Andy Y Posted February 1, 2015 Share Posted February 1, 2015 http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-birmingham-31046970 A West Midlands railway line which has been closed to passengers for 50 years could be reopened in a £20m scheme. Dudley Council and Warwick Manufacturing Group (WMG) - part of the University of Warwick - plans to reconnect Dudley to the national rail network and build a "light rail innovation hub" in the town centre. Of course it's a do-able scheme; something which should never have been cast aside before. But, I do wonder about the architects' visuals. Is it a station, an engineering depot or somewhere where a bloke in a lab coat is about to get run over? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold gwrrob Posted February 1, 2015 RMweb Gold Share Posted February 1, 2015 Not Snow Hill is it, a bit too sterile for a station but nice to see it reopened. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sp1 Posted February 1, 2015 Share Posted February 1, 2015 Very interesting as I live in Dudley! I think they should go further and extend it to the Merry Hill Shopping Centre (which I hate!) - the track bed is still there, and I'm sure it would remove a lot of the traffic congestion in the area. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
peter220950 Posted February 1, 2015 Share Posted February 1, 2015 They could even think about using the stretched/uprated Class 139 Evo 2's! http://www.parrypeoplemovers.com/pdf/NL69.pdf - (Page 4) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Siberian Snooper Posted February 1, 2015 RMweb Premium Share Posted February 1, 2015 Very interesting as I live in Dudley! I think they should go further and extend it to the Merry Hill Shopping Centre (which I hate!) - the track bed is still there, and I'm sure it would remove a lot of the traffic congestion in the area. And then on to Stourbridge. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
'CHARD Posted February 1, 2015 Share Posted February 1, 2015 I reckon the visual is of the Light Rail Innovation Hub at the station site. I applaud any form of regeneration around this region but I foresee a number of issues here. Who are the technical investors and bringers of intellectual capital and transport demand modelling nous? The eventual strategic importance of the OWW/ SS route from Stourbridge to Walsall leading to its reinstatement; this surfaces biannually on NR congestion-busting schemes and strategic freight routes avoiding Birmingham. There are already countless innovators trying to break the mould of low cost Light Rail, Ultra Light Rail, and Tram-Train, with various (extremely protracted) schemes taking forever to bear fruit (Sheffield Tram-Train is one. Elsewhere on here we've discussed Trampower's various schemes, and the birth pains of the PPM). What does this 'Innovation Centre' think it can add where the likes of the Light Rail Transit Association has thus far failed to make inroads. Cost of entry to the market and the scale of potential schemes mitigates against economies of scale, even the likes of Stadler and CAF struggle to quote cost effective compliant equipment, so I don't see a cottage industry (see Trampower, ibid) launching from here despite everyone's good intentions. Why create another Metro system independent of the existing one, which has so far failed to make a solid case to extend along this self same corridor. The article looks to me like well-intended kite-flying on a slow news day. To nick the famous catchphrase of Dragons Den that I'm presently watching, 'I don't see that this is a viable business that I could invest in, so for that reason, I'm out.' Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sp1 Posted February 1, 2015 Share Posted February 1, 2015 And then on to Stourbridge. My ancestor owned some of the land that Stourbridge Junction was built on! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sp1 Posted February 1, 2015 Share Posted February 1, 2015 I reckon the visual is of the Light Rail Innovation Hub at the station site. I applaud any form of regeneration around this region but I foresee a number of issues here. Who are the technical investors and bringers of intellectual capital and transport demand modelling nous? The eventual strategic importance of the OWW/ SS route from Stourbridge to Walsall leading to its reinstatement; this surfaces biannually on NR congestion-busting schemes and strategic freight routes avoiding Birmingham. There are already countless innovators trying to break the mould of low cost Light Rail, Ultra Light Rail, and Tram-Train, with various (extremely protracted) schemes taking forever to bear fruit (Sheffield Tram-Train is one. Elsewhere on here we've discussed Trampower's various schemes, and the birth pains of the PPM). What does this 'Innovation Centre' think it can add where the likes of the Light Rail Transit Association has thus far failed to make inroads. Cost of entry to the market and the scale of potential schemes mitigates against economies of scale, even the likes of Stadler and CAF struggle to quote cost effective compliant equipment, so I don't see a cottage industry (see Trampower, ibid) launching from here despite everyone's good intentions. Why create another Metro system independent of the existing one, which has so far failed to make a solid case to extend along this self same corridor. The article looks to me like well-intended kite-flying on a slow news day. To nick the famous catchphrase of Dragons Den that I'm presently watching, 'I don't see that this is a viable business that I could invest in, so for that reason, I'm out.' Spoilsport! Hat.... Coat..... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
