How important is a fiddle yard?

[topsy11]

Hello.

 

I've pretty much got my layout sorted in terms of how I want it all set out and laid a fair amount of track.

 

I've built a 15ft x 9ft layout in my loft which features to main loops with the main feature being a 7ft x 2ft container yard on a lower level.

 

I only have a Virgin 221 and a Class 37 loco at the moment with around 20 wagons.

 

The max lengths I will be running are 1 loco plus 8 large (container wagon/100t tank wagons). Without going in to block sections I can fit...

 

1 train on each loop

 

2 DMU's in the station sidings

 

2 trains in the container terminal

 

2 trains in the TMD sidings

 

I can also fit 12 loco's in the various sidings which form part of the TMD/refuelling station.

 

So realistically I can have 8 fully formed trains on the layout (obviously not all moving at once) along with several locos, should that be enough for now? The layout will only ever be operated by myself and I don't plan on having hundreds of different train/wagon combo's.

 

If I had the room I wouldn't even start this thread and just build one but I'm struggling a little on fitting one in and having any access to it.

 

Thanks for any thoughts/comments.

 

 

[Neal Ball]

Try experimenting... see what suits your style of operation and build it in such a way that it can be altered...

 

The convention suggests a fiddle yard of one sort or another... 

 

Think for the future - how long will that layout last and how many locos / carriages / freight wagons will you have at that point.... 

 

Basically plan for tomorrow, not today. Hope that helps and good luck with it.

 

Neal.

[DCB]

The fiddle yard is the rest of BR, normally trains are only removed from the layout in the fiddle yard area,  Sometimes it is just a table with interchangeable cassettes, though I.m not too keen on 8 foot long cassettes to hold a loco and 7 OO coaches.

 My loft layout has a series of hidden inaccessible loops rather than somewhere you can remove or add coaches or wagons but it does represent the rest of BR and is accessible from both up and down lines of the visible layout.  Actually I can't work out how to wire it up, but eventually there will be 5 short and 6 long loops and trains will be able to leave any of the loops run round either clockwise or anticlockwise round the visible layout and return to the same or any other loop.  It probably needs DCC though I doubt DCC would really cope. 

The previous layout had dead end sidings, with 3" or so overhead clearance under the visible level it was about 55 inches above floor level.  The outer No1 road was accessible so all trains arrived in road 1, with goods trains the brake van was lifted off and  a new engine attached to the back which pulled the train out the brake van reattached and the train set back into one of the other roads, it was on a 1 in 35 gradient so reversing trains back round reverse curves into the other roads was no hassle 

My garden line has no hidden sidings, and is a bit of a pain as there is nowhere to hide anything so I pretend it is on the Isle of Skye, rather unconvincingly, so really yes, I tink a fiddle yard, cassette, hidden loops or something is essential to get a sense that trains go somewhere.

[Black Sheep]

Depends what you run and how you run it.

 

I seem to be highlighting Frankland a lot lately, south London intensive passenger running but no fiddle yard. Passenger trains held in station, goods in a loop here and there and it works due to the track plan.

 

Loops and holding sidings are prototypical and essentially visible fiddle yards!

 

Having a loco stabling / fuel point would allow swapping of locos if that's what you want to do.

 

I've seen on another forum someone had built 2 rail ferries to work as fiddle yard cassettes.

[Joseph_Pestell]

Rule 1 applies: It's your layout. If you are content without any hidden sidings/loops to represent the rest of the rail network, then no point in giving yourself a headache trying to put them in. Take a look at many of the plans in, for example, CJ Freezer's books. Loads there with no fiddleyard.

 

The US solution (usually known as staging) is to have loops that are scenicked.

 

From what you write, I gain the impression that you have already built much of the layout. The usual solution would be to start with the fiddleyard/loops at a lower level and then have a gradient up to the visible part of the layout. That would not be easy to achieve now but might be possible using threaded rod down from the main baseboard to support a ply base below.

[woodenhead]

There are plenty of examples out there of very good layouts without a hidden fiddleyard.

 

As long as you have somewhere to hold your trains, either in loops or perhaps small yards you will be fine.

 

You can have a small double ended yard for freight and some sidings for passenger vehicles to stable and you are all set.

 

Look at Sheffield Midland or Barrow for examples of passenger stabling sidings, for the freight just a few through sidings is all you need or some loops in your station, a good example might be Bristol Parkway.

[Karhedron]

Fiddle yards are convenient because they met a couple of needs that most layouts have, principally storing extra stock when not in use. If your layout plan meets your needs without the use of a fiddle yard then feel free to discard it.

[jon_1066]

What is the purpose of the fiddle yard?

 

1. To store stock

2. To make up new trains

3. To give a source and destination for trains to run to and from

 

The last sounds like the crux of your problem.  If you want to run a timetable or give those DMUs somewhere to go to and come from then some type of fiddleyard may be in order.  Perhaps compromise with a a cassette connection for the DMUs and light engine moves?

[Black Sheep]

What is the purpose of the fiddle yard?

 

1. To store stock

2. To make up new trains

3. To give a source and destination for trains to run to and from

4. To keep PECO in business by using more points than the rest of your layout

 

You missed one

[Chimer]

I think a couple of your issues discussed in earlier threads have been complicated by not having a fiddle yard - for example, a train runs into your container yard, then comes out running in the other direction  - so now you need to reverse it before it can go into the yard again.  Similarly when a train leaves one of your bay platforms it has to reverse to return there.  These reversals can be achieved in the open using run round loops - but it's more realistic for the watcher if they happen "out of sight".  In my opinion, that is .....