Down_Under Posted January 7, 2015 Share Posted January 7, 2015 Hi All, I came across a couple of photo albums of the Vallis Vale Quarries in the mid to late 60s. https://www.flickr.com/photos/boxbrownie3/sets/72157626030789364/ A mixture of ironstone and Vallis Vale https://www.flickr.com/photos/60790501@N04/sets/72157632648858660/ Couple of Vallis Vale and surrounding Colliery at Radstock http://mickpope.zenfolio.com/p506284746/h235F2F0F#h235f2f0f A little history from the BGS http://www.bgs.ac.uk/mendips/more_info/east_mendip_quarries_history.htm A quick search on here has turned up a blank, so I thought I would share. Would make excellent inspiration for a small layout. Lots of potential - Several types of sentinel, Vanguards, lots of wagons, including, Walrus, HAA (?), 13t Coal wagons, Hudson side tippers (than ran from the quarry face to the crusher) to mention but a few. 100RB Ruston shovels in the pit. Potential for odd loads. A little more background info and nice picture of the crusher http://www.quarryfaces.org.uk/pages/quarryhistory_7.php Questions: Does anyone have a track layout in this era of the crusher engine shed? Does anyone have any more information on this area during the period? Enjoy, James Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Down_Under Posted January 8, 2015 Author Share Posted January 8, 2015 Picture of the 100RB shovel that worked the quarry up until the late 50's before Fosters Yomen took it over and built the input crusher and new plant. http://www.quarryfaces.org.uk/pages/quarryhistory_6.php Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fat Controller Posted January 8, 2015 Share Posted January 8, 2015 At least one HAA is shown in a second photo, coupled to a 21t hopper and hauled by a pair of diesels (Vanguards?). Judging by its condition, it would appear to be in internal use. I wonder when the photos were taken, and how HAAs ended up there- I wouldn't have thought them the ideal wagon to be loaded with stone. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Down_Under Posted January 8, 2015 Author Share Posted January 8, 2015 At least one HAA is shown in a second photo, coupled to a 21t hopper and hauled by a pair of diesels (Vanguards?). Judging by its condition, it would appear to be in internal use. I wonder when the photos were taken, and how HAAs ended up there- I wouldn't have thought them the ideal wagon to be loaded with stone. I have read somewhere (lost the reference), that they used to calcine about 10% of the quarried stone for use in sewage works etc, so possibly they were used to bring coal in for this? I think this comes from the history by the BGS. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fat Controller Posted January 8, 2015 Share Posted January 8, 2015 I have read somewhere (lost the reference), that they used to calcine about 10% of the quarried stone for use in sewage works etc, so possibly they were used to bring coal in for this? I think this comes from the history by the BGS. The one in the 'Internal Use' photo looks to be loaded with stone; perhaps they were from one of the various 'experimental' builds, and were withdrawn early? Certainly, I can't remember talk of any withdrawals (apart from after accidents) until EWS started using the HTAs. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Down_Under Posted January 8, 2015 Author Share Posted January 8, 2015 Seems I have been able to answer my own question on the track layout. Handy document with some good photos here. Even has a little bit of Geology in there if, like me, that's your thing too. http://www.quarryfaces.org.uk/Downloads/DownloadManager3.php?Filename=VallisValeWalk.pdf If the PDF doesn't work, email me and I'll send it. Hudson Tippers were still in action in the 60s. I wonder if they were used to remove the fines from crushing (same with the ex-coal wagons) for backfilling old pits? Fat Controller - I think I was mistaken RE calcining, that ceased in the 1930s (BGS report). I'll still keep looking though. EDIT: I can't seem to establish when they stopped rail haulage out of the quarries - some of the documents seem to suggest 1950, while pictures clearly show the Hudson tippers in use into the 60's. By the late 60s a new central crusher was built, and it seems truck haulage to the crusher was in use. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
PGH Posted January 8, 2015 Share Posted January 8, 2015 I visited the line in September 1966 when Thomas Hill diesels Nos.1 and 2 were working between Whatley Quarry and Hapsford in tandem coupled back to back. Diesel No.3 was shunting at the quarry and steam Sentinel No.1 shunting at Hapsford. Sentinel No.3 was out of use outside the small loco shed at Hapsford. Sentinel No.2 was in a line of redundant stock alongside the main loco shed, apparently damaged earlier that year in an accident and scrapped the following year. Also in that line were the chassis and tank of the Barclay 0-4-0ST MEDWAY, the 200 hp Sentinel and several tip wagons. More tip wagons were stored on the line to the old crushing plant. I noted at the time that the original connection between the line to the loco shed and the line to the crusher was laid the opposite way, i.e. a double reversal was required between Hapsford Yard and the quarry line. It would presumably have been relaid to give a direct connection when the Hapsford crusher ceased working and BR wagons were taken through to Whatley Quarry. I visited again in July 1984, by which time of course the new line had been opened enabling BR locos to work through to the exchange sidings outside the quarry, where 47094 was noted. Thomas Hill diesels No.2, 3 and 4 were in use between the quarry and the exchange sidings, Nos.2 and 3 working in tandem coupled back to back. This section of line had a very sharp 'S' curve where it passed under the road which must have limited the locos to 4 wheel type. The new tunnel under the road eliminating the sharp curves must have been provided before 1987 when the first 6 wheel diesels arrived. The line was described in the Railway Bylines February 1999 issue. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Down_Under Posted January 9, 2015 Author Share Posted January 9, 2015 I did wonder about the track layout, since between the photos and the track plans in post #6 I could not seem to make it work, with some turnouts in the photos not shown on the OS maps, or even the sketch of the layout. So a through line was laid through the Hapsford Yard area. Which in your opinion is the nearest to being correct? James EDIT: Ignoring the last photo of the Sentinel in this lot, some more pictures of the Whatley system around late 70s early 80s. http://railphotoprints.zenfolio.com/p564335467 EDIT2: To my eye it looks like in the 1967 pictures there was a connection as marked in the red dashed lines. And in the photos it is a grassy ramp. And in blue, where there are additional connections in the photos. The main line running through the yard/crusher area would be the re-laid through line? Like this Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fat Controller Posted January 9, 2015 Share Posted January 9, 2015 On the subject of the HAAs; I was looking through David Monk-Steel's book on the history of MGR services, and there is mention of a short-term flow in 1973 from Radstock to Didcot. Perhaps the three wagons photographed together were ones that had been 'red-carded'? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Stationmaster Posted January 9, 2015 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 9, 2015 The key thing I think is to establish when the Hapsford crusher was taken out of use and crushing at Whatley quarry introduced. From that date is presumably - as PGH has said - the time when through working of BR wagons to the quarry began? There were clearly a number of subsequent changes including a re-working of the exchange sidings at Hapsford and the exact point of connection between them and the Frome - Radstock line (which possibly followed a major derailment in the early 1970s?) and ultimately of course the opening of the new through line and two new tunnels which allowed BR locos to work through to the exchange sidings at Whatley and resulted in closure of the connection to the exchange sidings at Hapsford although rail access from the other end was retained for a while. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
PGH Posted January 10, 2015 Share Posted January 10, 2015 The key thing I think is to establish when the Hapsford crusher was taken out of use and crushing at Whatley quarry introduced. From that date is presumably - as PGH has said - the time when through working of BR wagons to the quarry began? This was in 1964 according to the BGS History and seems to coincide with the introduction of diesels and a general upgrading of the railway to accommodate BR wagons "In 1963, the line was improved with additional tunnels, but it was only in the following year that the first comprehensive processing plant was erected at the New Frome (Whatley) Quarry itself, capable of producing 500 tons per hour. This took annual output up to a million tonnes a year, of which about 0.4 million was destined for rail ballast. The area of the former Hapsford plant in Vallis Vale became a marshalling yard." The additional tunnel (actually only one) was provided to replace an existing short tunnel with a larger bore alongside - not to be confused with the two tunnels built later for the 1974 line. The new Thomas Hill diesels were provided, one each, in 1963,1964 and 1965. Also in 1965 Thomas Hill supplied a brake tender, although this didn't seem to be in use on my 1966 visit, perhaps two locos working in tandem were found more suitable. From a rough sketch of Hapsford Yard I made at the time, showing only the main routes and not the actual track layout, the area between the loco shed and crusher is shown thus: Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Stationmaster Posted January 10, 2015 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 10, 2015 This was in 1964 according to the BGS History and seems to coincide with the introduction of diesels and a general upgrading of the railway to accommodate BR wagons "In 1963, the line was improved with additional tunnels, but it was only in the following year that the first comprehensive processing plant was erected at the New Frome (Whatley) Quarry itself, capable of producing 500 tons per hour. This took annual output up to a million tonnes a year, of which about 0.4 million was destined for rail ballast. The area of the former Hapsford plant in Vallis Vale became a marshalling yard." The additional tunnel (actually only one) was provided to replace an existing short tunnel with a larger bore alongside - not to be confused with the two tunnels built later for the 1974 line. The new Thomas Hill diesels were provided, one each, in 1963,1964 and 1965. Also in 1965 Thomas Hill supplied a brake tender, although this didn't seem to be in use on my 1966 visit, perhaps two locos working in tandem were