Build dates (to the actual day) for locomotives built October 1940

[gc4946]

I want to model a loco which was completed as close as possible to--or the exact date--when my mum was born, for my collection, having done the same for myself.

 

On the BR Database, http://www.brdatabase.info/ I searched for locos built in October 1940.

 

Only one of them listed has a full date, a LNER V2, 4853, dated 12 October 1940.

 

Others recorded as built during that month:

 

GWR 2227

          2228

          2229

          2230

          3827

 

LMS  WD 70413 (later 48289), works no. 6993 (Beyer Peacock)

         8293, works no. 7037 (Beyer Peacock)

 

Does anyone have any more information (from manufacturers' records) about the exact dates in October when they were officially recorded as built ?

[gc4946]

I also realise that the railway magazines at the time might not have published this data as it was considered "sensitive information".

 

However I've found a Beyer-Peacock works list online (for the 8Fs) :

 

http://www.beyerpeacock.co.uk/loco%20list/list31_8.PDF

 

Order no. 1545, works nos. 6990-7004, for 15 2-8-0, 1940-1, 4'-8½" Ministry of Supply
Order no. 1546, works nos. 7005-19, 7034-43, for 25 2-8-0, 1941-2, 4'-8½" Ministry of Supply

 

However, no dates for individual locos are shown.
 

[asmay2002]

Only one of them listed has a full date, a LNER V2, 4853, dated 12 October 1940.

 

Railway additions and deletions from stock were often only recorded as happening in the week ending on a particular day.  Given that 12/10/1940 was a Saturday the day that it actually entered service might have been any day that week.  A week ending date may be as close as you will get.

[gc4946]

As Beyer-Peacock's order books still survive, it looks like a visit to the Manchester Museum of Science and Industry will be required as they hold the company's records.

 

On the other hand I don't know how detailed are Swindon Works' records regarding building dates.

[EddieB]

BP works no.7037 was recorded as having a builder's plate giving a date of "1941".  (These plates were cast at different times, so might vary from the order books).

[gc4946]

Preliminary enquiries with the Manchester Museum of Science and Industry about the Beyer-Peacock records for completion of locos indicated that they cannot be dated any more specifically to within a year, or a month, at best.

 

I'll now have to check with NRM's Search Engine library/archive to see if they can provide anything more specific, especially if any LMS engine record cards for the 8Fs (8226-63, 8286-300) which were temporarily taken into their stock in 1940-41 prior to being used by the War Department still survive http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LMS_Stanier_Class_8F

 

However Search Engine's open only from Wednesday to Saturday and they'll require at least a week's advance notice if I have to consult archival material.

 

(I've now emailed the NRM and am waiting for their reply)

[kevinlms]

I think the dates you'll find are generally 'dates they entered traffic' rather than build dates.

 

Thinking about it, a new locomotive would have to be properly tested before going into traffic. Almost certainly in some instances, a loco would fail the first time, perhaps because of a boiler fault, or injectors no good, for a steam locomotive.

 

I used to buy Rail magazine, up to the 1990s & it used to be full of corrections from the previous issue, with the REAL dates & which locos got rebuilt, in what order (different to the proposed order, and the revised order, etc, etc). 37 8XX & 37 9XX ring bells. I gave up in the end, as to me pointless over information, especially when it went monthly to fortnightly.

 

I accept that others see this differently to me.

[Forester]

Agree with Kevin.

 

At first glance the recording of dates in and out of traffic look at best haphazard and at worst often in conflict with other records and photographic evidence..

But in the real world these machines needed constant adjustment, particularly newly built or after major overhaul. Running in turns were not about showing off bright paintwork but serious fault-finding and adjustment trials which often resulted in repeated return to the works.

 

When was it built? - You may as well ask for the date your house was built. Was it when the last tile was fitted to the roof, the front door lock fitted, the heating system commissioned, the fence erected, the first furniture arrived? My house was never completed ........

 

The dates recorded certainly represent the event sufficient for all normal purposes in the real world. 

But looking for a loco built on a particular day, as if it just rolled off some Honda production line, is not going to be productive.

[gc4946]

I own a model class 47, the prototype of which entered BR service (that I now realise) was based on a week ending date (my date of birth fell on a Saturday) as reported on www.class47.co.uk/

 

It only seemed natural to me to find out if there was similar data in connection with any locos that were completed and/or entered service on my mother's date of birth.

 

However, some works records survive which have been able to give specific dates on an aspect of construction, see the M&GN Society's history of its J15 http://www.mandgn.co.uk/page.php?pid=35

"it left Stratford Works on 22 February 1912" (a Thursday - according to Wikipedia).

 

If I can't find any exact dates in connection with my current query, I'll settle for that, but for main line locos at least I've attempted to find out to the best of my ability.