luckymucklebackit Posted January 20, 2015 Share Posted January 20, 2015 Following the discussion on Andrew's Wverley West Thread, though it might be a good idea to have a thread discussing Scottish First Generation DMU formations and history. I'll kick off with some links to the Scotrail Wiki, which has some great info already, not sure if you need to log into that site, but if you do it is free!! Class 101 http://www.scot-rail.co.uk/page/Class+101 Class 104 http://www.scot-rail.co.uk/page/Class+104 Class 105 http://www.scot-rail.co.uk/page/Class+105 Class 107 http://www.scot-rail.co.uk/page/Class+107 Class 116 http://www.scot-rail.co.uk/page/Class+116 Class 117 http://www.scot-rail.co.uk/page/Class+117 Class 122 http://www.scot-rail.co.uk/page/Class+122 Class 126 http://www.scot-rail.co.uk/page/Class+126 There are a few gaps in the information, and a few classes missing. I will have a trawl through my archive and see what I can find. Jim Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
souwest Posted January 20, 2015 Share Posted January 20, 2015 Oh happy memories. The question is how many smoke units would you need to model them in their latter days? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Torr Giffard LSWR 1951-71 Posted January 20, 2015 Share Posted January 20, 2015 Hi Jim, 'BR North of the Border' by L. Nixon & P. J. Robinson has images of: class100 on Tayport - Dundee services in 1966; hybrid single car unit + 2 class 101 style cars in 1980 on an Edinburgh - Dundee working; Dave Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjkerr Posted January 20, 2015 Share Posted January 20, 2015 Continuing the conversation regarding the use of Driving TrailersThere were numerous two car sets allocated to Scotland, but by 1984 they were reduced as routes closedBy 1986, 54072 was the last Class 101 at Ayr, whilst the four based at Haymarket were stored (retained for spares)I can remember 54072 appearing a few times, and was restricted to use in a 6 car set on routes out of Glasgow CentralHowever, even this proved to be a problem the following year and was often pressed into service (until additional replacement Class 120 units arrived)When this occured there was a notice placed in both cabs that in the event the unit was operating as a 3 car unit, then only had one powered car and was restricted to Glasgow Central - East Kilbride / Barrhead services only, any other use required approval to be confirmed I distinctly remember this occuring as it ended up being allocated to a Kilmarnock service, and I stood outside the cab and pointed this out to the driver (initially appeared angry that I had pointed this out)After some phonecalls he came back, confirmed a unit swap would be required, and turned out he was glad I had pointed this outIronically, the following week it was put into store, seeing the end of the use of Driving Trailers Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
luckymucklebackit Posted January 20, 2015 Author Share Posted January 20, 2015 Not the best scan, but this is Preston on 12th July 1993 and these are the first batch of class 117s heading north after refurbishment at Tyseley to Haymarket to work the Fife services pending introduction of the 2nd generation units, they are as follows 117 301 51353 59505 51395 117 306 51369 59521 51411 117 308 51371 59509 51413 Jim Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sulzer27jd Posted January 20, 2015 Share Posted January 20, 2015 Purely from memory as I have no records as such, but my home depot was Dundee and ran a number of DMU services. Very often there were no sets, just a collection of bits put together. Different classes in different liveries all running together. Sometimes with a single car unit added. I suppose the great advantage of the multiple unit is that one car can be separated out and replaced in order to keep the rest of the set (as such) running. The depot crew locally certainly made the most of it. It would make for a most interesting model. John Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Russ (mines a pint) Posted January 20, 2015 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 20, 2015 Purely from memory as I have no records as such, but my home depot was Dundee and ran a number of DMU services. Very often there were no sets, just a collection of bits put together. Different classes in different liveries all running together. Sometimes with a single car unit added. I suppose the great advantage of the multiple unit is that one car can be separated out and replaced in order to keep the rest of the set (as such) running. The depot crew locally certainly made the most of it. It would make for a most interesting model. John And touching on what Mj kerr said as well by the later parts of the 80's and particularly immediately prior to Ayrshire electrictrification there were alot of 'cobbled together' sets and substitutions you could get 3 classes or liveries within one 3 car set think there was such thread on rmweb in previous version of forum - will try find some pics. other oddities were 104 cars painted into blue/grey to fit in other sets when most of their class were still in overall blue an effort surely wasted once strathclyde pte 101/107 and 105 cars in allover blue got mixed amongst them? For Starters ex Buxton 104 101 centre car - we can have a guessing game with the rear car https://www.flickr.com/photos/killie65/2785391848/ https://www.flickr.com/photos/killie65/2785390976/ Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Russ (mines a pint) Posted January 20, 2015 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 20, 2015 This one is def on the wishlist lol: https://www.flickr.com/photos/killie65/2784535905https://www.flickr.com/photos/killie65/2784535321 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Russ (mines a pint) Posted January 20, 2015 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 20, 2015 Aforementioned repainted 104 - what looks like a substitute for a class 120 powercar. note 104xxx set number - how was this arrived at cos its the brake car?? https://www.flickr.com/photos/killie65/2785390976 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve-e Posted January 20, 2015 Share Posted January 20, 2015 Inverness had class 120's for Aberdeen services. Best I can do for a photo is this one with the 120 creeping in on a photo of 47464.. 