B15nac Posted December 12, 2014 Share Posted December 12, 2014 Hello I've bought a wild boar model 45 ton Ransomes & Rapier crane an I'm trying to find out what one of these would of ran with in the 50,s an 60,s. I've not had much luck in finding out what tool vans or carriages would of made up the train. If anyone could spread some light on this it would be great. I've not really seen any good pictures of a western region breakdown train or the livery of the crane either so any info would be much appreciated. Many thanks Neil Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boris Posted December 12, 2014 Share Posted December 12, 2014 The Mid Hants one is preserved in BR black with the early BR crest which seems to have been how the western region painted their cranes in this period. The NYMR one is red as is the Cowans Sheldon one they have so it's a fair assumption that this is the colour the Eastern Region painted theirs during the period in question. As to riding/mess vehicles it seems to have been the norm that ex-passenger vehicles were used (brakes appear to have been popular) with some conversions such as plating over some windows etc. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnw1 Posted December 12, 2014 Share Posted December 12, 2014 The Mid Hants one is preserved in BR black with the early BR crest which seems to have been how the western region painted their cranes in this period. The NYMR one is red as is the Cowans Sheldon one they have so it's a fair assumption that this is the colour the Eastern Region painted theirs during the period in question. As to riding/mess vehicles it seems to have been the norm that ex-passenger vehicles were used (brakes appear to have been popular) with some conversions such as plating over some windows etc. ADW16 was black as late as 1977 when most other breakdown cranes seem to have been red https://www.flickr.com/photos/pics-by-john/6416907805/ On page 477 of Railway Breakdown Cranes Vol 2 by Peter Tatlow there is a diagram of the ideal arrangement for a LMS breakdown train and consists of crane + match wagon + 4 wheeled 3 plank open wagon (packing timber/spare chains) + bogie tool van (converted surplus passenger stock) + bogie travelling/mess/brake van (converted surplus passenger stock) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
B15nac Posted December 12, 2014 Author Share Posted December 12, 2014 Hi Thanks for the replys. Yes I bought both volumes of peter tatlow's excellent book in the hope to find some (WR) trains but couldn't really find any. Really good books though. Regards Neil Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
GBMRG Posted December 12, 2014 Share Posted December 12, 2014 Hello. I wonder if you've had a look through this site? http://www.bdca.org.uk/index.html Kind regards, GBMRG Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordon A Posted December 12, 2014 Share Posted December 12, 2014 The GWR had a couple of specially built bogie tool and mess coaches which lasted into BR. I believe one is preserved at Tysley. They also had long wheel base four wheel mess and tool vans, again not modified revenue stock but specifically designed for the job. Gordon A Bristol Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black Sheep Posted December 12, 2014 Share Posted December 12, 2014 I always presumed, until BR standardisation brakedown trains were put together out of available vehicles and kept Tool vans converted from old coaching stock etc As I look into it more, more work appears to have been done on them than that Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold 96701 Posted December 13, 2014 RMweb Gold Share Posted December 13, 2014 Brake coaches were popular simply because they have handbrakes in them. It's no good leaving coaches lying around without handbrakes. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lancer1027 Posted December 22, 2014 Share Posted December 22, 2014 Hi Neil, I am modelling the Laira Breakdown train in 7mm but its during the late 60's early 70's. The crane was black as one of the previous posts show. But onto the support vehicles. This is my scratch built tool van which Paul Bartlett has a pic of at Reading that i used to help me build this. This is a pic of both of the support coaches. Copyright is Tail lamp photography. ( i have used only for modelling purposes ) This also shows the staff coach. But i have also found from some pics in books showing a Hawksworth tender also painted in red livery, which i guess would be attatched to the train if the crane was going to be on site for any length of time and required alot more coal. There was also a six wheel milk tank converted and used to carry water also for the crane again painted red. Im not sure if this really helps as this info maybe too late for you. But its great to know others are out there interested in WR 45ton Ransome & Rapier steam crane.. I also believe that the Laira crane is actually still in one piece at the Flour Mill Workshops , Forest of Dean. However this is too far for me to travel to and get some pics for when i scratch build the crane. Rob Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Siberian Snooper Posted December 22, 2014 RMweb Premium Share Posted December 22, 2014 That van may be on the Plym Valley Railway, certainly a van that looked like that turned up in the early day's when I was involved with them. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
B15nac Posted December 22, 2014 Author Share Posted December 22, 2014 Hi Neil, I am modelling the Laira Breakdown train in 7mm but its during the late 60's early 70's. The crane was black as one of the previous posts show. But onto the support vehicles. This is my scratch built tool van which Paul Bartlett has a pic of at Reading that i used to help me build this. DSCN0883.JPG This is a pic of both of the support coaches. Copyright is Tail lamp photography. ( i have used only for modelling purposes ) Breakdown coaches - Copy.jpg This also shows the staff coach. But i have also found from some pics in books showing a Hawksworth tender also painted in red livery, which i guess would be attatched to the train if the crane was going to be on site for any length of time and required alot more coal. There was also a six wheel milk tank converted and used to carry water also for the crane again painted red. Im not sure if this really helps as this info maybe too late for you. But its great to know others are out there interested in WR 45ton Ransome & Rapier steam crane.. I also believe that the Laira crane is actually still in one piece at the Flour Mill Workshops , Forest of Dean. However this is too far for me to travel to and get some pics for when i scratch build the crane. Rob Hi rob Thanks for your help on this! I wonder if they used this tool van in the early 60's? I'm guessing they did just maybe it was black. Yes I'm fascinated by this subject an how it's very hard to find out what was used or find pictures of them. I have a soft spot for railway cranes! That's a lovely model you have built! Wish I had that skill to scratch build. Thanks everyone for your replys all very useful. The search goes on! Kind regards Neil Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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