BR Jubilee name plate background colour?

[Dale]

Could anyone advise me on the background colour of the name plates carried by the Jubilee class under BR? Bachmann's model of Hong Kong has the back ground red but was this a standard for the class?

 

I have looked through all 3 of my books on the class but can't find any reference in the text and all of the pictures are B&W.

 

Many thanks

[great central]

There's a couple of shots of Jubilee nameplates in this video;

 

 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Puxlo1c29t4

 

First one around 2m 10s. It's in black and white, but given it was shot on a bright day, I would reckon the plates are black. Funny thing, I could have sworn the film was in colour! Can't say I recall seeing red backgrounds but it was over 50 years ago, I was only about 10!

 

Edit; Found a bit of colour film here;

 

http://www.annesleyfireman.com/id11.html

 

The 'Alberta at the Vic' one, don't be fooled by the 'sound' It's just a bit of generic loco sound (badly) edited in.

[ikks]

Hi Dale,

Could be either, I suspect it depends on the period and the locomotives you are modelling, in the book Working Steam, Stanier Jubilees it clearly shows both  e.g. 45596 & 45562 in 1966 red name and smoke box number plates, 45636 red nameplate 1960, 45632 red nameplate 1963, the majority however appear to be black, on page 79 there are four photos of nameplates 3 are black one is red which appears to confirm this. I don't know if it is still in print but it has some great shots of the Jubilees almost all in colour, well worth getting if you are interested in the class.

 

Rgds.....Mike

[Dale]

Thanks for the replies folks. I have just ordered the book Mike. A nice addition to my library.

 

D.

[Forester]

In general, the original (i.e. early crest) standard BR colour scheme was for green locos to carry black plates and lined black ones to carry red plates.

The late crest period lead to variations by different workshops. Red plates became common on green locos and black on lined black ones.

If you model BR early crest you will usually be safe with the standard scheme but if it's late crest, especially beyond about 1960, you need a dated photo to be certain.

[Norton961]

Not only did some locos acquire a red background but I am told that some of the Scottish Region allocation also had blue backgrounds, certaily photo evidence shows some A1 pacicics with blue backgrounds so I dare say somewhere colour pics do exist.

 

 

Attached is a nice picture of Hood I think at the time a Stockport engine clearly showing the red background.

 

I will have a look through my files for some more.

 

David

 

 

[Norton961]

Just had a quick check through my archive and it would appear that a lot of the Scottish Jubs had red backed nameplates.

My list includes of Jubs with red backed plates include 45693, 45697, 45705, 45714, 45715, 45718, 45729, 45730.

 

 

Attached is an LM Region based example which was based at Carlisle Kingmoor and then Carnforth before ending up at Warrington Dallam in June 1963.

 

David

[Lochinvar]

During the mid-late 50s,red backing was very common (if not universal) for those allocated to the Scottish Region (including Kingmoor). And I think I'm right in saying that there was a tendency for it to appear on other examples too (as,indeed, we have seen here) as the Jubes approached  the end of their working lives.

 

DR

[Dale]

I plan to renumber the Bachmann model of Hong Kong to 3 alternative guises but before I can order the name plates from Modelmaster I have to be sure on the colour of background.

 

45639 Raleigh on a 55A Holbeck Shed plate

45608 Gibraltar also on a 55A Holbeck shed plate

45697 Achillies on a 68A Carlise Kingmoor shed plate

 

It’s the very early 60’s

 

All of which were Crewe made engines with the short fire boxes and single piece boiler saddle so Hong Kong should be a suitable donor model.  i will have to sort out the tenders though...

 

Once I can get my hands on more Jubilee donor’s I will have Repulse, Hood, Warspite…  Where do you stop?

[Leander]

45730 also has 10 inch cabside numbers, very Scottish.

[pH]

45639 Raleigh on a 55A Holbeck Shed plate

45608 Gibraltar also on a 55A Holbeck shed plate

45697 Achillies on a 68A Carlise Kingmoor shed plate

 

It’s the very early 60’s

 

All of which were Crewe made engines with the short fire boxes ...

 

Sorry - 45697 had the long firebox. The change happened between (4)5664 and (4)5665, with a few earlier ones converted later.

[Dale]

Sorry - 45697 had the long firebox. The change happened between (4)5664 and (4)5665, with a few earlier ones converted later.

 

Pox, thats not the news I wanted to start my day  thanks for the heads up though.

 

I will have to find another suitable ship then, perhaps Renown?  45713 was at Kingmoor until 62, as was 45724 Warspite or perhaps 45654 Hood, she was at 19B Millhouses from 50-62 but would she have been changed?