47464 + Class 120 Inverness Shed 22/02/1979 Hope its of some use. Steve Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Waverley47708 Posted January 20, 2015 Share Posted January 20, 2015 An excellent article I found some time ago on DMUs around Edinburgh. http://www.railcar.co.uk/topics/edinburgh.html Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Russ (mines a pint) Posted January 20, 2015 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 20, 2015 An excellent article I found some time ago on DMUs around Edinburgh. http://www.railcar.co.uk/topics/edinburgh.html Thanks for that : particularly http://www.railcar.co.uk/jpg/108/sm01.jpg - I was unaware that class 108 had made regular runs in Scotland other than cross-border services from Carlisle/Newcastle Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjkerr Posted January 21, 2015 Share Posted January 21, 2015 Aforementioned repainted 104 - what looks like a substitute for a class 120 powercar. note 104xxx set number - how was this arrived at cos its the brake car?? The units were reasonably accurate prior to the Ayr depot fire ScotRail had a number of semi-permanent Class 104 units (and 101, 107, and 116) The main issue was that the urban and inter-urban allocated DMUs were due to be replaced by (Class 150/2) Sprinters by 1986 Due to this delay the order for Class 150/2 Sprinters was changed to Class 156, and didn't enter full service until 1989 This 3 year delay resulted in a cascade of redundant stock to ScotRail, as long-term maintenance ended and reliability had become an issue The issue was compounded by the suspension of the Class 107 fleet However, after the Ayr depot fire the Class unit pretty much became redundant as reliability became an issue and sets changed at very short notice As an example one set could be changed up to 6 times in one week! As a result many units only carried the last three digits, and sometimes they even carried different unit number at each end In general the lowest numbered driving coach was the set number, so in most cases this was the Class 101 This could then result in a Class 104 unit carrying the set number for a Class 101 set The only unit I can remember not following this classification was a Class 120, which was always the centre car The driving cars kept changing at very short notice, and again as the driving cars often carried redundant set numbers this was quite noticeable I can remember several occasions where the drivers didn't even bother looking at the set numbers to confirm it was the set they were supposed to be driving, as they knew it was likely to be incorrect If the engines were running, then it was good to go... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium keefer Posted January 22, 2015 RMweb Premium Share Posted January 22, 2015 iirc the class 100s (DMBS/DTCL) were allocated to scotland new and particularly worked around edinburgh eg. corstorphine branch, transferred away c.1968-ish mix'n'match not a new thing, a pic from brian daniels of a lash-up at dundee in 1979: https://farm3.staticflickr.com/2330/5808808267_1bbd0ea7f7_b.jpg (101 DMBS, 101/111 TRBSL, 122 DMBS): i'd read before that the 3 remaining buffet cars allocated to dundee were actually cl.111, but longworth book has them as 101? presumably in the late 70s-early 80s they were just used as TS? ref: the previous discussion on driving trailers etc. had a quick look at a 1975/76 WTT and there are quite a few DMU services marked as 'twin' or 'triple'. the 'twin' services included edin-kirkcaldy or cardenden/cowdenbeath or dundee-arbroath. the thing is, no mention is made of these being 'power twin' or 'power/trailer'. I think it's because i was aware of/grew up with units from the late70s/early 80s, i'd always assumed that units were at least 3-car (discounting the bubblecars). Had a quick look at longworth and it has a fair few cl.101 and 105 DTCL and 3 cl.122 DTS allocated in scotland until about '78 (a very few hang on until 1982) Also noticed (from pics admittedly) that from late-70s, any TCL or DMCL loses their 1st class stripes and are just reclassed all 2nd class - i'm not sure if even dundee services would've still retained 1st class, probably not. i wonder then if the last DMU services to carry any 1st class would be the 120s (abdn-inv) and 126s (ayr-glasgow)? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium keefer Posted January 22, 2015 RMweb Premium Share Posted January 22, 2015 couple of belters for ye, first is bog standard 3-car blue 101 in edinburgh, 1978: https://www.flickr.com/photos/tutenkhamunsleeping/5660050165/in/set-72157624987872649 (incidentally look how many 'no-smoking' signs there are!) 9-car ECS at dysart in 1979: https://www.flickr.com/photos/punkrocksuperstar63/3600996456/in/set-72157628006379556 notice the middle set in the last link is like the set in the first link - 2 cars have blue window frames, 1 car unpainted frames. was this a works trait? 