is potentially in the way is (of course) the most complicated one....

[Vespa]

I think that the advice of making sure access is at it's best is your best route and covering things over to avoid dust and debris. Just tell them that the items covered are fragile. I doubt if they will be any bother or threat to your goods. You are very much like me in that your trust has marred in the past. I got a plumber to come to put new taps in my bathroom earlier in the year and he was absolutely brilliant and very careful. I also had double glazing fitted about 2 years ago and they covered everything up. They even refixed blinds and put in some new cills without charging any extra. They cleaned up every day all the mess made (minimal) and took it away. The outside paths were cleaned as they went along. I think if you get a reputable company you will have no trouble whatsoever.

[darrel]

I'm always amazed at the amount of people who post on Facebook bragging about how they are going on holiday and checking in on Facebook at the airport or the place they are on holiday. They might as well post "house is empty for a week help yourself"

[leopardml2341]

I own up.

 

I'm not a tradesman, but I did visit that post and steal the word 'been' from the last line.

We definitely need a 'groan' button...................