Opti hesitation

[Star-rider]

When starting out in DCC I purchased a number of budget-end decoders to experiment with, among these were some Gaugemaster Opti decoders which for the price paid I was happy enough to snip the plugs off and hard-wire into my split chassis Manors.

 

Generally they run reasonably smoothly and will run a full circuit of my largish layout without  the intervention of my finger, however they have a bit of an annoying trait; They both frequently but briefly “hesitate” at certain points, particularly on the few remaining insulated frogs etc that remain on the layout. It is as if they momentarily become adrift of the digital signal that they should be receiving and pause to think about their next move.

 

I also have a more recent model Pannier with conventional chassis to which I fitted an Opti direct-plug decoder, this also seems to behave in the same way. As it was easier to do so in this loco I managed to shoe-horn in a Bachman 36-553 decoder and it now runs perfectly well.

 

Has anyone else experienced the same with Opti decoders and if so is there a quick fix among the CVs that may cure it?

 

Thanks.

[Crosland]

insulated frogs etc

 

There's the problem.

 

The only CV change is to make sure acceleration is disabled, but I doubt it will fix anything.

 

Make sure all of the loco wheels have working pickups.

 

Andrew

[250BOB]

When you say the loco hesitates at certain points, that should tell you to look at the track in those places. Or if it's just the one loco that hesitates in those places, then its a combination of track and loco pick ups.

Doubt it's the decoder, although there are better decoders, but even those won't cure your problem.

Bob

[Star-rider]

Thanks for the replies both.

 

The track is certainly clean enough and everything else seems to be passing over it OK.

 

I spent a bit more time with one of the Manors this afternoon and took a cotton bud soaked in meths to the wheels, next to nothing came away. I also checked and lubricated where the axles bear on the chassis block, there is good pick-up on all wheels from the old brush and scraper.

 

No joy with turning of the acceleration unfortunately, a reset of the decoder to clear anything that I may have put in by mistake has also proved unproductive.

 

The fact that it is a hesitation rather than a stall still makes me think it is a decoder issue. If there was a lack of power due to track or pick-ups I cant see why it would start off again after its momentary pause.

 

It's time to decide now on either buying an upmarket decoder (that will probably cost as much as the locos did new) or resigning myself to the fact that these split chassis locos have had their time.

 

Anyone had good results from any particular (small) decoder with split chassis designs?

 

Cheers,

 

Pete.

[250BOB]

Thanks for the replies both.

 

The track is certainly clean enough and everything else seems to be passing over it OK.

 

I spent a bit more time with one of the Manors this afternoon and took a cotton bud soaked in meths to the wheels, next to nothing came away. I also checked and lubricated where the axles bear on the chassis block, there is good pick-up on all wheels from the old brush and scraper.

 

No joy with turning of the acceleration unfortunately, a reset of the decoder to clear anything that I may have put in by mistake has also proved unproductive.

 

The fact that it is a hesitation rather than a stall still makes me think it is a decoder issue. If there was a lack of power due to track or pick-ups I cant see why it would start off again after its momentary pause.

 

It's time to decide now on either buying an upmarket decoder (that will probably cost as much as the locos did new) or resigning myself to the fact that these split chassis locos have had their time.

 

Anyone had good results from any particular (small) decoder with split chassis designs?

 

Cheers,

 

Pete.

 

Try the decoder in a loco you know works well...if the problem transfers with the decoder, then thats the problem.

 

Also, try fitting a known good decoder into the loco that is currently hesitant.

 

Its a process of elimination.

[Star-rider]

Another frustrating day with the Manor.

 

I realised that the Opti had a 9 pin JST harness so to save having to undo my hard-wiring I purchased a TCS T1a decoder and slipped that in.

 

No change to behaviour unfortunately. The loco continues to go along nicely, but will the pause for a moment and often (but not always) restart and go about its business.

 

I started to wonder how good my soldering was – I had had to extend the wires from the Opti to reach the motor terminals at the other end of the loco so I went out this morning and picked up a 5” JST harness. The manor was disassembled again and the new harness wired in and the loco rebuilt.

 

The wheel hubs and the chassis block where they bear have been cleaned up with a wire brush in a mini drill, but still no improvement.