3-car 101 passing sinclairtown in '79 - when did 'GG' or 'GG Trans-Clyde' first appear? presumably 1979 to tie in with the SPT area which now included the new 'argyle line' etc. https://www.flickr.com/photos/punkrocksuperstar63/3599426206/in/set-72157617014610729 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Russ (mines a pint) Posted January 22, 2015 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 22, 2015 couple of belters for ye, first is bog standard 3-car blue 101 in edinburgh, 1978: https://www.flickr.com/photos/tutenkhamunsleeping/5660050165/in/set-72157624987872649 (incidentally look how many 'no-smoking' signs there are!) 9-car ECS at dysart in 1979: https://www.flickr.com/photos/punkrocksuperstar63/3600996456/in/set-72157628006379556 notice the middle set in the last link is like the set in the first link - 2 cars have blue window frames, 1 car unpainted frames. was this a works trait? One the three car sets (in that flickr set not one of the ones you linked) has barred droplights in the doors- on just one car too though that might be a different picture - looks to be within confines of Waverley (station) though? In the earlier days the Gloucester units later known as class 100 did a lot of good work around the Peebles loop, got lots of pics of these in books re Waverley (route) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sulzer27jd Posted January 23, 2015 Share Posted January 23, 2015 Can a single car unit be a set? Dundee units with Tayway branding - remember when it was a good idea to integrated public transport? J Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium keefer Posted January 23, 2015 RMweb Premium Share Posted January 23, 2015 was that a regular bubblecar service, dundee - arbroath? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjkerr Posted January 23, 2015 Share Posted January 23, 2015 Can a single car unit be a set? Yes, most only showed the 3 digits which they inherited from use at other depots and continued to use them Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
luckymucklebackit Posted January 23, 2015 Author Share Posted January 23, 2015 One the three car sets (in that flickr set not one of the ones you linked) has barred droplights in the doors- on just one car too though that might be a different picture - looks to be within confines of Waverley (station) though? Hi Russ - found that photograph and checked my copy of the DMU bible (Longworth) and found that the loading coach SC50147 was transferred from South Gosforth in 1978, a bit of detective work on Flickr looking at other Tyneside DMUs showed most 101s to have barred droplights, so there must have been a route in that area with limited clearances. I remember the 108s working out of Carlisle on the Maryport and Carlisle services had barred droplights due to restricted clearances on that route. Jim Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Waverley West Posted January 23, 2015 Share Posted January 23, 2015 It's maddening now when I look back on it, but I didn't take much notice of DMUs back in the 70s and 80s (still don't now mind!) and I certainly only very rarely photographed them. Here are a few mixed formations taken at Kinghorn. It would have been late 70s I guess. Apologies for the poor quality of the photos. A blue/grey 105 running with white/blue stripe 101 centre car and a blue/grey 101 driving trailer, attached to what looks like another 101 unit behind. A 3-car 101 with a blue centre car... And another mixed livery 101... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Russ (mines a pint) Posted January 23, 2015 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 23, 2015 Blue & Grey isn't a livery you associated with Cravens units! I wonder if Bachmann will ever do one? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sulzer27jd Posted January 24, 2015 Share Posted January 24, 2015 was that a regular bubblecar service, dundee - arbroath? If I remember correctly, they did the "all stops", including Balmossie Halt and Golf Street Halt. They were also quite regular additions on three car units or to make up sets. Some of those services may have terminated at Carnoustie, as there were certainly some that used the cross-over to the north of the station. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
MRDEEDIESEL Posted January 26, 2015 Share Posted January 26, 2015 Was a regular user of The Dundee -Arbroath DMU services.(From Balmossie and Broughty)Loved the 101's and the Bubblecars (used to ride in the Guards compartment when they were on the busier services) and remember being on Cravens units too.Took very few photos of them though cause they played 2nd fiddle to The Deltics and the "40's". I still have the Tayway poster taken at Dundee diesel depot with the Buses standing beside a 101.A brilliant concept the Tayway ticket-sadly scrapped. Of course my favourite train at that time was the last all stopping train between Arbroath and Dundee which was loco hauled with classes 25,26,27,40&47 involved.-Happy Days! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sulzer27jd Posted January 26, 2015 Share Posted January 26, 2015 Of course my favourite train at that time was the last all stopping train between Arbroath and Dundee which was loco hauled with classes 25,26,27,40&47 involved.-Happy Days! The east bound service left Dundee around 5 and originated at GQS. It was the running in turn for locos coming out of Springburn and would often produce unexpected motive power. When it did they often still smelt of paint. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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