jamessolomon Posted January 20, 2015 Share Posted January 20, 2015 Got this KATO GP7 8409 last year 2nd hand with some boxcars and a caboose from a model rail shop in Calgary when dad was out there for work this year im planning to get a grain elevator and some grain wagons but my question is what type of grain wagons would have run with this loco was it 4 bay covered hoppers or 3 bay cylindrical ones or something else. Pic of the GP7 enclosed below Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glorious NSE Posted January 20, 2015 Share Posted January 20, 2015 In 1954 grain would more likely be being moved in 40' boxcars. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jamessolomon Posted January 20, 2015 Author Share Posted January 20, 2015 In 71 it was still in that scheme then in late 70s it changed to the CP red scheme so was thinking early 70s sorta stock Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
doctor quinn Posted January 20, 2015 Share Posted January 20, 2015 Hi James, An excellent choice of loco & roadname! The loco is in the block lettering which was applied to GP7s repainted (or newly painted) until Feb 10 1955 according to Rail Canada Vol3. As you say it was repainted in 1971 although a few locos in the block scheme lasted into the early 70's for instance GP9 8635 at Calgary in 1974 still in block lettering. http://www.trainweb.org/oldtimetrains/photos/cpr_diesel/GP9.htm Canadian grain shipping underwent a great deal of change in the 70's but for most of Canada's history grain from elevators was shipped in 40' boxcars with timber or heavy paper doors inside the sliding doors. At the time rate for grain shipments were supressed by the government so the railways were unwilling to invest heavily in new cars that would see only a few weeks use each year. http://www.sgcc.gov.sk.ca/history/ The bigger cylindrical hoppers ("Trudeau Hoppers") modelled by Intermountain began to be introduced in the early 70's to address this problem, the Government also paid for upgrading some prairie branch lines and refurbishing old 40' boxcars for lines whose rail was too light for the new cars. CP did operate shorter 4 bay cylindrical hoppers and an earlier type of flat-sided 4 bay hopper as far as I know they were not used extensively for grain loading, they also acquired a few US built cars for grain traffic later on. So 40' boxcars would be most typical possibly with brand new 4 bay cylindricals. Check out http://freight.railfan.ca/for examples (the links to pictures don't seem to work when I try to embed them) If you are looking for an overview of Canadian railways, I would recommend "SIgnatures in Steel" by Greg McDonnell. All the best - hope this helps Nick Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glorious NSE Posted January 20, 2015 Share Posted January 20, 2015 For early 70s I would suggest mostly 40' single door steel boxcars still, the first 3 bay cylindricals were delivered I think about 1972 - but were then built well into the 1980s, so if you're careful on what liveries you buy then mixing in a couple of them is possible. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adrian Wintle Posted January 20, 2015 Share Posted January 20, 2015 CP started getting 4-bay cylindrical hoppers (in Canadian Pacific livery) in about 1968. Probably black with Canadian Pacific in white script. http://www.intermountain-railway.com/n/html/65127.htm These would have been followed in the mid-'70s by black with the multimark. http://www.intermountain-railway.com/n/html/65115.htm The first Canadian Wheat Board cylindrical hoppers were 1972-73, in the brown Government of Canada scheme (all the other Canadian/Alberta/Saskachewan schemes are late '70s/early '80s or later). If you get any, make sure they have CPWX numbers not CNWX ones. This livery: http://www.intermountain-railway.com/n/html/65120.htm As noted above, most grain was moved in 40' boxcars. A lot of branches really couldn't handle loaded covered hoppers, and the elevators were set up for boxcar loading. Edit: Note that we are talking about cylindrical hoppers with trough hatches for grain service. Cylindrical hoppers with one round hatch per bay pre-date the trough hatch versions in CP service, but they were used for things like potash, not grain. Adrian Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
