class37418stag Posted December 16, 2014 Share Posted December 16, 2014 Hello everyone In 1980s to 1997 traffic services limited polybulk has running on uk mainline by what kind of materials carry Because I have one but only I know only grain and China clay carry by use polybulk wagon and any more materials carry? Please give any information about polybulk wagon carry what materials Thank you Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boris Posted December 16, 2014 Share Posted December 16, 2014 Pretty much what you've already said: grain, china clay, crushed stone. Things that are fairly small (powders and small crushed stones) to be carried in bulk. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
GordonC Posted December 16, 2014 Share Posted December 16, 2014 Were the grain ones not longer than the Bachmann modelled ones? Presumably lower weight density so the wagons could be bigger for the same weight on the bogies. Not sure the ones as available RTR ever carried grain Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fat Controller Posted December 16, 2014 Share Posted December 16, 2014 Were the grain ones not longer than the Bachmann modelled ones? Presumably lower weight density so the wagons could be bigger for the same weight on the bogies. Not sure the ones as available RTR ever carried grain The ones that worked to Switzerland were back-loaded to Pinhoe, near Exeter, with grain for animal feed when the service first started running. The wagon body is divided into five compartments internally; when loaded with clay, only the centre three would be filled, but if loading a less-dense commodity, then all the compartments would be loaded. The ones that were purpose-built for grain were considerably longer. Amongst commodities carried in the type represened by the R-T-R one have been;_ sand for glass-making burnt lime for glass and steel manufacture urea prills for resin manufacture patent fuel and petroluem coke potash salt Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hmrspaul Posted December 16, 2014 Share Posted December 16, 2014 When we visited York British sugar they mentioned receiving sugar from France in some version of Polybulk - they remembered because it was yellow and had to be reprocessed! Paul Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
class37418stag Posted December 17, 2014 Author Share Posted December 17, 2014 Polybulk carry lime for steel . Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boris Posted December 17, 2014 Share Posted December 17, 2014 Polybulk carry lime for steel . Yes, they carried burnt lime for use in the steel making process, you may know it as calcium oxide or quicklime, and its used in basic steel making. I have linked to an image search for some pictures of it for you. https://uk.images.search.yahoo.com/search/images;_ylt=A9mSs2W4e5FULD0A5ohLBQx.?p=burnt+lime&fr=yfp-t-903&fr2=piv-web Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fat Controller Posted December 17, 2014 Share Posted December 17, 2014 Yes, they carried burnt lime for use in the steel making process, you may know it as calcium oxide or quicklime, and its used in basic steel making. I have linked to an image search for some pictures of it for you. https://uk.images.search.yahoo.com/search/images;_ylt=A9mSs2W4e5FULD0A5ohLBQx.?p=burnt+lime&fr=yfp-t-903&fr2=piv-web They still do carry it; GBRf operate a service from Hardendale to Teesside:- https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishswissernie/8453524942/in/set-72157628773150667 The livery is different (all-over dark grey), and the wagons are owned by VTG, but they're the same ones used on the clay services almost 40 years ago. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
40044 Posted December 17, 2014 Share Posted December 17, 2014 Hardendale - Redcar hasn't been hauled by GBRf for a while. Not sure if DBS or FLHH operate it with different wagons or if it goes by road, but the Polybulks are in store at Lackenby. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Irishswissernie Posted December 18, 2014 Share Posted December 18, 2014 Hardendale - Redcar hasn't been hauled by GBRf for a while. Not sure if DBS or FLHH operate it with different wagons or if it goes by road, but the Polybulks are in store at Lackenby. Freightliner appeared to take over this flow running only one train a week of approx 20 HIA (I think ) wagons as opposed to the GBRF twice weekly 8 polybulks set. It may well still be running but not at a time when I am walking the dogs at Haltwhistle! Ernie Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fat Controller Posted December 18, 2014 Share Posted December 18, 2014 Freightliner appeared to take over this flow running only one train a week of approx 20 HIA (I think ) wagons as opposed to the GBRF twice weekly 8 polybulks set. It may well still be running but not at a time when I am walking the dogs at Haltwhistle! Ernie Is there still a flow of crushed limestone from one of the Cumbrian quarries to Lackenby? When we lived near the Newcastle and Carlisle, there used to be two separate flows; one of limestone (using the hoppers that had previously worked from Redmire) for the blast furnaces, the other of burnt lime in covered hoppers for the Basic Oxygen steel plant. I recollect EWS/DBS bought at least one of these fleets, presumably in the hope of tying Corus/Tata to them. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stoker Posted December 19, 2014 Share Posted December 19, 2014 The ones that worked to Switzerland were back-loaded to Pinhoe, near Exeter, with grain for animal feed when the service first started running. The wagon body is divided into five compartments internally; when loaded with clay, only the centre three would be filled, but if loading a less-dense commodity, then all the compartments would be loaded. All due respect, as you may just be regurgitating information from elsewhere, but the information you've posted here is unfortunately total bunk. The polybulk used for clay is (was) divided into 3 compartments internally, not 5, moreover there was no such weight restriction, the wagons were perfectly capable of carrying a full load of clay. Moreover, dried china clay is not more dense than grain; with the exception of oats, grain is generally around 45lbs per cubic foot. Pelletized dry china clay also happens to be around 45lbs per cubic foot. The differences between the wagons used for grain and the wagons used for clay were more to do with the flow characteristics of grain, and the other intended uses of the clay-carrying polybulk wagons (IE heavier mineral and chemical products). Further, the clay polybulks would not have been permitted to carry both food and industrial mineral non-food products in regular traffic without an official change in designation literally every time their cargo changed, nor would china clay customers have permitted the contamination risk, and the internal cleanout that would've been required would've left the wagon wet which would've rendered it unsuitable for dried clay traffic until it had dried. To further emphasise, grain carrying wagons are unsuitable for clay due to the loading hatches, and likewise clay carrying wagons are unsuitable for grain due to the grain becoming lodged in the loading hatches that aren't designed to handle kernels. In short, the "backloading" shipments never happened, they were a figment of someone's overactive imagination, or a simple confusion between the two polybulk flows, both of which would've started to come through Exeter around the same time. They were both called Polybulk wagons, so it's easy to imagine how the two got confused. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
davefreight Posted December 20, 2014 Share Posted December 20, 2014 Although the notion that the same wagons were being backloaded, carrying china clay east and grain west, is a little far fetched given the amount of cleaning out that would have been involved, there is no doubt that the fleet of E. 431 Polybulks were indeed designed to be capable of handling both grain and china clay and did in fact, at least for a brief period, do so. However, volatility in the international grain market meant that those British registered Polybulks initially allocated to the cross-channel grain movement were soon redeployed onto domestic grain flows such as the movement from East Anglia to Birkenhead. Pool 0392 TSL Polyvalent Grain/China Clay Studying pool and train lists would suggest that between 50 and 60 of the 65 strong batch were in china clay traffic with the rest in grain, most of the imported grain being carried in Belgian 'slab-sided' Polybulks. (so not quite 'total' bunk!) Davefreight Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fat Controller Posted December 20, 2014 Share Posted December 20, 2014 I recollect that the article that mentioned the back-loading with feed-wheat (I suspect it was in a contemporary 'Modern Railways', which is usually more reliable than the enthusiast press) stated that the back-loading was abandoned after a short while, as the exigencies of cleaning to meet the demands of ECLP actually reduced wagon productivity. This was all at the very beginning of the Polybulk saga, in 1974 or so, so long before any of the purpose-built grain Polybulks ( first introduced 1979/80, IIRC) were in use. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
davefreight Posted December 20, 2014 Share Posted December 20, 2014 Quite so Brian. Although I do not recall seeing a 'Modern Railways' reference there is mention of the intention to backload in one of two brief news items about the French grain traffic that appeared in the 'Railway Magazine' for November and December 1974. The first completely railbourne consignment of French maize reached Pinhoe, near Exeter, from Lavaur, near Toulouse, on 28 August, 1974 and may well have been the train that Paul Bartlett saw at Castle Cary (see his article 'The Polybulks' which appeared in the September 1989 issue of 'Model Railways' magazine). My understanding from the first of the RM reports is that this initial train comprised 22 Belgium registered Polybulks but some of the recently built British registered Polybulks certainly worked alongside them to Pinhoe, at least for a short time. An unattributed source has the Pinhoe traffic ending completely in 1977, having been in decline for several months prior, although whether any of the E.431 British registered Polybulks were still in that working by that date seems a moot point. As I mentioned earlier by then a handful could be found working in domestic grain traffic from East Anglia to Birkenhead. The latest evidence I have for the use of the E.431 Polybulks in domestic grain traffic was when 21 70 0999 037-5 and 21 70 0999 047-4 were photographed in Ellesmere Port yard when en route to Spillers at Birkenhead in April 1982. A Railfreight brochure from 1976 includes mention of the three Polybulk batches then available; the British registered batch to diagram E.431, the Belgian registered wagons to diagram E.442, and the less common French registered batch to diagram E.453 with brief details of each. (Note the upper-case is found in the brochure.) E. 431 Five/Three-hopper wagon. Three hoppers lined with food grade enamel. Suitable especially for CHINA CLAY and GRAIN. 57.3 tonnes 70/51 cu.m E. 442 Three-hopper wagon, unlined. Suitable especially for GRAIN and PLASTICS. 58.5 tonnes 95 cu.m E. 453 Five-hopper wagon. Lined with food grade enamel. Suitable especially for SUGAR and GRAIN. 56.8 tonnes 80 cu.m The Polybulk wagon modelled by Bachmann did indeed carry grain, both for animal and human consumption. Davefreight Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hmrspaul Posted December 21, 2014 Share Posted December 21, 2014 Sorry I just cannot quote or copy anything using this computer (only a problem on RMWeb). Anyway, the Castle Cary train is partially illustrated in the Belgium Polybulk collection on my site, taken 28/08/1975 when they appeared to be very new. These flat sided Diag E442 were also in grain traffic at Sandy 12/10/1976. Paul Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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