 

All of them would be suitable renaming options as they were Crewe engines too but was there any naughty firebox changes on these beasties?

[Lochinvar]

As pH has explained above,you need to steer clear of any in the (4)5665 + range for any authentic re-naming of the present Bachmann model.  From your point of view,that rules out the warship names,unfortunately. Still plenty of "overseas territory" and some admiral names to choose from,though.

 

Some of us still live in the fond hope that Bachmann might one day treat us to the later long-firebox version. That would then open up a whole new range of options,including the warship names,plus - in appropriate cases - the larger St Rollox cabside numerals and red-backed nameplates.

 

DR

 

 

[Norton961]

A couple of colour photos of some more Jubs with red backed nameplates.As has been mentioned earlier some of the original Short Firebox locos subsequently received long fireboxes and I think from memory the Scottish ones were all Long Firebox to make the spare boiler at St Rollox the same as all the Scottish Jubs. This explaines why 45621 has a long firebox.

So this picture of 46521 was taken at Corkerhill in late 1957.

 

45718 was taken at St Rollox in 1958

 

45697 taken at Perth in 1959

 

The photos all show the various tenders fitted.

 

David

 

 

[pH]

 

As pH has explained above,you need to steer clear of any in the (4)5665 + range for any authentic re-naming of the present Bachmann model.  From your point of view,that rules out the warship names,unfortunately. Still plenty of "overseas territory" and some admiral names to choose from,though.

 

Remember, though, that many of the 'admiral' names (45639 - 45664) were also names of Royal Navy ships.

 

I will have to find another suitable ship then ... perhaps 45654 Hood, she was at 19B Millhouses from 50-62.

 

 

That is an example of both an admiral name and a warship name, which could suit you. Jubilees with 'admiral' names which were converted to long firebox condition were 45639/40/57. All the others retained short fireboxes.

[Dale]

So  45654 Hood may be an option to replace Achillies with then?  Short firebox, Crewe engine and given my layout is loosely based around Holbeck, a Millhouses engine would be a frequent visitor...

 

D.

[JeffP]

As would locos based at Bristol Barrow Road, 82E in the 60's.

[Dale]

As would locos based at Bristol Barrow Road, 82E in the 60's.

 

Were the barrow road lot not long firebox engines or am i dreaming?

 

D.

[pH]

Were the barrow road lot not long firebox engines or am i dreaming?

 

D.

Barrow Road's Jubilees were a mixture of short and long firebox engines, though the last few shedded there were all long firebox. The last short firebox engines to be transferred away lasted into your time period - "very early 1960s". 45572/77/651/60/62 left in September/October 1961. And there's an 'admiral/warship' name in there - 45662 'Kempenfelt'.

[Dale]

Barrow Road's Jubilees were a mixture of short and long firebox engines, though the last few shedded there were all long firebox. The last short firebox engines to be transferred away lasted into your time period - "very early 1960s". 45572/77/651/60/62 left in September/October 1961. And there's an 'admiral/warship' name in there - 45662 'Kempenfelt'.

 So Kempenfelt it is then.

 

My list for renaming now reads Raleigh, Gibralta and Kempenfelt.  Of course we still have to sort out the colour of the name boards.  From pictures i think raleigh was on black...

 

D.

[Norton961]

Sorry to put a damper on things but be carefully about Kempenfelt as it had a dome less boiler in its later days at Barrow Rd shed. It's nameplate was black, when it left Bristol it came to Shrewsbury where I used to see it regularly. I will post some pics of it later today.

 

David

[Norton961]

Kempenfelt was fitted with a domeless boiler on its last visit to Crewe works in 2-1961 and was transferred to Shrewsbury in 9-1961. If you base the model pre 1960 then the normal boilker was fitted. 4000gl welded tender.

The attached photo shows it at Derby sometime around 1960.

 

One of Bristols other Jubs was also named after a warship, 45699 Galatea, Long Firebox and welded tender.

 

I have also found a photo of 45611 Hong Kong showing its red backed nameplate.

 

David

[lyndonsdad1]

The nameplate off 45660 "Rooke" is red, i'll let you guess how I know?

[JeffP]

You painted it? LOL

[pH]

The nameplate off 45660 "Rooke" is red, i'll let you guess how I know?

You lucky person! I remember talking to someone who claimed to have 'reserved' one plate off each of Corkerhill's eleven Jubilees in anticipation of them being withdrawn (and given who he was, I believed him. Probably a private deal with the shedmaster.). Asking price? 7GBP each, and one of them was one of the only two double-lined Jubilee plates, off 45665.