'CHARD Posted February 1, 2015 Share Posted February 1, 2015 Spoilsport! Hat.... Coat..... Like I said, I'm all for these things, especially around my home area: I'm passionate about the West Midlands. But we need to see the unique ingredients which can make the scheme scale those obstacles, and whose are the credible 'voices off' that have provided sufficient confidence for the press release to have been issued taking this public. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nile_Griffith Posted February 1, 2015 Share Posted February 1, 2015 Sorry, but I'm with the "Kite Waving" opinion. this all does rather smack of "Hype" in the hoe that some private equity company might be in the frame of mind to put a few quid in, or gain the interest of one of the growing number of philanthropic organisations. In the real world. I don't see a business case for for the location or the potential service. As for creating a centre for very light rail innovation, Dudley?????? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Stationmaster Posted February 1, 2015 RMweb Gold Share Posted February 1, 2015 What exactly is 'very light rail' - is it a tram, is it narrow gauge, is it lightweight vehicles, or is it just a name? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edwin_m Posted February 1, 2015 Share Posted February 1, 2015 What exactly is 'very light rail' - is it a tram, is it narrow gauge, is it lightweight vehicles, or is it just a name? Seems to be closest to Ultra Light Rail, which is supposed to be a smaller, simpler (probably slower) and cheaper version of trams. Various people have dipped a toe over the years but the only operational route that could qualify is the Parry People Move at nearby Stourbridge. In my view, the cost goes down but so do the speed and the capacity and it becomes difficult to justify even a reduced investment with the number of passengers it can carry. Some radical innovation is needed to make it a significant contender, so an an innovation centre could be a possible source. The fact the PPM hasn't spread beyond Stourbridge, despite much promotion over the years, illustrates how limited the concept is at the moment. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sp1 Posted February 1, 2015 Share Posted February 1, 2015 Sorry, but I'm with the "Kite Waving" opinion. this all does rather smack of "Hype" in the hoe that some private equity company might be in the frame of mind to put a few quid in, or gain the interest of one of the growing number of philanthropic organisations. In the real world. I don't see a business case for for the location or the potential service. As for creating a centre for very light rail innovation, Dudley?????? I must admit I'm biased, but surely Dudley is the centre of the universe...... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
'CHARD Posted February 1, 2015 Share Posted February 1, 2015 I must admit I'm biased, but surely Dudley is the centre of the universe...... Well, if the list of bands I've seen at the old JB's is anything to go by, I'm on your page! EDIT: saw BLUR at JB's when She's So High had just been released, which makes the gig one of their first outside of Essex or of the members' respective Unis. The night was legendary for the fact that someone had parked a Vauxhall Chevette outside the venue done up like the Ford Galaxie known as Ford Timelord in the KLF's hit 'Doctorin' The Tardis.' Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold TheSignalEngineer Posted February 1, 2015 RMweb Gold Share Posted February 1, 2015 The article looks to me like well-intended kite-flying on a slow news day. True, I posted an article about it from the Wolverhampton Express and Star on 1st December last year. http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/93247-sedgeley-junction-revisited-another-dudley-tram-proposal/&do=findComment&comment=1685600 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium melmerby Posted February 2, 2015 RMweb Premium Share Posted February 2, 2015 I thought the track bed is reserved for future Midland Metro extensions? Keith Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sp1 Posted February 2, 2015 Share Posted February 2, 2015 Well, if the list of bands I've seen at the old JB's is anything to go by, I'm on your page! EDIT: saw BLUR at JB's when She's So High had just been released, which makes the gig one of their first outside of Essex or of the members' respective Unis. The night was legendary for the fact that someone had parked a Vauxhall Chevette outside the venue done up like the Ford Galaxie known as Ford Timelord in the KLF's hit 'Doctorin' The Tardis.' Modesty forbids me from saying that I played there myself..... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sp1 Posted February 2, 2015 Share Posted February 2, 2015 I thought the track bed is reserved for future Midland Metro extensions? Keith They ought to hurry up then before the roots of the trees growing on Park Head Viaduct destroy the only route over the canal! Edit to add: always thought that would have been a good scheme anyway, but why couldn't it link in with this new project? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nile_Griffith Posted February 2, 2015 Share Posted February 2, 2015 Modesty forbids me from saying that I played there myself..... Played, engineered and ran away screaming.......... when I could peel my feet of the beer encrusted floor!!!!!! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium melmerby Posted February 2, 2015 RMweb Premium Share Posted February 2, 2015 They ought to hurry up then before the roots of the trees growing on Park Head Viaduct destroy the only route over the canal! Edit to add: always thought that would have been a good scheme anyway, but why couldn't it link in with this new project? Still shown on the MM website as a proposed route. Wednesbury - Dudley via trackbed - out onto road through Dudley town centre - back on trackbed other side of tunnel and onward towards Merry Hill with more street running there. IMHO a better option could have been to re-link track to Stour Valley line at Dudley Port and run a heavy rail service from New St - Stourbridge via Dudley. This could be linked to some other service to make another "Cross - City" line. The biggest disadvantage being the old Dudley station site is not in the town centre and new buildings have almost obliterated the trackbed of the link at Dudley Port! Keith Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheesysmith Posted February 2, 2015 Share Posted February 2, 2015 When talking about light rail, I'm always surprised no one has proposed converting the st Ives brach to something akin to the people mover, but in longer, able to multi up for peak summer season, versions. It would save having a DMU stuck at the end of a main line, with all the moves required for servicing etc. Or what about a tram style system like Manchester? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium melmerby Posted February 2, 2015 RMweb Premium Share Posted February 2, 2015 When talking about light rail, I'm always surprised no one has proposed converting the st Ives brach to something akin to the people mover, but in longer, able to multi up for peak summer season, versions. It would save having a DMU stuck at the end of a main line, with all the moves required for servicing etc. Or what about a tram style system like Manchester? Busway? Ducking, coat on, running! Keith Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Richard E Posted February 2, 2015 RMweb Premium Share Posted February 2, 2015 Keith, not quite - guided busway Dons tin hat and grabs anorak whilst breaking into a sprint .... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium pete_mcfarlane Posted February 2, 2015 RMweb Premium Share Posted February 2, 2015 Dudley already has a perfectly good tramway and trolley bus system! Seems to be closest to Ultra Light Rail, which is supposed to be a smaller, simpler (probably slower) and cheaper version of trams. Various people have dipped a toe over the years but the only operational route that could qualify is the Parry People Move at nearby Stourbridge. In my view, the cost goes down but so do the speed and the capacity and it becomes difficult to justify even a reduced investment with the number of passengers it can carry. Some radical innovation is needed to make it a significant contender, so an an innovation centre could be a possible source. The fact the PPM hasn't spread beyond Stourbridge, despite much promotion over the years, illustrates how limited the concept is at the moment. The only reason it got picked for the Stourbridge branch is that it was a cheap way of freeing up a class 153 to work elsewhere. It also begs the question of how much savings are to be had in buying cheap trams, I'm guessing that the bulk of the costs on any light rail scheme are going to be spent on the infrastructure and not the vehicles - buying PPMs isn't going to help you save money diverting water mains and so on. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edwin_m Posted February 2, 2015 Share Posted February 2, 2015 Dudley already has a perfectly good tramway and trolley bus system! The only reason it got picked for the Stourbridge branch is that it was a cheap way of freeing up a class 153 to work elsewhere. It also begs the question of how much savings are to be had in buying cheap trams, I'm guessing that the bulk of the costs on any light rail scheme are going to be spent on the infrastructure and not the vehicles - buying PPMs isn't going to help you save money diverting water mains and so on. Indeed. Even buying two class 139s was cheaper than a class 153. The track was already there and for a route that short the small size and low speed of the vehicles doesn't matter. Not a set of circumstances that is likely to be replicated anywhere else. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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