 

I’m fairly sure that my track is reasonable, my 0-6-0 panniers and 56XX tank seem to cope with it OK. Even cleaning down my two yard long service track with the track rubber followed by a wipe down with meths still give the Manor trouble.

 

So finally here are the questions:

 

Is the TCS decoder I have just bought just a branded version of the Opti (they look very similar)?

Is it worth buying a more “upmarket” decoder (bearing in mind I will have to cut off the 8-pin making it less use elsewhere)?

If so, is there anything that will fit the 9 pin JST to save yet another re-wire.

Is there a compact decoder available with a stay-alive facility built in (there is very little room)?

What are you guys using successfully in split chassis models?

 

Further advice appreciated.

 

Pete.

[250BOB]

Another frustrating day with the Manor.

 

I realised that the Opti had a 9 pin JST harness so to save having to undo my hard-wiring I purchased a TCS T1a decoder and slipped that in.

 

No change to behaviour unfortunately. The loco continues to go along nicely, but will the pause for a moment and often (but not always) restart and go about its business.

 

I started to wonder how good my soldering was – I had had to extend the wires from the Opti to reach the motor terminals at the other end of the loco so I went out this morning and picked up a 5” JST harness. The manor was disassembled again and the new harness wired in and the loco rebuilt.

 

The wheel hubs and the chassis block where they bear have been cleaned up with a wire brush in a mini drill, but still no improvement.

 

I’m fairly sure that my track is reasonable, my 0-6-0 panniers and 56XX tank seem to cope with it OK. Even cleaning down my two yard long service track with the track rubber followed by a wipe down with meths still give the Manor trouble.

 

So finally here are the questions:

 

Is the TCS decoder I have just bought just a branded version of the Opti (they look very similar)?

Is it worth buying a more “upmarket” decoder (bearing in mind I will have to cut off the 8-pin making it less use elsewhere)?

If so, is there anything that will fit the 9 pin JST to save yet another re-wire.

Is there a compact decoder available with a stay-alive facility built in (there is very little room)?

What are you guys using successfully in split chassis models?

 

Further advice appreciated.

 

Pete

 

It doesnt sound like a decoder issue to me........and even though you have cleaned everything in the wheels and pick up area, it could mean you have a bad connection somewhere in the electrics.??

[johnb]

The wheel bearings in the earlier split frame Manors and others of similar design are rather prone to wearing quite badly causing the axles to slop around. This can result in a wheel lifting from the track or the contact area within the bearing becoming very minimal.

 

I am wondering if the track level/line in certain places is 'out' just enough for a wheel or wheels to lift. When the loco stops the wheel may well drop and away the loco goes again.

 

Dead frogs won't help the situation but have you looked at the plastic frog itself? These can also wear after significant use, effectively causing a dip in the track, the loco has one wheel on the 'dead' bit and another one or two in the air and with some chips being more sensitive than others to poor contact you get the stop.

 

Concerning the frogs, these wear at the nose, compare an out of the box one with one that has seen use and you will soon see the difference. I once had an exhibition layout where I had to replace the dead frog points with live frog ones after the first half a dozen shows.

 

I've rambled on a bit, but these are areas that have caused me issues over the years

 

HTH

 

John

[skip37216]

The wheel bearings in the earlier split frame Manors and others of similar design are rather prone to wearing quite badly causing the axles to slop around. This can result in a wheel lifting from the track or the contact area within the bearing becoming very minimal.

 

I am wondering if the track level/line in certain places is 'out' just enough for a wheel or wheels to lift. When the loco stops the wheel may well drop and away the loco goes again.

 

Dead frogs won't help the situation but have you looked at the plastic frog itself? These can also wear after significant use, effectively causing a dip in the track, the loco has one wheel on the 'dead' bit and another one or two in the air and with some chips being more sensitive than others to poor contact you get the stop.

 

Concerning the frogs, these wear at the nose, compare an out of the box one with one that has seen use and you will soon see the difference. I once had an exhibition layout where I had to replace the dead frog points with live frog ones after the first half a dozen shows.

 

I've rambled on a bit, but these are areas that have caused me issues over the years

 

HTH

 

John

Hi

Try a better decoder preferably one with some "stay alive" e.g. Lenz Gold or Zimo or TCS. A Lenz Gold with stay alive will enable a loco to run over virtually any uneven or dirty track guaranteed success.  