w124bob Posted January 20, 2015 Share Posted January 20, 2015 I picked up some years ago a photo album by Greg Mcdonnell "Wheat Kings" Vanishing landmarks of the Canadian Prairies(Boston Mills Press), It's still listed via Amazon. It's a gold mine of photos in and around the elevators of the prairies, at least a couple of shots dated 1996 show 40ft boxcars still in use all in CP red complete with van. 1977 dated shots show mixed liveires of CP script style plus a few action red cars. So for your period 40footers would be most likely. The Kato/Atlas geep runs very well with Zimo or Lenz decoders,I have 2. PS second the comment regarding Signature in Steel. http://www.okthepk.ca/dataCprSiding/articles/200908/grain.htm http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/search?index=books&linkCode=qs&keywords=9781550464238 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
doctor quinn Posted January 20, 2015 Share Posted January 20, 2015 Greast Lakes Models website has some pics of the grain doors as well as their model versions http://www.greatlakesmodels.com/Product%20Detail%20Pages/HO%20Scale%20Product%20Detail%20Pages/020%20002%20810%20006%20HO%20Scale%20Boxcar%20Grain%20Panel%20Door.htm Nick Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adrian Wintle Posted January 20, 2015 Share Posted January 20, 2015 Here is a video of a grain elevator in operation, including loading boxcars. https://www.nfb.ca/film/grain_elevator Adrian Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adrian Wintle Posted January 20, 2015 Share Posted January 20, 2015 Here are the series and build dates for the CNWX/CPWX covered hoppers. http://canadianfreightcargallery.ca/cgi-bin/displayrailway.pl?o=wheatboard#covhop Alberta cars http://canadianfreightcargallery.ca/cgi-bin/displayrailway.pl?o=alberta Saskachewan cars http://canadianfreightcargallery.ca/cgi-bin/displayrailway.pl?o=sask Top level of the site http://canadianfreightcargallery.ca/ Adrian Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium BR60103 Posted January 21, 2015 RMweb Premium Share Posted January 21, 2015 Political background on the freight rates for shipping grain. http://www.thecanadianencyclopedia.ca/en/article/crows-nest-pass-agreement/ The little violets in the spring smell sweet, sweet, sweet; The little birdies in the trees sing sweet, sweet, sweet; But the damnedest words I ever heard were "Wheat, wheat, wheat". attributed to an eastern Canadian Member of Parliament. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
John_Hughes Posted January 21, 2015 Share Posted January 21, 2015 Yes, certainly 40' boxcars for the most part, with the odd 36-footer thrown in. I remember seeing several 36' outside-braced wooden Wellsville Addison and Galeton boxcars (reporting marks WAG) in grain trains as well when that shortline was busy in the car leasing business; they stood out in the consist because the roof-line was so much lower than everything else! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jamessolomon Posted March 29, 2015 Author Share Posted March 29, 2015 Cheers guys defiantly got some of the later Canadian cylindrical ones comming and possibly some boxcars with the grain logos on them to mix it up just gotta wait a bit longer for the box containing my goodies to return on the company jet at the end of the lease for pickup by dad then i can post pics of my booty also got another loco in the box too dunno what asked for an F7 so i shall see whats in there Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jamessolomon Posted April 30, 2015 Author Share Posted April 30, 2015 Will post pics tonight of the haul since its arrived also got some Atlas model trucks without trailers so was just going to throw this out there does anyone know if they ship grain sacks by road in would it be either a box trailer with them on pallets or something like a curtain side trailer on pallets or is it totally different Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adrian Wintle Posted April 30, 2015 Share Posted April 30, 2015 Will post pics tonight of the haul since its arrived also got some Atlas model trucks without trailers so was just going to throw this out there does anyone know if they ship grain sacks by road in would it be either a box trailer with them on pallets or something like a curtain side trailer on pallets or is it totally different Road shipments of grain would be in bulk, either in dedicated bulk trailers for highway use or loose in a truck with a grain dump box (see the truck in the NFB video I linked above) for farm to elevator delivery. Adrian Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave1905 Posted April 30, 2015 Share Posted April 30, 2015 Typically grain shipments would be either boxcars or covered hoppers, but not both. They used two different loading methods (boxcar chutes were lower and just went into the doorway on the side of the car, covered hopper chutes had to clear the top of a higher car and reach the center of the track) and two different unloading methods (boxcars would dump to the side, covered hoppers, between the rails). Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dibber25 Posted April 30, 2015 Share Posted April 30, 2015 Hi James, An excellent choice of loco & roadname! The loco is in the block lettering which was applied to GP7s repainted (or newly painted) until Feb 10 1955 according to Rail Canada Vol3. As you say it was repainted in 1971 although a few locos in the block scheme lasted into the early 70's for instance GP9 8635 at Calgary in 1974 still in block lettering. http://www.trainweb.org/oldtimetrains/photos/cpr_diesel/GP9.htm Canadian grain shipping underwent a great deal of change in the 70's but for most of Canada's history grain from elevators was shipped in 40' boxcars with timber or heavy paper doors inside the sliding doors. At the time rate for grain shipments were supressed by the government so the railways were unwilling to invest heavily in new cars that would see only a few weeks use each year. http://www.sgcc.gov.sk.ca/history/ The bigger cylindrical hoppers ("Trudeau Hoppers") modelled by Intermountain began to be introduced in the early 70's to address this problem, the Government also paid for upgrading some prairie branch lines and refurbishing old 40' boxcars for lines whose rail was too light for the new cars. CP did operate shorter 4 bay cylindrical hoppers and an earlier type of flat-sided 4 bay hopper as far as I know they were not used extensively for grain loading, they also acquired a few US built cars for grain traffic later on. So 40' boxcars would be most typical possibly with brand new 4 bay cylindricals. Check out http://freight.railfan.ca/for examples (the links to pictures don't seem to work when I try to embed them) If you are looking for an overview of Canadian railways, I would recommend "SIgnatures in Steel" by Greg McDonnell. All the best - hope this helps Nick Yes, apart from Colin Gifford's British books, Signatures in Steel is probably the best railway book ever. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jamessolomon Posted May 3, 2015 Author Share Posted May 3, 2015 Here they are I know the last one is labeled up for salt but it's a hopper and could be used for grain on somebody's layout Between the 2 Canadian grain hoppers the wheels where ever so slightly wider diameter and ran up on peck points guide rails bit so I pilfered some from a odd one out boxcar and it runs smoothly now. Anyone know any good number transfers for the grain hoppers might change a 6 to a 7 on one of them to make em different road numbers on the Canadian ones Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
shortliner Posted May 4, 2015 Share Posted May 4, 2015 Your easiest way would be a tiny drop of white from a Pentel/Pilot correction pen or white paint using an ultrafine 0.7mm uniPOSCA pen - see ebay - to convert a six to an eight or a one to a four. If no joy there try Pullingers (google) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adrian Wintle Posted May 4, 2015 Share Posted May 4, 2015 The first car is highly unlikely to be in grain service. It has separate top hatches rather than trough hatches and it is a short 2-bay car. These are usually used for high-density loads like cement. The Canada cars are the traditional 'Trudeau' hoppers, although those are lettered for CN use (CNWX rather than CPWX). If you use Shortliner's idea, I'd change a 6 to an 8 as that would keep it in the same series of cars. The last car also has separate hatches and (even without the lettering) likely wouldn't be in grain service. Adrian Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium BR60103 Posted May 5, 2015 RMweb Premium Share Posted May 5, 2015 The morning goods train through Guelph usually has a bunch of grain cars on it, It also has a lot of salt cars since one end of the line is at one of the biggest salt deposits in the country. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jamessolomon Posted June 7, 2015 Author Share Posted June 7, 2015 Bid on some more over at eBay and was wondering did CP and CN grain hoppers ever run together in a consist Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adrian Wintle Posted June 7, 2015 Share Posted June 7, 2015 Bid on some more over at eBay and was wondering did CP and CN grain hoppers ever run together in a consist Not usually. In fact, the Canada, Saskatchewan, and Alberta cars had different reporting marks* depending on which railway they were allocated to, and the fleets were kept separate. *with an N for CN and a P for CP. Adrian Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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