jimikelly Posted December 12, 2014 Share Posted December 12, 2014 I know really ,heard it all before ,so so boring !! BUT I STUCK !!!! how do I wire 2 points ,1 from the UP line to 1 on the DOWN line ,it works the now using metal rail connectors ,but them Im only using a test DC power unit ,I really want to go down the DCC road and Iv put drop wires every so often through the base board ...so my question is do I have to put PLASTIC rail connectors between the 2 points ,or wouldI be OK with the metal ones if I was just to stay with DC power . Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium MickD Posted December 12, 2014 RMweb Premium Share Posted December 12, 2014 Hi, You must put isolated joiners between the points or you will get a dead short, doesn't matter whether its DC or DCC they must be isolated. MickD. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimikelly Posted December 12, 2014 Author Share Posted December 12, 2014 Ok so where do I put the Plastic rail connectors .I have power feeds going to the outside rail and neg to the inner ,where the 2 points meet do I put the plastic joints Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
gordon s Posted December 12, 2014 Share Posted December 12, 2014 This is a very good site that provides the basics and more…. http://www.brian-lambert.co.uk/Electrical.html Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
YK 50A Posted December 12, 2014 Share Posted December 12, 2014 Hi, You must put isolated joiners between the points or you will get a dead short, doesn't matter whether its DC or DCC they must be isolated. MickD. Hi, Please correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't that just apply live frog (Electrofrog) points or DC if you've got the 2 lines on separate circuits? The OP doesn't state whether the points are live or dead frog, but he does say he wants to go down the DCC route. Alun Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimikelly Posted December 12, 2014 Author Share Posted December 12, 2014 Hi guys I sorry I didn't state which points I'm using .they are Insulfrog points Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doughnut Posted December 12, 2014 Share Posted December 12, 2014 Hi, Please correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't that just apply live frog (Electrofrog) points or DC if you've got the 2 lines on separate circuits? The OP doesn't state whether the points are live or dead frog, but he does say he wants to go down the DCC route. Alun Yes, the plastic rail-joiners are only needed if the two points that are being connected together are Electrofrog points. If the OP has normal Insulfrog points, you can join them with normal fishplates. Dave Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimikelly Posted December 12, 2014 Author Share Posted December 12, 2014 Dave can I just ask you what is a OP Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
YK 50A Posted December 12, 2014 Share Posted December 12, 2014 Yes, the plastic rail-joiners are only needed if the two points that are being connected together are Electrofrog points. If the OP has normal Insulfrog points, you can join them with normal fishplates. Dave Thanks, although I should add, as I wrote above, if the tracks linked by the crossover are on separate circuits it's advisable to use insulated joiners between the points. From personal experience, it can cause the controllers to work against (or with) each other. If moving from one circuit to the other, put both controllers on a similar setting or use cab control. Otherwise, just put your insulated fishplates in the spares box! Alun Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
YK 50A Posted December 12, 2014 Share Posted December 12, 2014 Dave can I just ask you what is a OP Original/opening post/poster! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doughnut Posted December 12, 2014 Share Posted December 12, 2014 Dave can I just ask you what is a OP You.....the Original Poster...OP Dave Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimikelly Posted December 12, 2014 Author Share Posted December 12, 2014 This is how Iv wired the track so far and have I got it wrong Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
gordon s Posted December 12, 2014 Share Posted December 12, 2014 Reverse the positive and negative on the bottom (or top) pair of tracks. If you reverse the bottom pair, the polarities should read from the top as + then - then + then -. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimikelly Posted December 12, 2014 Author Share Posted December 12, 2014 Iv done what you said Gordon .but Iv kept the plastic joiners in as well is this right.so its { positive -neg - post -neg ect } is that right Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
YK 50A Posted December 12, 2014 Share Posted December 12, 2014 It's easily over complicated, but with dead frog points and DCC use live fishplates, using insulated ones won't do any harm, but are unnecessary. For positive and negatives just keep all running lines the same (both bottom tracks positive and both higher tracks negative or vice versa), but it's good to stick to one or the other for future wiring. As I used second hand points, I put droppers on the crossovers so I wasn't relying on the switches in the points, just follow the tracks from the running lines to easily work out which ones are positive and negative. Alun Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimikelly Posted December 12, 2014 Author Share Posted December 12, 2014 thanks for all your replys ,its funny I can easily do most things on my layout But wiring I just cant get my head round it so thanks very much guys for all your input Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium BR60103 Posted December 13, 2014 RMweb Premium Share Posted December 13, 2014 Jimi: How is the rest of the layout arranged? does your double track go to a loop so that the ends of the crossover are connected? (Is that why you show the inner rails as -ve?) Then you have a bigger problem. But if your tracks just run parallel you just need to switch one set of feeds. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimikelly Posted December 13, 2014 Author Share Posted December 13, 2014 My layout is a double parallel but iv incorporated a few crossovers so that I can take a loco from a siding and put it on the up line or down line does this make sense { ie --- in the station I have a siding for a multi-unit } which will enter from the up line ,so then via the crossover goes back via the down line Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimikelly Posted December 14, 2014 Author Share Posted December 14, 2014 I have been busy re-wiring my drop lines ,and NOW find a new problem .on the layout I have a spur line so to speak coming off the up line crossing over and joining the down line further down its length ,but it will be opposite polarity { ie now the positive will join on to the negative line } so what do I do now ,I have put insulating rail joiners to the joint end to the point will this be enough remember I,m using insul frogs Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Chimer Posted December 14, 2014 RMweb Premium Share Posted December 14, 2014 I have been busy re-wiring my drop lines ,and NOW find a new problem .on the layout I have a spur line so to speak coming off the up line crossing over and joining the down line further down its length ,but it will be opposite polarity { ie now the positive will join on to the negative line } so what do I do now ,I have put insulating rail joiners to the joint end to the point will this be enough remember I,m using insul frogs Sorry, but if you've rewired consistently as you said you were going to, so the inside rails of each circuit are positive and the outside rails negative (or vice versa), then unless you have created a reversing loop (which introduces completely different issues), you simply can't have this problem as you describe it. If you haven't rewired and do have the problem, insulating rail joiners won't help. As soon as a loco bridges across the joiners, you'll have a short. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimikelly Posted December 15, 2014 Author Share Posted December 15, 2014 Hi Chimer , I have installed insulating rail joins on a reversing loop but after looking into it Im going to install a reverse loop unit Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
YK 50A Posted December 15, 2014 Share Posted December 15, 2014 I have been busy re-wiring my drop lines ,and NOW find a new problem .on the layout I have a spur line so to speak coming off the up line crossing over and joining the down line further down its length ,but it will be opposite polarity { ie now the positive will join on to the negative line } so what do I do now ,I have put insulating rail joiners to the joint end to the point will this be enough remember I,m using insul frogs Sorry, but if you've rewired consistently as you said you were going to, so the inside rails of each circuit are positive and the outside rails negative (or vice versa), then unless you have created a reversing loop (which introduces completely different issues), you simply can't have this problem as you describe it. If you haven't rewired and do have the problem, insulating rail joiners won't help. As soon as a loco bridges across the joiners, you'll have a short. Quite! As per my post above, don't let anyone, including yourself, overcomplicate things. As Chimer writes, unless you have created a reversing loop (imagine a dumbbell shape on the end of your running line resulting in the train returning in the opposite direction on the same piece of track), with DCC and insul-frog points it really is not at all difficult and you don't need to isolate anything. If it helps, literally run your fingers along the positive and negative tracks and how they proceed over the switch and stock rails of the points, onto your spur and back across the next set of points onto the other running line. The positive track should stay just that, as should the negative. Alun Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
YK 50A Posted December 15, 2014 Share Posted December 15, 2014 Hi Chimer , I have installed insulating rail joins on a reversing loop but after looking into it Im going to install a reverse loop unit Apologies, we posted simultaneously. In my opinion, a reverse loop unit is the only way to go if a reverse loop is what you have installed. Alun Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimikelly Posted December 15, 2014 Author Share Posted December 15, 2014 It is guys I had to add a reverse loop as I worked out that my layout was only going round in a circle and if I wanted my up line loco to come back and onto the down line I had to add this and so ,I have put 2 insulating joints at both ends of the loop and then I will attach a reverse unit as I do plan to go down the DCC route although Im working with an old DC unit just now .LETS SEE WHAT SANTA BRINGS ho ! ho ! ho !.. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium BR60103 Posted December 16, 2014 RMweb Premium Share Posted December 16, 2014 For a cheap fix before you get the reversing unit, you can install a normal DPDT reversing switch and flip it manually when the train is in the section. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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