[Star-rider]

Thanks for the replies. I thought I would give an update as I know many people pick these threads up in the future when they have similar problems.

 

Most of Sunday was again spent with the errant Manor:

 

Watching carefully, I noticed that at one of the areas where hesitation was most common there was a slight but perceptible slowing – some sort of voltage drop I wondered?

 

The area of track was uplifted and additional feeds dropped to the bus. Also, another couple of areas that were prone to hesitation had the rail joiners pinched to make sure there was good conductivity - this improved things greatly but not completely.

 

I’m fairly sure there is nothing fundamentally wrong with my track, 30 out of 32 of my locomotives (mostly fitted with Bachmann 36-553 decoders) are circuiting at a proper cruising speed without problems.

 

The loco and decoder are now again the focus of my attention.

 

Good call on the wheels John, something is definitely making the power / signal go and come back again. All looks OK though, I have tried a bit of WD40 on the axle stubs but no cure there.

 

A premium decoder may be the final solution Skip, but it would mean spending £30+ on a loco that did not cost much more than that new. I would also have to chop the 8 pin plug to wire it in, making it of little use elsewhere in my fleet which is all DCC ready.

 

I will persevere and am sure will eventually find a solution, I’ll let you know.

 

I’m still keen to know the origins of the Gaguemaster Opti decoder though, is it related to the TCS that I have just replaced it with?

 

Pete.

[johnb]

Pete, WD40 won't help conductivity. I once had a Mogul of the same vintage and finally junked it. The wheels slopped around something awful and in the end I gave up.

 

Might be worth a close study of the bushes on the wheel backs/axles where they bear onto the frames, are they scored, or ridged?  Likewise are the bearing faces on the frames smooth and parallel? How sloppy are the wheels?

 

I think that you are narrowing down the issues to the rail/wheel/chassis interface and I suspect the main issue may well be the wheel/chassis area.

 

With regard to chips, I don't think you necessarily need to all that premium a chip. Probably a lowerend/middling one with 'keep alive', the 'keep alive' being the important bit to get over minor interruptions.

 

As for an Opti/TCS relationship I don't know on that I'm afraid. I like and use TCS but have no experience of the Opti.

 

HTH

 

John

[250BOB]

Pete, WD40 won't help conductivity. I once had a Mogul of the same vintage and finally junked it. The wheels slopped around something awful and in the end I gave up.

 

Might be worth a close study of the bushes on the wheel backs/axles where they bear onto the frames, are they scored, or ridged?  Likewise are the bearing faces on the frames smooth and parallel? How sloppy are the wheels?

 

I think that you are narrowing down the issues to the rail/wheel/chassis interface and I suspect the main issue may well be the wheel/chassis area.

 

With regard to chips, I don't think you necessarily need to all that premium a chip. Probably a lowerend/middling one with 'keep alive', the 'keep alive' being the important bit to get over minor interruptions.

 

As for an Opti/TCS relationship I don't know on that I'm afraid. I like and use TCS but have no experience of the Opti.

 

HTH

 

John

 

As John says here Pete...there are just some locos for whatever reason are bad performers, and they will niggle away at you forever.  I have a couple like that......eventually replaced them.

Bob

[Star-rider]

In case anyone picks up this thread in the future, I’ve had a result......

 

I accidentally broke a wire from the plug whilst attempting to fit a Bachmann 36-553 decoder to my new Star yesterday, so with nothing to lose I cut the remaining wires from the plug and hard wired it into the other of my two problem Manors which still had the Opti fitted.

 

The biggest problem is cured, there is no more hesitation apparent – it was instead really jerky at first, but a gradual lowering of the values to CVs 54 & 55 improved this to the stage where I am quite happy with it.

 

It seems that my confidence in the track and chassis was not misplaced and the decoder was this issue. I don’t necessarily want to rubbish the Opti decoder, but it did not work well with this chassis / motor but the Bachmann item has. It all adds to my growing conviction that certain decoders simply do not pair well with certain locomotives.

 

I’ll order another Bachmann decoder and swap it for the TCS item that I recently installed into the other Manor in the hope that this one will also come good.

 

Thanks again to those that have offered suggestions.

 

Pete.