Diversionary workings and route knowledge

[clarkea1]

Hopefully someone can shed a bit of light on this. Recently I've been out photographing freight workings diverted on Sundays from Margan via Tondu to Bridgend as the direct South Wales main line route from Margam to Bridgend is closed for engineering work at Stormy Down. One such photo, not mine, can be seen here

 

https://www.flickr.com/photos/123410911@N03/16263398815/

 

Now the caption talks about these being the first such diversions for 3 years, which made me wonder how route knowledge is maintained, there being no regular workings over the Margam to Tondu section? How long is route knowledge valid for?

 

Also, does anyone know if this route is to be enhanced as an IEP diversionary route, as various Network Rail plans have suggested over the past few years, or to be closed due to clearance issues with the bridge over the SWML at Margam?

 

Many thanks

 

Alastair

[kenw]

Route knowledge is valid for a maximum 6 months from last being over any route.

This was always the norm, or guidance, in BR days, but is regarded as mandatory now.

Route reviews are given as required to maintain this - I'm actually doing one on Durham Coast next two days, which will involve a run using the 'Thunderbird' loco.

We also have a couple of turns where after a short trip - eg York and back - we then go and review Carlisle on a Northern unit with a cab pass

[clarkea1]

Thanks guys, so I guess the DBS drivers will have needed to refresh - can that be done during their first run over the line after a period of inactivity, or are refreshers done while someone else drives? Sorry if these are silly questions, but it's something I genuinely have no idea on!

 

Alastair

[russ p]

It's done with a relevant route learning cab pass for the TOC who operates the normal train service

[kenw]

 

 - can that be done during their first run over the line after a period of inactivity, or are refreshers done while someone else drives?

 

All depends on how and when it's done -

 

If you're taking a review to retain route knowledge and within the 6 months since last being over a route, and it's a train operated by your own company, then yes you can drive. If renewing or learning a new route a Driver Trainer's required.

 

If using a cab pass for another TOCs service then you NEVER drive

 

Hence for today's review of the Durham Coast, as we don't have our own regular services, our 'Thunderbird' was used running light engine enabling us to drive - which is how you actually learn. Today there was a driver learning the route, I was reviewing, and we also had a Driver Trainer.

 

If within the 6 months of your last working or review over a route then the route knowledge's still valid and a review's not required in order to work over it.... unless you decide you do need one

[clarkea1]

Thanks Russ, but this is what intrigues me. The line from Margam to Tondu has no regular services, and is used onky for diversions for freight when the main line is shut for engineering. Before the current set of diversions, barring the odd railtour the last workings were 3 years back, so how are route refreshes done in this situation?

[clarkea1]

All depends on how and when it's done -

 

If you're taking a review to retain route knowledge and within the 6 months since last being over a route, and it's a train operated by your own company, then yes you can drive. If renewing or learning a new route a Driver Trainer's required.

 

If using a cab pass for another TOCs service then you NEVER drive

 

Hence for today's review of the Durham Coast, as we don't have our own regular services, our 'Thunderbird' was used running light engine enabling us to drive - which is how you actually learn. Today there was a driver learning the route, I was reviewing, and we also had a Driver Trainer.

 

If within the 6 months of your last working or review over a route then the route knowledge's still valid and a review's not required in order to work over it.... unless you decide you do need one

 

Thanks Ken, so I guess the only option for a line which has no regular service is a 6 monthly route learning light engine move?

[russ p]

I'm not familiar with the line,were there any light engine moves before the division? That's another way of route learning. A driver who is still in competency on the route will take up to three other driver's over the route so they can refresh it

[kenw]

Thanks Ken, so I guess the only option for a line which has no regular service is a 6 monthly route learning light engine move?

 

Yes that would seem to be the case.

 

On the Durham Coast (Newcastle - Sunderland - Stockton - Northallerton)  I'm talking of, there are regular services, but the Thunderbird's used in preference for the driving issue.

Although we also review Carlisle using cab passes on Northern to retain route knowledge for emergencies, when diversions are due the Thunderbirds also used.

 

Another method sometimes used is for a late night service to be booked round a diversionary route, eg the 22.00 Kings X - Newcastle is booked to run via Askern / Knottingley. At one time it was booked via Hertford North

 

 

Never say never

you shouldn't fits a lot better

 

Not with the way things are regulated these days, and with liability between different companies involved,

driving a train of another company would now be treated as an extremely serious matter!!