found more suitable. From a rough sketch of Hapsford Yard I made at the time, showing only the main routes and not the actual track layout, the area between the loco shed and crusher is shown thus: Hapsford.jpg No chance of confusing any of the older tunnels with the 1974 ones - the new ones were on a completely different scale! We had a few 'almost touch' moments when doing the clearance tests on the only retained old one (Murdercombe) up near the new exchange sidings which the contractors had supposedly enlarged to full main line clearances but in practice had one or two bits of rock that were a bit on the tight side. I purposely got a Class 46 on the clearance test as we knew locally it was the type that most got into trouble due to its big overhangs in various places. I've got some very poor transparencies of it at the quarry end of Murdercombe tunnel although I really don't know where they are (poor as much as anything because down in that part of the the combe daylight seemed to be something that only arrived occasionally!). Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Down_Under Posted January 14, 2015 Author Share Posted January 14, 2015 To complete the picture a little, I found these pictures of the revised loading arrangements, prior to the remodeling of the entire loading facilities in 1974. (You have to scroll done a little way) http://www.hatspics.co.uk/British%20Railways/british_railways_1972.php All taken in 1972, so after the installation of the in pit mobile crusher, but I imagine the loading layout at the end would be similar to that used in the late 60s. Just that instead of truck haulage out of the pit to the crusher, it was all done by front end loaders. J Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
5050 Posted January 14, 2015 Share Posted January 14, 2015 Interesting sets of photos, thanks for the links. This one caught my eye - https://www.flickr.com/photos/boxbrownie3/5437841263/in/set-72157626030789364 What are the sleepers in the foreground? They look like concrete with two slots cast into them and they also look rather short. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fat Controller Posted January 14, 2015 Share Posted January 14, 2015 Interesting sets of photos, thanks for the links. This one caught my eye - https://www.flickr.com/photos/boxbrownie3/5437841263/in/set-72157626030789364 What are the sleepers in the foreground? They look like concrete with two slots cast into them and they also look rather short. They look like the wartime concrete sleepers used in places like MoD Depots, port sidings etc. There were some very similar ones on the sidings off the Down Fishguard line at North Dock, Llanelli. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
avonside1563 Posted January 14, 2015 Share Posted January 14, 2015 We have some concrete sleepers of a similar pattern at Foxfield that came out of Meaford Power Station. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Stationmaster Posted January 14, 2015 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 14, 2015 They look like the wartime concrete sleepers used in places like MoD Depots, port sidings etc. There were some very similar ones on the sidings off the Down Fishguard line at North Dock, Llanelli. They're very common on industrial and MoD lines I've noticed over the years. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
5050 Posted January 14, 2015 Share Posted January 14, 2015 They're very common on industrial and MoD lines I've noticed over the years. Thanks for the replies. Looks like I'll have to get out more - and take more notice when I do! BTW, where are the ones at Foxfield? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adam Posted January 15, 2015 Share Posted January 15, 2015 I remember that dad and I walked part of the old line years ago - there were quite a number of various types on these concrete sleepers remaining in situ. They were almost certainly a stock item in the catalogues of the likes of T.W. Ward and Robert Hudson. Adam Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Osgood Posted January 31, 2015 Share Posted January 31, 2015 Five delightful colour photographs of locomotives working on this system, credited to David Wigley and Roger Holmes, appear in a new book by Jeffrey Grayer: 'Industrial Railways Of Southern England In Colour' published by Noodle Books. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold RThompson Posted January 31, 2015 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 31, 2015 Five delightful colour photographs of locomotives working on this system, credited to David Wigley and Roger Holmes, appear in a new book by Jeffrey Grayer: 'Industrial Railways Of Southern England In Colour' published by Noodle Books. Thought I was going to see this book for sale today in Stafford exhibition on some of the stands but sadly not so looks like I have to order it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Down_Under Posted September 4, 2016 Author Share Posted September 4, 2016 Hi All, Googled the subject again recently and turned up http://www.quarryfaces.org.uk/siteDetails.php?siteID=3 never came up before. Has a little bit of info on the quarry itself and some pictures of the old plant before and during demolition. Seems there is a prototype for everything - Thomas Hill brake tender conversion http://www.quarryfaces.org.uk/siteImages.php?siteID=3&searchtext=&page=4 James Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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