[corneliuslundie]

So when a line is mothballed and then brought back into use some years later, eg Heathfield recently, there can be no revenue earning trains until route learning has been done. But all the drivers will be in the same boat, with none being passed for the route and able to provide a lead. Is that correct? It makes responding quickly to intermittent traffic flows a bit difficult.

[roythebus]

It may be so, but rules is rules and these days it IS "more than my job's worth" to break them.

 

The nearest experience I have of this was with the KESR and the extension from Bodiam to Junction Road. The DMU was used as a route learning train; the driver was one who had worked engineering trains as the new section was being laid, so he knew the route, and his knowledge was given to the other drivers, Same on the Robertsbridge bit, drivers for that special service had to walk the route to learn it!

[Griffin Road]

If a line is rebuilt ( like the Edinburgh to gala route ) can the drivers who have progress with the track laying trains then do the route training ?

 

Mike b

[Wheatley]

So when a line is mothballed and then brought back into use some years later ... makes responding quickly to intermittent traffic flows a bit difficult.

 

If it's been out of use for a few years route knowledge will be the least of your problems getting it back into use quickly, half of it is likely to have been weighed in by the metal fairies in the meantime.

 

If necessary (if they can't get a ride on one of the engineering trains) some senior-ish driver type will walk it first.

[big jim]

If a line is rebuilt ( like the Edinburgh to gala route ) can the drivers who have progress with the track laying trains then do the route training ?

 

Mike b

Thats what i'm wondering with the oxford to bicester branch, even if you have previous over there with say chiltern on the bicester shuttles when the line is re-introduced it will be a totally different beast,

 

Once its completed the only people that will have been over there will be the likes of me and a couple of others so i'm wondering if they will use us (ok hoping me in particular) to route conduct the first chiltern road learning "instructor drivers" along there so once they sign it they can take over the road learning

 

I'm hoping they do that as i'm in a position to pass people out on lines and chiltern wise i also know their units etc, kind of hoping i get to do high speed testing along there with a 67 or 168!

 

In the past when i've learned a route that i sign that has been resignalled we have sat in a classroom watching a dvd presentation which has all the old signals blurred out and computer generated signals in the relevent places on the route, in the case of moor st bay platforms the whole thing became computer generated once the 'train' diverged from the existing mainline into the then non existant bays!!

[The Stationmaster]

Normal way we used to do it in the past with a new line is for a route learning job to go out witha  Traction Inspector (who nowadays should assess the route to establish what needs to be learnt, how many trips would be required and so on).  Then once you've got an Inspector (or Senior driver or two) sorted you can run route learning trips for every other Driver and Giard who needs them.

 

What might happen in early days with a new route is that enough folk haven't learnt it so then you put Conductors on to see them over the road until they're ready to sign it for themselves.  In the first few weeks of teh new branch to Whatley Quarry in the 1970s I used to spend my late afternoons/evenings conducting Gurards and teaching them the ground frames - would have been a good little earner if I'd been paid overtime (which I didn't get by then).

[Talltim]

Wouldnt fancy being the first senior driver to walk this route when it was new...

http://www.goworldtravel.com/mar05/Aerial-view-IP-on-The-Nulla.jpg

[russ p]

Years ago when the Redmire branch reopened for MOD traffic,I was taken up the branch on a Wickham railmotor to refresh the route

[TheSignalEngineer]

Normal way we used to do it in the past with a new line is for a route learning job to go out witha  Traction Inspector (who nowadays should assess the route to establish what needs to be learnt, how many trips would be required and so on).  Then once you've got an Inspector (or Senior driver or two) sorted you can run route learning trips for every other Driver and Giard who needs them.

 

What might happen in early days with a new route is that enough folk haven't learnt it so then you put Conductors on to see them over the road until they're ready to sign it for themselves.  In the first few weeks of teh new branch to Whatley Quarry in the 1970s I used to spend my late afternoons/evenings conducting Gurards and teaching them the ground frames - would have been a good little earner if I'd been paid overtime (which I didn't get by then).

I used to do quite a few trips like that on my projects. Usually a walk through with the local Traction Inspector and a couple of drivers, then a cab ride with them to check out the visibility and focus of the signals was correct. Surprising how often a small tree had grown on the bank between the signal sighting meeting and commissioning.